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messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by Captain Marvel 03 December, 2019 13:14

I don't know why you get so het up, the old duffer is prolly going to win, Brexit will be averted and we will all be able to take a cheap train ride together into a Trident-free future with free broadband and care homes. That should make you happy... or will you still think we're on the brink of the apocalypse?

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by dulwichbloke 03 December, 2019 13:23

Loutwo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do the Monster Raving Looney Party still field
> candidates?
>
> Louisa.

I don't think they are in Dulwich and West Norwood. The closest thing to the Monster raving Loony Party would be Corbyn, but I appreciate you may be put off by the Labour party's racism (not to mention their manifesto promising "free" unicorns and unicorn accoutrements).

If you are an ABC voter, the Green Party would be your best bet, although an extremely long shot.

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by JohnL 03 December, 2019 14:01

Now this one was a car crash - Pat Mountain - the latest UKIP leader

Crash: "Mountain presented a copy of the Ukip manifesto, which she couldn't actually reveal the contents of because it's not being launched until Friday."

Bang: On Tommy Robinson "Because of his association with **other** racist parties, our constitution says that he cannot be permitted to join us"

Wallop: On Racism "Have you got any black candidates?" "Erm, no...I think we've got an Indian?"

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by cella 03 December, 2019 17:54

Captain Marvel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't know why you get so het up, the old duffer
> is prolly going to win, Brexit will be averted and
> we will all be able to take a cheap train ride
> together into a Trident-free future with free
> broadband and care homes. That should make you
> happy... or will you still think we're on the
> brink of the apocalypse?

Yes of course - for most people in this country the world is potentially going to get worse on every level for the forseeable future. Maybe you think you are somehow protected from any of what may come but this is delusional at best.

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by Captain Marvel 03 December, 2019 18:18

'Most people' hahahaha

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by dulwichbloke 03 December, 2019 18:33

Captain Marvel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 'Most people' hahahaha

You are laughing at the statement of opinion, but I suspect it was intended to be stated with complete unequivocal conviction as a FACT!

That's actually the amusing part.

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by dulwichbloke 03 December, 2019 18:34

JohnL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Now this one was a car crash - Pat Mountain - the
> latest UKIP leader
>
> Crash: "Mountain presented a copy of the Ukip
> manifesto, which she couldn't actually reveal the
> contents of because it's not being launched until
> Friday."
>
> Bang: On Tommy Robinson "Because of his
> association with **other** racist parties, our
> constitution says that he cannot be permitted to
> join us"
>
> Wallop: On Racism "Have you got any black
> candidates?" "Erm, no...I think we've got an
> Indian?"

'Pat Mountain' - is that name for real John? It sounds like a character off Father Ted.

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by diable rouge 03 December, 2019 22:26

The previous UKIP leader was a certain Dick Braine...

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by cella 04 December, 2019 01:00

dulwichbloke Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Captain Marvel Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 'Most people' hahahaha
>
> You are laughing at the statement of opinion, but
> I suspect it was intended to be stated with
> complete unequivocal conviction as a FACT!
>
> That's actually the amusing part.


You and Marvel appear to be natural uncaring bedfellows. Assuming you are not trolling as you've both been on here so long then, even if you don't have partners, you may have children, family etc who will definitely be affected by the policies of a potential right wing government and they certainly won't thank you.

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by stepdown 04 December, 2019 09:51

cella Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe you think you are somehow protected from any
> of what may come but this is delusional at best.

Looking at the proposed changes to higher rate tax from the two major parties, you could actually stand to gain significantly from a "right wing" government. Admittedly, that does require you believing what's in the manifestos.

I am inclined to agree with you that most would be worse off as a result of these policies, which must mean there are huge swathes of the country voting against their best interest. I won't be voting for Christmas personally, but I will admit I'm starting to struggle to sympathise with the turkeys who are.

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by cella 04 December, 2019 10:58

I agree. It's very hard to understand why people are even considering giving their vote to Johnson. Assume they mainly want to "get Brexit done" believing that this is the end rather than the start of many years of negotiations or a very tough leave with no deal and without thinking of all the other ramifications for most people. A lot of these voters are, as you say, voting against their own interests. Depressing.

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by rahrahrah 04 December, 2019 12:57

I think a lot of people feel that things have declined and that their voices have been ignored. This is why the 'take back control' slogan was so successful. The referendum felt like a once in a lifetime opportunity to really effect change and radically disrupt what was perceived by some to be a broken system. Now they feel that the same political forces that have ignored them for so long are conspiring to stop things changing.
I don't think many people are really that interested in the detail - it's more emotional than that. This was their chance to shake everything up, to stand up to an indifferent political class based in London and again, they're being silenced.
Obviously its all going to end badly.

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by fishbiscuits 04 December, 2019 13:29

Sometimes worth stepping outside of the echo chamber, and remembering that huge swathes of the country are deeply conservative. Pro-Brexit, anti-immigration, right-wing, opposing increases in taxation and spending.

The majority of people are inherently selfish and short-sighted. They'll vote for what they think is best for them and their family in the short term.

