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messageRe: EU Trade Talks Thread
Posted by pk February 18, 05:45PM

keano77 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ď... and mugs like you will fall for it...Ē
>
> I have to admire your small c conservatism pk -
> your brave attempts to preserve the (EU) status
> quo. No adventurer you, boldly prepared to move
> forward.
>

But the real point is that thereís not been enough preparation (bold or otherwise) about moving forward

Unless youíve got sight of all the bold preparation thatís taken place that no one else knows about, then Iíd say going on an adventure by destroying plan a without knowing what plan b is a stupid and reckless, so Iím happy not to be an adventurer

messageRe: EU Trade Talks Thread
Posted by keano77 February 18, 06:21PM

Fair point pk

Thereís nothing wrong with double knotting your shoes, belt and braces and taking out an umbrella on a fine day just in case.

messageRe: EU Trade Talks Thread
Posted by stepdown February 18, 06:26PM

It's a desperate sort of blend of straw man and ad-hominem, attacking you for a lack of adventure or me for close-mindedness, rather than actually discussing the issues at hand.

I wouldn't pay much attention to such "radical" thinking.

messageRe: EU Trade Talks Thread
Posted by keano77 February 18, 06:46PM

Itís nothing personal stepdown (or pk)

The issues at hand are the issues that have always been at hand. The EU cannot be seen to give the UK a better deal as a non-member than we would have as a full member - otherwise the EU would collapse with Frexit, nexit, italexit etc but at the same time the EU wants to keep access to our waters and no doubt will request billions for U.K. access to this and that.

In that sense, as Theresa May said, ďnothing has changedĒ

Let battle commence with the talks

messageRe: EU Trade Talks Thread
Posted by Sephiroth February 18, 07:22PM

Yep both uk and eu want a good deal

Now. Who holds the balance of power?

There you go. Itís ainít the uk. It hasnít got nothing but itís pissing away any leverage and goodwill by being arrogant hissy babies. Demanding what it already has for nothing.

The uk is the antagonist in all of this. Eu never asked for it. Uk will come out badly because it doesnít have the heft it thinks it does. And it will lose two nations from its kingdom. And it wonít be the eu fault

messageRe: EU Trade Talks Thread
Posted by Blah Blah February 18, 07:54PM

The Greeks want their Marbles back as part of any deal apparently. Quite fitting as we seem to have lost ours ;)

messageRe: EU Trade Talks Thread
Posted by Sephiroth February 19, 06:28AM

Not sure the plans announced by government today are compatible with keanoís desire for no border and it just being an evil eu plan

[www.theguardian.com]

messageRe: EU Trade Talks Thread
Posted by Alan Medic February 19, 07:58AM

Sephiroth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not sure the plans announced by government today
> are compatible with keanoís desire for no border
> and it just being an evil eu plan
>
> [www.theguardian.com]
> -to-close-door-to-non-english-speakers-and-unskill
> ed-workers?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

But we are constantly told by the government that there is full employment. So who will do the jobs in hospitality, catering,care?

messageRe: EU Trade Talks Thread
Posted by JohnL February 19, 08:12AM

Alan Medic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sephiroth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Not sure the plans announced by government
> today
> > are compatible with keanoís desire for no
> border
> > and it just being an evil eu plan
> >
> >
> [www.theguardian.com]
>
> >
> -to-close-door-to-non-english-speakers-and-unskill
>
> > ed-workers?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
>
> But we are constantly told by the government that
> there is full employment. So who will do the jobs
> in hospitality, catering,care?

On Sky after asking this question businesses were told they would have to find other ways.

In other words low skilled immigrants are just intrinsically bad - it isn't a job issue.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was february 19, 08:50am by JohnL.

messageRe: EU Trade Talks Thread
Posted by JohnL February 19, 08:23AM

Priti Patel says care workers will be exempt on Kay Burley show - 20 minutes later an employment professional said that was not in the bill and she lied.

Never smiling smiley

messageRe: EU Trade Talks Thread
Posted by Sephiroth February 19, 09:36AM

When I moved to England, Iíd score a 10 on that new test

messageRe: EU Trade Talks Thread
Posted by Sephiroth February 19, 09:54AM

Still, Iím here now

Living in same country as keano and uncleglen

Only I have more rights and freedoms than they do

messageRe: EU Trade Talks Threadattachment
Posted by Alan Medic February 19, 10:06AM

Sephiroth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Still, Iím here now
>
> Living in same country as keano and uncleglen
>
> Only I have more rights and freedoms than they do

https://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/file.php?20,file=349465



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was february 19, 10:07am by Alan Medic.

