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messageUber licence
Posted by TheArtfulDogger November 25, 05:26PM

TFL have refused to renew Ubers licence to operate as a taxi company in London, subject to appeal by Uber.

Two questions

Do you agree with the decision by TFL?

And will this also effect Uber delivery services (I.e. Uber eats)?

Would be interested to hear views from all sides (Uber drivers, taxi drivers and passengers )

Could make getting home from the office party interesting this year.

messageRe: Uber licence
Posted by dbboy November 25, 05:49PM

No,as have three months to appeal

messageRe: Uber licence
Posted by Spartacus November 25, 06:18PM

Uber only has 21 days to lodge and appeal and whilst Uber is going to appeal against the tfl decision, a magistrate will have to decide whether Uber is fit to hold a licence in London, or not.

A decision from a magistrates court could take weeks or months and unless the court decides otherwise, Uber will retain its licence during this period too.

So if they appeal immediately and the case is quick, it could well all be over by Christmas (lol that famous old quote)

Personally I find their service of late disappointing and the number of times my booked ride cancels (driver gets a better fare) and the app has to search again is getting worse in central London.

messageRe: Uber licence
Posted by cella November 25, 06:24PM

They are currently not fit for purpose. This is the second suspension and despite a change of CEO and a massive advertising campaign they are still allowing dodgy practices and not ensuring full safety for customers. It's right that TfL are pursuing this and they shoukd be supported.

messageRe: Uber licence
Posted by Sue November 25, 06:29PM

cella Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They are currently not fit for purpose. This is
> the second suspension and despite a change of CEO
> and a massive advertising campaign they are still
> allowing dodgy practices and not ensuring full
> safety for customers. It's right that TfL are
> pursuing this and they shoukd be supported.


I agree.

messageRe: Uber licence
Posted by mrwb November 25, 09:05PM

Uber very safe imo. You actually know who's car you're getting in to, have a digital trail for the entire journey, full tracking and the rest.

I don't like them taking 20% off the drivers though.

No reason drivers themselves couldn't create a co-op taxi app and keep almost the entire fare. Taxi app should be pretty simple. It's the regulatory stuff that's bit more complicated.

I see getting in to some random black can as far more risky.

messageRe: Uber licence
Posted by carlafindle November 25, 10:39PM

mrwb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Uber very safe imo. You actually know who's car
> you're getting in to, have a digital trail for the
> entire journey, full tracking and the rest.
>
> I don't like them taking 20% off the drivers
> though.
>
> No reason drivers themselves couldn't create a
> co-op taxi app and keep almost the entire fare.
> Taxi app should be pretty simple. It's the
> regulatory stuff that's bit more complicated.
>
> I see getting in to some random black can as far
> more risky.

Yes well opinions are no substitute for understanding...

messageRe: Uber licence
Posted by Sue November 26, 12:13AM

mrwb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Uber very safe imo. You actually know who's car
> you're getting in to, have a digital trail for the
> entire journey, full tracking and the rest.
>


But from what I've read, you don't, in fact.

Many of Uber's drivers are apparently uninsured, and also some drivers are using another driver's ID, if I have understood things correctly.

So you may know whose car you are getting into, but not necessarily who is driving it, nor whether they are insured.

messageRe: Uber licence
Posted by rahrahrah November 26, 09:50AM

I don't like black cabs. Too many "don't go south of the river, mate" experiences and times being trapped listening to some fairly obnoxious and uninvited opinions on the issues of the day whilst stuck in the back. As a cyclist, I am also fed up of being treated as game to be hunted by some cab drivers. They're ridiculously expensive and have a total monopoly and of course, successive mayors have been in hock to them as they have huge lobbying power. Whilst I accept that the 'knowledge' is a high skill qualification, it is also completely redundant in these days of Waze etc. I personally welcome the break up of their cartel.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was november 26, 09:50am by rahrahrah.

messageRe: Uber licence
Posted by rahrahrah November 26, 09:51AM

They amount of pollution they cause while driving around looking for fares, is also unwelcome.

messageRe: Uber licence
Posted by Lemming November 26, 10:12AM

Clearly any insurance issues or other malpractice need to be resolved. As to the rest, I can only go on personal and practical experience.

