Forum Sponsors

All Round Renovation

Glazer Delmar

www.takeflightacademy.co.uk

Advertise here

The East Dulwich Forum
Would you recommend your East Dulwich doctor, dentist or butcher?
Goto Page: Previous1234Next
Current Page: 3 of 4
messageRe: attempted muggging (in the Unicorn, Rye Lane) - Lounged
Posted by DulwichFox August 30, 03:03PM

There is a difference between making improvements to an area
for the benefit of local residents and Gentrification

Gentrification is NOT for the local residents. Its about making an area for outsiders to visit.
It is a form 'Social Cleansing'

messageRe: attempted muggging (in the Unicorn, Rye Lane) - Lounged
Posted by Loutwo August 30, 03:11PM

Indeed. Gentrification is a way to force normal locals out, and attract a artsy/wealthy crowd looking for a bargain. These people want to shape areas like East Dulwich to suit their taste, they have no intention of becoming part of the existing community. Same is true of Peckham. Look at some of the earlier comments on this very thread, newbies to the neighbourhood talking about businesses they go to in Peckham and take their friends and family too from wealthy rural localities. They only mention places that sprung up to satisfy their needs. This stuff wasn’t put their for the whole community.

It’s hilarious reading back over this thread. Gentrifiers don’t even see the irony in the fact that they are actually part of the problem. They just see themselves as liberal down with the poor crusaders looking for an edgy neighbourhood to boast about with their wealthy friends and family.

Louisa.

messageRe: attempted muggging (in the Unicorn, Rye Lane) - Lounged
Posted by ianr August 30, 03:28PM

> It’s hilarious reading back over this thread.

What are you on?

messageRe: attempted muggging (in the Unicorn, Rye Lane) - Lounged
Posted by Loutwo August 30, 03:42PM

Fire, ianr, I’m on fire!

Louisa.

messageRe: attempted muggging (in the Unicorn, Rye Lane) - Lounged
Posted by binkylilyput August 30, 09:28PM

Yeah but Primark, Iceland, ASDA, the great Chinese supermarket, sports shops, Superdrug, Argos, fruit/ veg stalls, Peacocks, butchers, various African food shops, the kebab place I forget the name of, nail bars, hair dressers. Specsavers, Costa.....the list goes on....and most of these I like and use.

Loutwo what’s wrong with these place on RYE LANE (not the rest of Peckham) and why are they not accessible to all?

Are some working classes more working class than others by any chance?! I’d hate to think you harbour views that you have to be the “right” type of working class

messageRe: attempted muggging (in the Unicorn, Rye Lane) - Lounged
Posted by sheff August 30, 10:34PM

Spot on and deftly put...

binkylilyput Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah but Primark, Iceland, ASDA, the great Chinese
> supermarket, sports shops, Superdrug, Argos,
> fruit/ veg stalls, Peacocks, butchers, various
> African food shops, the kebab place I forget the
> name of, nail bars, hair dressers. Specsavers,
> Costa.....the list goes on....and most of these I
> like and use.
>
> Loutwo what’s wrong with these place on RYE LANE
> (not the rest of Peckham) and why are they not
> accessible to all?
>
> Are some working classes more working class than
> others by any chance?! I’d hate to think you
> harbour views that you have to be the “right” type
> of working class

messageRe: attempted muggging (in the Unicorn, Rye Lane) - Lounged
Posted by Loutwo August 31, 09:58AM

binkylilyput Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah but Primark, Iceland, ASDA, the great Chinese
> supermarket, sports shops, Superdrug, Argos,
> fruit/ veg stalls, Peacocks, butchers, various
> African food shops, the kebab place I forget the
> name of, nail bars, hair dressers. Specsavers,
> Costa.....the list goes on....and most of these I
> like and use.
>
> Loutwo what’s wrong with these place on RYE LANE
> (not the rest of Peckham) and why are they not
> accessible to all?
>
> Are some working classes more working class than
> others by any chance?! I’d hate to think you
> harbour views that you have to be the “right” type
> of working class

How do you come to that strange conclusion? Why would you assume that from what I have said so far? Strange response. BTW it took me to have to question people BEFORE anyone responded with actual names of OTHER independent/chain stores
In the Peckham area. Before that, it was just discovered places by trendy types who came here post 2013. You might want to re-read my post above, rather than try to accuse me of something more sinister which anyone who knows me would verify is utter BS. Or maybe you’re just doing it to goad me because you actually support gentrification in Peckham?