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by rahrahrah 04 December, 2019 14:42

I don't know about that. I think most people vote in what they believe to be the best interests of the country. There are those that will vote in their narrow, short term interests, but they're a minority. The biggest problem is that people don't understand / aren't interested in the detail. They base their opinions on a few sensational stories and soundbites and use it to interpret their lived reality - which for many outside of London and the SE is one of things declining.

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by fishbiscuits 04 December, 2019 15:15

rahrahrah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think most people vote in what they believe to be the best interests of the country.

I really think you give the public more credit than they deserve!

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by JohnL 04 December, 2019 15:42

dulwichbloke Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JohnL Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Now this one was a car crash - Pat Mountain -
> the
> > latest UKIP leader
> >
> > Crash: "Mountain presented a copy of the Ukip
> > manifesto, which she couldn't actually reveal
> the
> > contents of because it's not being launched
> until
> > Friday."
> >
> > Bang: On Tommy Robinson "Because of his
> > association with **other** racist parties, our
> > constitution says that he cannot be permitted
> to
> > join us"
> >
> > Wallop: On Racism "Have you got any black
> > candidates?" "Erm, no...I think we've got an
> > Indian?"
>
> 'Pat Mountain' - is that name for real John? It
> sounds like a character off Father Ted.

They're saying many thought she was a Catherine Tate character.

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by JohnL 04 December, 2019 16:43

Strange how Corbyn mentioned he watches the Queens speech in the morning and everybody says Liar - she doesn't do it until 3:00PM, then he says oh you mean the 3:00PM recording.

I wonder if he's trying to be clever and a rebel (maybe someone he spends Xmas with VPN'd to Australia and he saw it early)

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by dulwichbloke 04 December, 2019 17:21

Or maybe he's a doddery old fool who makes stuff up and when called on it either doesn't have the honesty just to admit he did so, or the intelligence to talk his way out of it without digging himself a deeper hole?

Sometimes it's the obvious answer which is the correct one! I suspect the tongue in cheek speculation about Oz is probably not the explanation!

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by dulwichbloke 04 December, 2019 17:23

diable rouge Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The previous UKIP leader was a certain Dick
> Braine...

Brilliant! Good spot!

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by JohnL 05 December, 2019 08:36

dulwichbloke Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Or maybe he's a doddery old fool who makes stuff
> up and when called on it either doesn't have the
> honesty just to admit he did so, or the
> intelligence to talk his way out of it without
> digging himself a deeper hole?
>
> Sometimes it's the obvious answer which is the
> correct one! I suspect the tongue in cheek
> speculation about Oz is probably not the
> explanation!

I've never watched the Queen in years (I might if it was live just to see). Don't know why it's made such a big thing of, If the BBC put on last years speech repeated would we even notice.

Edit: It's actually when Tom Harwood suggests that his family group round the TV at 3:00PM that I realise how different his life must be to mine.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2019:12:05:08:38:28 by JohnL.

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by diable rouge 05 December, 2019 09:13

It used to be a big thing getting massive audiences, but last year only around 6.5 million watched it, or 1 in 10 of the population. So the right wing press trying to paint Corbyn as somehow being disloyal and out of sync with the UK public simply isn't true...

ETA: Heaven forbid had Corbyn decided to lie to Her Maj in order to unlawfully shut down parliament



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2019:12:05:09:23:05 by diable rouge.

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by stepdown 05 December, 2019 09:30

diable rouge Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So the right wing press trying to paint Corbyn as
> somehow being disloyal and out of sync with the UK
> UK public simply isn't true...

I took the criticism more to be about the lie. Dishonesty seems par for the course now but he's clearly not as good at it, you need to be far more vague if you're going to make nonsense up on the spot... perhaps he's following the "painting buses" route to distract from the antisemitism narrative?

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by diable rouge 05 December, 2019 09:59

Perhaps. I'm all for exposing politicians of all hues for their lies, they should never become normailsed like they have. Johnson and his henchmen are fibbing on an unprecedented industrial scale yet the right wing press ignores them. This 'dossier' by old school right wing Tory journalist Peter Oborne bucks the propaganda trend... [boris-johnson-lies.com]

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by malumbu 05 December, 2019 13:05

Not sure if this was picked up, from Five Live reported in the Standard and elsewhere. Sour grapes or the truth (or both):

Donald Trump and Boris Johnson share an “elastic relationship with the truth”, the former chairman of the Conservative Party has said.

Lord Patten also accused Mr Johnson or his senior adviser Dominic Cummings of turning the Conservative Party into a “rather narrow sectarian English nationalist party”.

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by SpringTime 05 December, 2019 13:30

diable rouge Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Perhaps. I'm all for exposing politicians of all
> hues for their lies, they should never become
> normailsed like they have. Johnson and his
> henchmen are fibbing on an unprecedented
> industrial scale yet the right wing press ignores
> them. This 'dossier' by old school right wing Tory
> journalist Peter Oborne bucks the propaganda
> trend... [boris-johnson-lies.com]

Yep. He says anything and makes it up as he goes along. Shan't vote for him, or his slum-landlord Patel, or that sleazebag-Christian-with-tonnes-of-cash-Mogg, even if he is suspiciously quiet at the moment. It's getting tough to choose. Diane Abacus is also largely off the radar at the minute. The woman is dangerously mad as well. I genuinely believe she's a hateful racist. Can you trust her to run the show when JC's on a holiday camp? Or maybe a concentration camp.