Attachments: OIP.jpg (5.5KB)  
messageRe: EU Trade Talks Thread
Posted by JohnL February 19, 10:09AM

Sephiroth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Still, Iím here now
> Living in same country as keano and uncleglen
> Only I have more rights and freedoms than they do

Patel has plans for the "economically inactive" - ironically that's going to be lots of the Brexit fanatics I suspect. Pensioners next.

"8 million people between the ages of 16 and 64 were ďeconomically inactiveĒ and could be given the skills to do jobs in sectors where there were shortages as a result of the new points-based system."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was february 19, 10:10am by JohnL.

messageRe: EU Trade Talks Thread
Posted by Seabag February 19, 10:10AM

Hard Brexit seems to be the poison of choice for this government

[apple.news]

messageRe: EU Trade Talks Thread
Posted by JohnL February 19, 10:14AM

Seabag Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hard Brexit seems to be the poison of choice for
> this government
>
> [apple.news]


Unfortunately the "short run cost" is about 50 years.

messageRe: EU Trade Talks Thread
Posted by JohnL February 19, 10:19AM

You can see whats going to happen - those unemployed or ill or not working for other reasons are going to be forced into these jobs whether they're fit to do them or not.

"Business groups from the CBI to the bodies representing the farming, hospitality and care work sectors have all raised the alarm about the new system, saying it will cause labour shortages."

"But Patel insisted it would be necessary for businesses to look more to potential British workers, helping them to ďup their skills and make their skills relevantĒ to the job market."

But these are non skilled jobs Priti - or you define them as such for immigration purposes ?

messageRe: EU Trade Talks Thread
Posted by Alan Medic February 19, 11:12AM

What does 'economically inactive' mean? Surely not unemployed?

messageRe: EU Trade Talks Thread
Posted by stepdown February 19, 11:19AM

Alan Medic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What does 'economically inactive' mean? Surely not
> unemployed?

I imagine it's worded that way so that it doesn't impact wealthy people who are unemployed and living off income/capital gains from assets.

messageRe: EU Trade Talks Thread
Posted by TheCat February 19, 03:58PM

pk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> keano77 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > How things work today pk might not be how they
> > work tomorrow. Itís called change or adaption
> or
> > evolution etc
> >
> But as weíre here today why not deal with today
> rather than speculate about some bizarre future
> where countries donít have free trade arrangements
> but donít have border controls either?

I find this a puzzling perspective. Many remainers want to berate leavers for not having a clear plan for the future. And while I acknowledge that brexit is clearly significant more change than remaining, the 'status quo' does not exist, the EU will continue to evolve, so while there is uncertainty in leaving, there is also uncertainty in remaining. I don't think anyone can accuratley predict what the Eu will look like in 10 years time.

messageRe: EU Trade Talks Thread
Posted by Sephiroth February 19, 04:05PM

But just because no one can predict anything with 100% accuracy doesnít mean we canít weigh up probabilities. The eu has been a stable and useful environment for its existence - it will evolve and if we stayed we would have helped shaped that evolution. As it is we will be a small country alone, buffeted by other larger blocs. So on balance remaining provides that far better probable outcome

Remainers have lots of reasons to complain. One of them
Being Dealing with keano and uncle and their bizarro world interpretation of events (the eu will impose a border. Not us!!) and yet here are on the day the government publishes its point system to keep people out (without a border how does it propose to do that?)

messageRe: EU Trade Talks Thread
Posted by stepdown February 19, 04:06PM

The status quo does exist, it's simply how things currently are. An uncertain future does not negate the fact that there is a present.

messageRe: EU Trade Talks Thread
Posted by pk February 19, 04:15PM

TheCat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pk Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > keano77 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > How things work today pk might not be how
> they
> > > work tomorrow. Itís called change or adaption
> > or
> > > evolution etc
> > >
> > But as weíre here today why not deal with today
> > rather than speculate about some bizarre future
> > where countries donít have free trade
> arrangements
> > but donít have border controls either?
>
> I find this a puzzling perspective. Many remainers
> want to berate leavers for not having a clear plan
> for the future. And while I acknowledge that
> brexit is clearly significant more change than
> remaining, the 'status quo' does not exist, the EU
> will continue to evolve, so while there is
> uncertainty in leaving, there is also uncertainty
> in remaining. I don't think anyone can accuratley
> predict what the Eu will look like in 10 years
> time.

You think that dealing with where we are today is a puzzling concept? And that a no deal without borders isnít?