Louisa.

messageRe: attempted muggging (in the Unicorn, Rye Lane) - Lounged
Posted by binkylilyput August 31, 11:14AM

But you’ve not answered the question? What’s wrong with these places on Rye Lane and what makes them not accessible to all?

Rye Lane has so far retained a lot of long-standing character and so continued to cater for local communities (which is your understandable and very well trodden gripe against gentrification).....but still not right?

messageRe: attempted muggging (in the Unicorn, Rye Lane) - Lounged
Posted by Loutwo August 31, 12:49PM

Come off it. These new businesses in Peckham aren’t part and parcel of the existing community. They’re new businesses aimed at a specific demographic who have only very recently moved into the neighbourhood. You only have to read previous comments on this thread.

What’s this character that Rye Lane has kept? Do you know how gentrification works? LL retained much of its character to begin with, as I’m sure Shoreditch and Dalston did 20 years ago. But how long will that last? The whole point of these new businesses is not to blend in, but to change the character and demographic of the place and then house prices go up (which they’re already doing) and before you know it we have another Northcote Road on our hands. Let’s not pretend this isn’t actually happening.

Louisa.

messageRe: attempted muggging (in the Unicorn, Rye Lane) - Lounged
Posted by binkylilyput August 31, 04:48PM

Ok you’ve made your view known about the businesses surrounding Rye Lane

What’s wrong with Rye Lane though?

messageRe: attempted muggging (in the Unicorn, Rye Lane) - Lounged
Posted by diable rouge August 31, 04:58PM

Loutwo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Come off it. These new businesses in Peckham
> aren’t part and parcel of the existing community.
> They’re new businesses aimed at a specific
> demographic who have only very recently moved into
> the neighbourhood.

This is what always happens when new communities are formed, the same thing happened when the Afro-Caribbean community first rocked up. One (wo)man's gentrification is another's ghettoisation. You reek of double standards Lou...

messageRe: attempted muggging (in the Unicorn, Rye Lane) - Lounged
Posted by ed_pete August 31, 07:36PM

What Rye Lane need is a Body Shop, Lush or a Space NK. Something for everyone.

messageRe: attempted muggging
Posted by spark67 September 01, 08:45AM

This is absolutey not the case, been on a many late nigh on rye lane... take your hysteria else where

messageRe: attempted muggging (in the Unicorn, Rye Lane) - Lounged
Posted by Peckhampam September 01, 11:34AM

Loutwo
Of course new comers want the businesses that cater to their needs. Every new demographic that has ever moved in to an area has wanted that. Why should ED/Peckham be any different? And no business can cater for the whole community...it is too varied.....that's why it is good to have so many different kinds of business. So I am at a loss to know what it is you are wanting. my guess would be you are harking back to a past some 50/60 years ago when London was culurally uniform and divided into class ghettos , a past that I am very glad we have left behind.

messageRe: attempted muggging (in the Unicorn, Rye Lane) - Lounged
Posted by uncleglen September 01, 01:57PM

Primark? Better quality and prices in the charity shop or eBay auctions

messageRe: attempted muggging (in the Unicorn, Rye Lane) - Lounged
Posted by Loutwo September 01, 02:39PM

Peckhampam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Loutwo
> Of course new comers want the businesses that
> cater to their needs. Every new demographic that
> has ever moved in to an area has wanted that. Why
> should ED/Peckham be any different? And no
> business can cater for the whole community...it is
> too varied.....that's why it is good to have so
> many different kinds of business. So I am at a
> loss to know what it is you are wanting. my guess
> would be you are harking back to a past some 50/60
> years ago when London was culurally uniform and
> divided into class ghettos , a past that I am very
> glad we have left behind.

At least back then working people could buy in London. Nowadays people who grew up around here have to move away because house prices are ridiculous. The class divide is bigger today than it has ever been. The London of 30 years ago was far more diverse and affordable than the capitalist hell hole that’s been created today.

