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messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by JohnL 12 December, 2019 19:38

Anyone who hasn't voted should think about doing so now.

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by pk 12 December, 2019 19:43

Hemingway Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The squirming and contortions on social media by
> people who claim to be non-racists to justify
> voting for an institutionally anti-Semitic party
> which is frightening British jews is a sight to
> behold today. Clearly anti-semitism doesn't really
> count as racism for huge number of laughably
> labelling themselves 'progressives' . Rank,
> hypocrites..makes me want to puke.

So who you voting for this without flaws?

Islamaphobia ok?

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by Sephiroth 12 December, 2019 19:54

I donít think Hemingway is voting for either of the main parties.

But like I said, one of those parties is who we will get so we have to find a way to deny both of them power. And that CAN mean voting for one of them to deny the other. WITHOUT Wanting either to win

but if everyone repulsed by both parties just bites green/indie/etc then the risk is one of the main two gets a big majority. Suboptimal

It all totally sucks. But we donít get a choice as to where we are. Only where we go

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by Hemingway 12 December, 2019 19:55

As for the Labour Party and antisemitism, the AS of the hard left is not the AS of fascism or the hard right

@#$%& me you couldnít make it up! What? Is it a gentler, kinder anti-semitism?

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by Hemingway 12 December, 2019 19:59

Ēwho you voting for this without flaws?

Islamaphobia ok?Ē

Donít think the Green Party have form on this.

youíre so tribal that anyone who criticise the Labour Party is a Tory.

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by diable rouge 12 December, 2019 20:01

Rockets Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Failing to address the rampant anti-Semitism
> within the party.

This has been an ongoing problem, and although important to address as a whole, it's not relevant to the specific point you were making about the campaigning of the last few weeks.

> The divisive anyone with wealth is evil rhetoric.

Have you got any actual specifics where this has been said during the campaign?

> The spin over the NHS and Trump.

In the summer Trump said himself that the NHS was on the table re. a post Brexit deal with the US, so why shouldn't Labour bring it up?

> The lies (even over something as straight-forward
> as whether Jeremy watches the Queen's speech)

He got caught out, but then again who's to say he didn't watch the speech on catch-up TV, there's so much on TV over Christmas it's hard to watch everything you want to at the time it's transmitted. I'm more concerned that by not watching the speech he's somehow painted as being a traitor, when 9 out of 10 people in the country do the same.

> The origins of the leaked documents.

I assume that you're referring to the NHS docs some people have said emanate from Russian sources? Has this been verified? If not then it's just heresay. Regardless of the source, what the docs highlighted is that drug patents are a US negotiating objective in trade talks, something that has been stated by the US previously. Johnson denied the NHS was on the table, so Labour had every right to bring it up.

> The costed yet un-costed manifesto.

'Creative accountancy' is hardly new when it comes to election manifestos, this is hardly a new low. Besides, all The manifesto are there to be costed by independent sources and called out, which they often are.

> The doctoring of videos to misrepresent the views
> of others (yes, Labour did it too)

I haven't seen any apart from the one the Tories did on Keir Starmer at the beginning of the campaign which the MSM picked up on. This is something that concerns me though and I feel it needs to be nipped in the bud as it won't be long before the technology is there to doctor live feeds. Very scary.

> The use of a 4 year old boy as a political
> football

Hardly new, does 'Jennifer's ear' ring a bell?

> The blatant attempts to try and bribe elements of
> the electorate with "free stuff".

Again, hardly new, I don't see any difference between doing this and, say, a tax cut. I think most people know there is a large cake which is cut up and 'given away', who gets what depends on who they're trying to attract, and equally they know any Gov will claim it back somehow.

> The constant attacks on any media that they don't
> think is toeing the line or dares to question what
> or how they are trying to do it.

Have you read the Daily Mail, Express, telegraph, Times lately? I think under such a constant onslaught from a hostile right wing press they have every right to defend themselves.

> The holier than tho attitude when their own house
> is not in order
> The endless virtue-signalling

I think the use of 'virtue-signalling' has itself become a form of virtue-signalling.

> Need I go on?

No, I've already missed Eastenders. A lot of what you say reads as opinion dressed up as fact and isn't relevant to your original point. Also I don't think you can say one side has been as bad as the other, i.e. of equivalence, but that's just my opinion. Time to watch catch-up myself...

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by pk 12 December, 2019 20:03

Hemingway Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ēwho you voting for this without flaws?
>
> Islamaphobia ok?Ē
>
> Donít think the Green Party have form on this.
>
> youíre so tribal that anyone who criticise the
> Labour Party is a Tory.

I asked a question

You draw a false conclusion

And didnít answer the question

What a bullshiter

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by diable rouge 12 December, 2019 20:05

If you think it's bad now, just wait until 10 o'clock comes...