Perhaps you can explain that?

messageRe: EU Trade Talks Thread
Posted by Blah Blah February 19, 06:04PM

Just back on the unemployed taking up those low skilled jobs that immigrants will no longer fill. Priti seems to forget that those in receipt of UC (and not sick or disabled) are already required to apply for those jobs if they live near to them. But where are the hoards of unemployed living around farms to go and pick lettuces for min wage?

The full employment claim is also a red herring as a person only has to be doing one hour of work a week to be classed as employed by government figures. Zero hours contracts and a million plus full time workers in need of top up benefits to meet basic living costs is the real story behind those figures.

The figure for long term unemployed has consistently sat at around 240k ish. Using the term 'economically inactive' may indeed signal a move to force those beyond the category of 'able bodied' unemployed into jobs, although quite how they intend to manage this is going to be another matter. Employers don't want unsuitable people foisted onto them either.

messageRe: EU Trade Talks Thread
Posted by JohnL February 20, 10:03AM

Priti causing trouble in the Home Office now.

ĎIf this were any other environment Philip Rutnam would not only be sacked heíd be denied a pension.'

It worries me that this government thinks it can threaten the pensions of civil servants. Not only the civil service but pension schemes should be separate from politicians. Any other environment has contribution based pensions and it's your money (mine shows up on my bank account app - Priti's not having it).

[metro.co.uk]

messageRe: EU Trade Talks Thread
Posted by Seabag February 20, 10:35AM

I work closely with the restaurant industry, and this restriction is worrying as thereís a 4.00 vacancies per 100 jobs in the industry, compared to 2.6 for the wider economy.

ĎLow skillí doesnít account for ability and aptitude. At Pret A Manger they get 1 in 50 applications by British people and 65% of their work force are from EU countries.

Itís going to impact business badly. Being told to up staff retention and bring in automation (the governments helpful advice) isnít the answer.

I have this vision of the restaurant industry looking like a Homebase store, with senior citizens working as waiters and baristas.

God help us, itís all a bit Dadís Army.

messageRe: EU Trade Talks Thread
Posted by JohnL February 20, 11:03AM

Seabag Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I work closely with the restaurant industry, and
> this restriction is worrying as thereís a 4.00
> vacancies per 100 jobs in the industry, compared
> to 2.6 for the wider economy.
>
> ĎLow skillí doesnít account for ability and
> aptitude. At Pret A Manger they get 1 in 50
> applications by British people and 65% of their
> work force are from EU countries.
>
> Itís going to impact business badly. Being told to
> up staff retention and bring in automation (the
> governments helpful advice) isnít the answer.
>
> I have this vision of the restaurant industry
> looking like a Homebase store, with senior
> citizens working as waiters and baristas.
>
> God help us, itís all a bit Dadís Army.

It's already making bad service too. A few pub managers have mentioned they lost all there staff erlier this year and I'm seeing people behind the bar making a foamy mess of pouring a pint - I suppose they'll get better.

My 20% reduction in certain pubs and free coffees at Pret seems to have gone with the East Europeans mind you (maybe it'll return) smiling smiley

messageRe: EU Trade Talks Thread
Posted by keano77 February 20, 11:08AM

Yes Seabag. I think the immigration proposal needs to be re-thought.

Thereís been talk of an ďAustralian systemĒ. Iíve no idea what system Australia currently operates but I remember years ago it was based on needs and shortages. Some friends of mine who were nurses were refused visas as Australia has its own nurses. Pastry chefs and many restaurant, catering and hotel staff were much in demand but Australia didnít want many professionals such as accountants etc. If you were prepared to be a cook at an outback sheep or cattle ranch you were welcomed with open arms as were jackeroos and jilleroos.

Such an approach by Britain should be seriously considered to cover catering, hospitality and the care crisis to name just a few.

messageRe: EU Trade Talks Thread
Posted by Blah Blah February 20, 11:16AM

This is precisely why I think it will be rethought Keano, as the obvious problems emerge in practise. Priti has a track record of poor understanding of most of the things she expresses views on, so I take her comments with a pinch of salt. She also has poor judgement and it is only a matter of time before she messes up, as she did when she unofficially met Isreali officials.

messageRe: EU Trade Talks Thread
Posted by keano77 February 20, 11:29AM

Another reason it ought to be rethought is because Sephiroth (above) probably wouldnít even get those 10 points on the new system because of his English. Then weíd all miss his entertaining contributions.

😆



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was february 20, 11:31am by keano77.

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