Louisa.

messageRe: attempted muggging (in the Unicorn, Rye Lane) - Lounged
Posted by diable rouge September 01, 03:34PM

Not many working people bought houses back then, and a lot moved out because of the shortage of housing due to the war and general slum-like conditions. Working people buying their own homes only became popular when they could buy their council owned property under Thatcher's Right to Buy. Ironically that started the cycle of houses becoming unaffordable for future generations...

messageRe: attempted muggging (in the Unicorn, Rye Lane) - Lounged
Posted by ruffers September 02, 03:55PM

Good point. People moving in can only by what's for sale after all.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was september 03, 10:08am by ruffers.

messageRe: attempted muggging (in the Unicorn, Rye Lane) - Lounged
Posted by pk September 02, 04:18PM

Loutwo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The London of 30 years ago was
> far more diverse and affordable than the
> capitalist hell hole that’s been created today.
>
> Louisa.

when you see the place that you live as a hellhole, surely it's time to leave?

messageRe: attempted muggging (in the Unicorn, Rye Lane) - Lounged
Posted by Loutwo September 02, 04:55PM

pk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Loutwo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The London of 30 years ago was
> > far more diverse and affordable than the
> > capitalist hell hole that’s been created today.
> >
> > Louisa.
>
> when you see the place that you live as a
> hellhole, surely it's time to leave?

Come Brexit I think a lot of people will be leaving. Maybe that’s the only way to force property prices down.

Louisa.

messageRe: attempted muggging (in the Unicorn, Rye Lane) - Lounged
Posted by Hemingway September 03, 09:58AM

Loutwo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Peckhampam Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Loutwo
> > Of course new comers want the businesses that
> > cater to their needs. Every new demographic
> that
> > has ever moved in to an area has wanted that.
> Why
> > should ED/Peckham be any different? And no
> > business can cater for the whole community...it
> is
> > too varied.....that's why it is good to have so
> > many different kinds of business. So I am at a
> > loss to know what it is you are wanting. my
> guess
> > would be you are harking back to a past some
> 50/60
> > years ago when London was culurally uniform and
> > divided into class ghettos , a past that I am
> very
> > glad we have left behind.
>
> At least back then working people could buy in
> London. Nowadays people who grew up around here
> have to move away because house prices are
> ridiculous. The class divide is bigger today than
> it has ever been. The London of 30 years ago was
> far more diverse and affordable than the
> capitalist hell hole that’s been created today.
>
> Louisa.

Lots of working class Londoners couldn't wait to 'get out' 30 or even 20 years ago. "What do you want to buy a house in this shithole for?" was my working class neighbour's first words to me in the early 90s SE22

messageRe: attempted muggging (in the Unicorn, Rye Lane) - Lounged
Posted by pk September 03, 12:56PM

Hemingway Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Loutwo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > The London of 30 years ago was
> > far more diverse and affordable than the
> > capitalist hell hole that’s been created today.
> >
> > Louisa.
>
> Lots of working class Londoners couldn't wait to
> 'get out' 30 or even 20 years ago. "What do you
> want to buy a house in this shithole for?" was my
> working class neighbour's first words to me in the
> early 90s SE22

And ‘white flight’ is clearly shown in the last census data

But data also suggests that the areas of most exodus aren’t those with most ‘gentrification’ but rather higher levels of immigration, look at Barking and Dagenham for example

Make of that what you will

messageRe: attempted muggging (in the Unicorn, Rye Lane) - Lounged
Posted by Loutwo September 03, 01:24PM

Not true. ‘White flight’ is not a racial issue, it’s a class based issue. Poorer people of all racial backgrounds are being forced to leave working class neighbourhoods around inner London because prices are just ridiculous and the number of social housing opportunities are now heavily restricted.

The very people who are most “open minded” and enjoy “edgy and multicultural” neighbourhoods, are in effect turning those places into bland homogenised unaffordable ghettos.

Louisa.

messageRe: attempted muggging (in the Unicorn, Rye Lane) - Lounged
Posted by ed_pete September 03, 03:00PM

Loutwo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pk Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Loutwo Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > The London of 30 years ago was
> > > far more diverse and affordable than the
> > > capitalist hell hole that’s been created
> today.
> > >
> > > Louisa.
> >
> > when you see the place that you live as a
> > hellhole, surely it's time to leave?
>
> Come Brexit I think a lot of people will be
> leaving. Maybe that’s the only way to force
> property prices down.
>
> Louisa.