I do want to vote though. I voted leave but it's not so important to me so that I'd have to vote Tory. I can't stomach that. For my first time (how exciting!) the LibDems and Green Party are actually on the table.

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by pk 05 December, 2019 13:55

SpringTime Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> diable rouge Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> Diane Abacus is also
> largely off the radar at the minute. The woman is
> dangerously mad as well. I genuinely believe she's
> a hateful racist

How have you come to that belief?

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by JohnL 05 December, 2019 14:08

SpringTime Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> diable rouge Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Perhaps. I'm all for exposing politicians of
> all
> > hues for their lies, they should never become
> > normailsed like they have. Johnson and his
> > henchmen are fibbing on an unprecedented
> > industrial scale yet the right wing press
> ignores
> > them. This 'dossier' by old school right wing
> Tory
> > journalist Peter Oborne bucks the propaganda
> > trend... [boris-johnson-lies.com]
>
> Diane Abacus is also
> largely off the radar at the minute. The woman is
> dangerously mad as well. I genuinely believe she's
> a hateful racist. Can you trust her to run the
> show when JC's on a holiday camp? Or maybe a
> concentration camp.

Her sons been arrested for assaulting a policeman - not her fault what's she supposed to do disown him - we're stuck with our relatives

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by SpringTime 05 December, 2019 16:04

JohnL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SpringTime Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > diable rouge Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Perhaps. I'm all for exposing politicians of
> > all
> > > hues for their lies, they should never become
> > > normailsed like they have. Johnson and his
> > > henchmen are fibbing on an unprecedented
> > > industrial scale yet the right wing press
> > ignores
> > > them. This 'dossier' by old school right wing
> > Tory
> > > journalist Peter Oborne bucks the propaganda
> > > trend... [boris-johnson-lies.com]
> >
> > Diane Abacus is also
> > largely off the radar at the minute. The woman
> is
> > dangerously mad as well. I genuinely believe
> she's
> > a hateful racist. Can you trust her to run the
> > show when JC's on a holiday camp? Or maybe a
> > concentration camp.
>
> Her sons been arrested for assaulting a policeman
> - not her fault what's she supposed to do disown
> him - we're stuck with our relatives

Oh, that's a shame John. He went to a good school according to mummy's wishes, though good schools shouldn't be available to other people...

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by cella 05 December, 2019 19:07

SpringTime Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> diable rouge Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Perhaps. I'm all for exposing politicians of
> all
> > hues for their lies, they should never become
> > normailsed like they have. Johnson and his
> > henchmen are fibbing on an unprecedented
> > industrial scale yet the right wing press
> ignores
> > them. This 'dossier' by old school right wing
> Tory
> > journalist Peter Oborne bucks the propaganda
> > trend... [boris-johnson-lies.com]
>
> Yep. He says anything and makes it up as he goes
> along. Shan't vote for him, or his slum-landlord
> Patel, or that
> sleazebag-Christian-with-tonnes-of-cash-Mogg, even
> if he is suspiciously quiet at the moment. It's
> getting tough to choose. Diane Abacus is also
> largely off the radar at the minute. The woman is
> dangerously mad as well. I genuinely believe she's
> a hateful racist. Can you trust her to run the
> show when JC's on a holiday camp? Or maybe a
> concentration camp.
>
> I do want to vote though. I voted leave but it's
> not so important to me so that I'd have to vote
> Tory. I can't stomach that. For my first time (how
> exciting!) the LibDems and Green Party are
> actually on the table.

Good riddance then if it's either of those two choices. Not sure they'd welcome your views/ugly language.

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by uncleglen 05 December, 2019 19:24

Blah Blah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What distortions of the truth would they be Uncle?
> Meanwhile, if you really do want to see
> distortions of the truth, I suggest you watch
> Boris Johnson's car crash of an interview with
> Andrew Marr on iplayer. I suggest you also revisit
> the claims made by both sides during the
> referendum campaign ;)

I happened to see a few minutes of the Johnson/Marr Sunday show...Boris was there to talk about the London Bridge killings and Andrew marr asked him how many other terrorists were out after half a sentence- Boris said "74," Marr said "Answer the question"- said it all- again- switched off....they might as well get an automaton on repeatedly saying 'Answer the question' if Marr isn't going to listen to the answer.

I didn't listen to ANY of the claims by either side during the run up to the referendum- I voted leave according to my own observations and experiences since 1973....overwhelmingly in favour of Leave- the EU has asset-stripped the UK wholesale- giving cheap loans out to non-EU countries like Turkey enabling them to take our manufacturing.
People like Heseltine have raked in £900,000 a year from the CAP.....
And the fishing industry is a third of what it was- WE are a bloody island for crying out loud- remember the Spanish vessels using illegal nets and nearly wiping out our cod stocks? No I bet you don't....you conveniently forget the REAL damage done over the years...in your quest for a cheap extension and looking up how much your property has appreciated in the last 15 years.

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