Virtually I and all of my friends use Uber, which translates to thousands of journeys since it started. The worst any of us can say about them are occasional cancelled rides (leading to another, say, 3 minute wait) or a surge fare from time to time.

Never had any issue with any driver. Cars are 95% decent.

If you feel the drivers are underpaid, tip them. I do. The driver keeps 100% of the tips.

messageRe: Uber licence
Posted by JohnL November 26, 10:19AM

I use buses and tube - no taxi in years.

I'd use them in an emergency but not for getting around London.

messageRe: Uber licence
Posted by JohnL November 26, 10:21AM

Mind you mentioning Xmas parties last year I was very late coming home from my work do and got threatened for wearing a plum coloured shirt - maybe an uber may have been appropriate but my nature is to find a bus stop.

messageRe: Uber licence
Posted by Sue November 26, 12:00PM

JohnL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I use buses and tube - no taxi in years.
>
> I'd use them in an emergency but not for getting
> around London.


Same here, apart from when I've been too ill to use public transport.

messageRe: Uber licenceattachment
Posted by malumbu November 26, 12:17PM

rahrahrah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They amount of pollution they cause while driving
> around looking for fares, is also unwelcome.

You'll find that black cabs are more polluting, they are a very powerful lobby and are allowed to stay on our roads than other commercial vehicles. The switch to plug in hybrids will take a long time

Attachments: cabs.jpg (10.6KB)  
messageRe: Uber licence
Posted by TheArtfulDogger November 26, 12:45PM

It might be quicker than you think in terms of the black cabs converting over

[www.driving.co.uk]

I also thought that in a few years time only electric black cabs would get new first time licence (according to a cabby a couple of months ago) when the cab is first registered for use on Londons streets

messageRe: Uber licence
Posted by JohnL November 26, 12:48PM

malumbu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> rahrahrah Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------
> The switch to plug in hybrids will take a long
> time

Driverless vehicles aren't far away (Uber's business plan includes these) so is it worth it ?

In testing but probably 5 years below.

[www.theguardian.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit was november 26, 12:51pm by JohnL.

messageRe: Uber licence
Posted by mrwb November 26, 02:04PM

For me an "Uber" like system is the way forward for all Taxis.

No reason it has to actually be run by the Uber corporation though. Personally think we're decades away from driver-less cars in a city as complicated to navigate as London. Too many unexpected things happen on the roads for computer driven car to be safe anytime before that.

The Uber app itself is really very simple. Don't see why TFL or the drivers themselves if they joined forces couldn't simply copy what Uber are doing right now with a better App. Give all the money ex expenses to the drivers?

All the drivers use Google Maps / Waze to navigate anyway.

messageRe: Uber licence
Posted by rahrahrah November 26, 02:28PM

malumbu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> rahrahrah Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > They amount of pollution they cause while
> driving
> > around looking for fares, is also unwelcome.
>
> You'll find that black cabs are more polluting,
> they are a very powerful lobby and are allowed to
> stay on our roads than other commercial vehicles.
> The switch to plug in hybrids will take a long
> time

I was referring to black cabs - sorry, it wasn't clear. I'm in favour of breaking up the black cabs cartel

messageRe: Uber licence
Posted by rahrahrah November 26, 02:30PM

mrwb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For me an "Uber" like system is the way forward
> for all Taxis.
>
> No reason it has to actually be run by the Uber
> corporation though. Personally think we're decades
> away from driver-less cars in a city as
> complicated to navigate as London. Too many
> unexpected things happen on the roads for computer
> driven car to be safe anytime before that.
>
> The Uber app itself is really very simple. Don't
> see why TFL or the drivers themselves if they
> joined forces couldn't simply copy what Uber are
> doing right now with a better App. Give all the
> money ex expenses to the drivers?
>
> All the drivers use Google Maps / Waze to navigate
> anyway.

exactly this. I'm not necessarily lobbying for Uber, but I do think the whole business model of thousands of diesel cars driving round looking for fares, with highly paid drivers who've spent years memorising every street in London is a ridiculous anachronism. The black cab monopoly is ripe for challenge.

messageRe: Uber licence
Posted by Lemming November 26, 03:16PM

Black cabs are available on 'Gett' - which works in a similar way to Uber.