Leaving where - where is this mythical supply of housing to which they are going to move ?

messageRe: attempted muggging (in the Unicorn, Rye Lane) - Lounged
Posted by ed_pete September 03, 03:02PM

Loutwo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> The very people who are most “open minded” and
> enjoy “edgy and multicultural” neighbourhoods, are
> in effect turning those places into bland
> homogenised unaffordable ghettos.
>
> Louisa.

And where are these people supposed to live ?

messageRe: attempted muggging (in the Unicorn, Rye Lane) - Lounged
Posted by BrandNewGuy September 03, 03:15PM

You might want to watch this excellent little film (and the others in the series) about gentrification / regeneration in Peckham. It gives a more nuanced view from long-term residents than some of the ones on display on this thread:

[www.youtube.com]

messageRe: attempted muggging (in the Unicorn, Rye Lane) - Lounged
Posted by alice September 03, 07:47PM

Ideally they would choose not to live in developments built on bulldozed social housing.

ed_pete Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Loutwo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > The very people who are most “open minded” and
> > enjoy “edgy and multicultural” neighbourhoods,
> are
> > in effect turning those places into bland
> > homogenised unaffordable ghettos.
> >
> > Louisa.
>
> And where are these people supposed to live ?

messageRe: attempted muggging (in the Unicorn, Rye Lane) - Lounged
Posted by Sue September 04, 12:01AM

BrandNewGuy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You might want to watch this excellent little film
> (and the others in the series) about
> gentrification / regeneration in Peckham. It gives
> a more nuanced view from long-term residents than
> some of the ones on display on this thread:
>
> [www.youtube.com]


Thanks for that, BNG, I just watched it.

Very heartwarming.

messageRe: attempted muggging (in the Unicorn, Rye Lane) - Lounged
Posted by JohnL September 04, 12:22PM

alice Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ideally they would choose not to live in
> developments built on bulldozed social housing.

The Heaton Arms was under my block 10 years ago and I feel guilty about that sometimes.

It is one of the successful developments though IMHO.

messageRe: attempted muggging (in the Unicorn, Rye Lane) - Lounged
Posted by Dogkennelhillbilly September 10, 09:55AM

Every few months I sign back in to the forum and see it's the same 2-3 nobbers dominating conversation with their bonkers opinions, quixotic punctuation and chronic desire to make themselves the centre of attention. It's such a shame as it drags down the quality of the forum as a whole.

Rye Lane is a bit of a dump. It's dirty (the plastic hair extensions blowing like tumbleweed outside the line of hair shops is particularly rough), with bad street furniture, and the buildings are for the most part grotty. However, it's got some useful shops, some nice coffee places etc, and good transport. The newly reopened Iceland is great- presumably.ably those who moaned at great length about the Lordship Lane Iceland closing will be heading there now.

It seems like there's a cluster of buildings near the Nags Head (by the Afghan kitchen and the big fish shop) that are getting ready for redevelopment. If that's done well, it would change the whole street. Equally, TfL should imho knock down the crappy arcade that fronts Peckham Rye station and replace it with a plaza that could still have market stalls. Equally the shopping centre could be knocked down and rebuilt with far more retail and housing - if we don't get density on sites like that, then where are all these new homes going to be built?

It's inevitable that fashionable and innovative start ups (cafes, arts, small businesses) are usually going to locate in low rent neighbourhoods - you don't try stuff out at Mayfair rents. It's also inevitable that when the majority of real property is controlled by the private sector, when a neighbourhood improves, rents will go up, and poorer people and less profitable businesses will end up leaving. I don't know what the answer there is - rent controls? Nationalising shopping centres? Deliberately leaving some areas to be shitty so they're cheap? Trying to make sure none of the areas of London are shitty?

Goto Page: Previous1234Next
Current Page: 3 of 4

Back to top of page
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
Donate                   Terms of use                  Help & FAQs                   Advertise               RSS rss feed               Copyright 2006 - 2018 East Dulwich Forum