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by Sephiroth 12 December, 2019 20:07

Donít think the Green Party have form on this.

youíre so tribal that anyone who criticise the Labour Party is a Tory.
Ē

You are still picking and choosing. I addressed all of this. Nothing tribal here. I hate Corbyn and wonít vote labour

But voting green just enables one of Johnson or Corbyn more power. One of them will win. The trick is to prevent both from a majority. Voting green wonít help that (Brighton excepted)

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by Hemingway 12 December, 2019 20:07

Iím voting green you @#$%&

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by pk 12 December, 2019 20:08

Hemingway Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Iím voting green you @#$%&


You remain now then?

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by Hemingway 12 December, 2019 20:09

Post for pk for clarity and was feckwit that got bleeped

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by Sephiroth 12 December, 2019 20:09

Ď



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2019:12:12:20:10:05 by Sephiroth.

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by Hemingway 12 December, 2019 20:10

Er, Yes. I voted remain in the referendum

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by pk 12 December, 2019 20:15

Hemingway Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Er, Yes. I voted remain in the referendum


Apologies

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by pk 12 December, 2019 20:16

For suggesting you were leave

Not for calling you a bullshiter

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by Hemingway 12 December, 2019 20:17

Ok. Apologies from me for the Feckwit comment

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by Hemingway 12 December, 2019 20:19

Oh so you are a feckwit after all. Why am I a bullshitter? Not taking it very seriously from someone whose already called me out for being a Brexiter based on Feck knows what

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by Blah Blah 12 December, 2019 20:52

Hemingway Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As for the Labour Party and antisemitism, the AS
> of the hard left is not the AS of fascism or the
> hard right
>
> @#$%& me you couldnít make it up! What? Is it a
> gentler, kinder anti-semitism?

You really can not cease with the gaslighting can you? No minority should be in fear of a party, no-one would disagree with that. But to equate a Corbyn government with the kind of government that really does give minorities something to fear is nonsense. The hard left AS is an obsession with Zionism, Isreal, and her geo-political standing in the world, whilst having no actual power to affect any of that in any direct way, bar enabling negotiations for some kind of regional peace. And crimes of AS against Jewish citizens are covered by criminal law. Next you will be suggesting that Corbyn will remove any such legal protections. The only valid argument is the same one afforded Boris, in that language and ideas that embolden racists, homophobes, antisemites etc are unacceptable no matter who they come from. Criticising Corbyn but excusing Boris is just pot calling kettle black. You are looking for hypocrisy on one side only, but can't see your own by doing so.

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by Hemingway 12 December, 2019 20:58

Whilst we are on Homophobia. Whilst he was an obscure crank on Labourís backbenches took, guess who took money from Iranian state TV . A country that literally hangs homosexual men from cranes.

Thereís not a scale of anti-semitism. You try and squirm out of it as much as you want. A microcosm of so called progressives all over social media today.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2019:12:12:20:59:31 by Hemingway.

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by cella 12 December, 2019 21:06

Hemingway Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The squirming and contortions on social media by
> people who claim to be non-racists to justify
> voting for an institutionally anti-Semitic party
> which is frightening British jews is a sight to
> behold today. Clearly anti-semitism doesn't really
> count as racism for huge number of laughably
> labelling themselves 'progressives' . Rank,
> hypocrites..makes me want to puke.

Ridiculous and OTT.

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by Hemingway 12 December, 2019 21:09

another in denial or pretending there isnít a huge problem

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by carlafindle 12 December, 2019 21:23

Hemingway Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> another in denial or pretending there isnít a huge
> problem


Go and have a cold shower you plonker

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by Hemingway 12 December, 2019 21:25

Removed by Admin

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by TheCat 12 December, 2019 21:25

Every since I was a kid. I've looked forward to the election results show. I know it's sad, but its the mathematician in me.....

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by Sephiroth 12 December, 2019 21:30

"Removed by Admin"

Something is up tonight. This isnít right. This ainít normal

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by Spartacus 12 December, 2019 21:38

Calm down people ... it's only an election !

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by Hemingway 12 December, 2019 21:42

No itís not. Just gobsmacked at how many people I genuinely thought were progressive liberal people are excusing the inexcusable. Not on here for clarity, I couldnít give a feck for the idiotic ramblings of the EDF nowadays

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by fishbiscuits 12 December, 2019 21:47

On Corbyn - I don't personally believe he is antisemitic, but the brand of extreme anti-Israel/anti-zionist sentiment amongst him and his crew leaves them so open to such accusations, they should know better.

If I'm absolutely honest, their Brexit fence-sitting and opaque borrowing plans bother me more.

I've gone LD again, which is going to make sod all difference in Camberwell & Peckham, but hey. The silver lining is that I'll be more than happy with Harriet Harman as MP again.

messageRe: Who to vote for?
Posted by Hemingway 12 December, 2019 21:50

Right Iím off to watch the election. The only outcome Iíd even vaguely be happy with is a hung parliament with the LDs and SNs only supporting a minority Labour government if Corbyn and his hard left , anti-Semitic cabal feck off right out of it. A slim hope.

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