Last cab journey I took with Uber cost 22 on Saturday night. Comparative black cab price for that journey at the same time would be 42. Maybe the former is too little (hence 'it's good to tip') but the latter is absolutely too much, unless there happen to be five of you travelling.

messageRe: Uber licence
Posted by TheArtfulDogger November 26, 05:22PM

Lemming, I've had different experience with pricing

Late night saturday(s) coming back from Soho , uber quotes and charges almost exactly the same as a black cab (surge pricing) and also proved more difficult to get as they cancel after accepting.

I've started to use black cabs more now as a result. Plus they always seem to have an interesting conversation starter 😂

messageRe: Uber licence
Posted by cella November 26, 08:06PM

Don't think anyone is suggesting breaking up Uber. More they need to properly sort out their business model and comply with safety requirements etc and after an appeal they may be back in. Younger people love them generally so it's strange that they aren't helping themselves.

messageRe: Uber licence
Posted by Lemming November 26, 08:29PM

TheArtfulDogger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Late night saturday(s) coming back from Soho ,
> uber quotes and charges almost exactly the same as
> a black cab (surge pricing) and also proved more
> difficult to get as they cancel after accepting.

The menace of The Surge! Well, supply and demand in action there: the surge can be double at absolute peak time and place, no doubt. Good excuse to head back into the pub for another drink then try again.

In small defence of The Surge - it is I think transparently explained by Uber, seems to be geographically localised quite precisely - and can disappear as quickly as it arrives.

messageRe: Uber licence
Posted by NewWave November 26, 10:37PM

rahrahrah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't like black cabs. Too many "don't go south
> of the river, mate" experiences and times being
> trapped listening to some fairly obnoxious and
> uninvited opinions on the issues of the day whilst
> stuck in the back. As a cyclist, I am also fed up
> of being treated as game to be hunted by some cab
> drivers. They're ridiculously expensive and have a
> total monopoly and of course, successive mayors
> have been in hock to them as they have huge
> lobbying power. Whilst I accept that the
> 'knowledge' is a high skill qualification, it is
> also completely redundant in these days of Waze
> etc. I personally welcome the break up of their
> cartel.

I haven't used a black cab since at gone midnight stood in pouring rain in Islington 3 black cabs with their lights on stopped and refused to take me because I was going to SE london.
as a middle aged lone female I felt pretty vulnerable too.
I always use Uber now I've used them in france and the US too.
the drivers are always polite and intelligent and I feel safe
and more importantly I don't feel I'm being charged a fortune to go door to door.

messageRe: Uber licence
Posted by rahrahrah November 27, 01:23PM

...For those who would like to see a driver owned Uber alernative: [neweconomics.org]

messageRe: Uber licence
Posted by Jules-and-Boo November 27, 01:28PM

ditto - Uber are a great idea, they just need to get their act together.
All it takes is one person to be abused and there would be uproar.

TfL absolutely have a responsibility to reduce/ remove this risk

messageRe: Uber licence
Posted by mrwb November 27, 01:44PM

rahrahrah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...For those who would like to see a driver owned
> Uber alernative:
> [neweconomics.org]


This is good. Google maps has an API, how difficult could it be to build a taxi app on top of it really? It's the marketing that would be harder.

They even suggest ride sharing on the API info page.

If Uber does get shut down hopefully a rider / driver owned app will come about instead.

messageRe: Uber licence
Posted by nxjen November 27, 02:16PM

An app for a driver owned service would not be difficult but where it could fall down would be where Uber has fallen down i.e. background checks and the possibility of fraud.

messageRe: Uber licence
Posted by Asset November 28, 06:08PM

Bolt is an alternative service to Uber. Works the same way and is very cheap (who's losing out there..) Bolt cars and drivers don't seem as well turned out as the Uber drivers although I've only used the service once.

A neighbour of mine is an Uber driver and I feel for him and his family with this uncertainty.

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