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messageRe: Is the corona virus becoming a pandemic
Posted by Trinnydad March 05, 10:11PM

The real question is whether China will now change its policy towards the "wet markets" which sell a wide range of wild animals both alive and dead , including bats, snakes and armadillos.

I have been to several cities there and seen many different species caged in high density situations in close proximity to foodstuff. Hygiene is non existent.

Given that China has been the source of many of the worst viral pandemics over the last 100 years, it's about time they wisened up. The worst, in 1918/19 killed 50 million and is believed to have originated in China. This was brought to Europe by the thousands of Chinese labourers used as labourers by the Allies in WW1. Then the was the Asian flu pandemic in the 50's.

There appears to be a lot in common with Ebola and wild meat products in Central Africa.

messageRe: Is the corona virus becoming a pandemic
Posted by KidKruger March 05, 10:57PM

Iím not convinced, at a time when Ďself-isolateí is becoming a more frequent likelihood, that making a point of frequenting shops and retail spaces is the appropriate priority !

messageRe: Is the corona virus becoming a pandemic
Posted by Blah Blah March 05, 11:31PM

Wrong Trinidad. It is unknown exactly where Spanish Flu emerged from. France, Britain, China and the USA are all possibilities cited, but without any definitive evidence. However without going into the science too deeply, pathology specimens preserved from the time were analysed with present day molecular techniques in 2004, and the genes pointed not only to avian transmission, but closely mapped North American wild waterfowl. Migratory birds are monitored for avian flu viruses all year round by epidemiologists on the lookout for the next possible bird flu pandemic because the danger is known.

Whilst China and other countries, have food standards that are either not enforced, or risky, it is important to understand that any person working closely with a range of animals, from poultry to pigs, can be the first host for an avian flu virus. Spanish flu genes are found in pigs and people to this day. So it is not just about livestock at markets, but a whole range of farming practises.

messageRe: Is the corona virus becoming a pandemic
Posted by Trinnydad March 06, 07:55AM

@BB

Whilst, as you say, there was no "definite evidence" the probability is in favour of China being the source of the Spanish.
China has proven to be the source of The "Asian Flu" that originated in China in early 1956. Likewise the SARS epidemic.

This being the case, China needs to get a grip.

messageRe: Is the corona virus becoming a pandemic
Posted by JohnL March 06, 08:29AM

OK Government Experts are consistently saying mortality rate globally is 1% whilst all the monitoring sites (like the ones below say over 3%.

[gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com]
[nssac.bii.virginia.edu]

I assume this is as cases are under-reported (and that's a fair assumption) but they aren't explaining their figures clearly on the news channels and it leaves the impression they are pulling figures from the air.

messageRe: Is the corona virus becoming a pandemic
Posted by Blah Blah March 06, 09:13AM

No you are wrong. The probability for Spanish flu is in favour of the USA, and pathology supports that probability. The first documented cases emerged from the USA even. Did you not read anything I wrote above?

The first case of Asian Flu was not reported from China either, but Singapore (in 1957), followed by a case in Hong Kong and the coastal areas of the USA.

The H3N2 virus of 1968, originated in the USA (killed about 1 million globally and still exists as a seasonal flu virus today).

As keen as you are to demonise China, you might want to learn something about avian flu and the measures that are always ongoing to contain it. Have a look at this link to understand that avian and swine flu can emerge pretty much anywhere. What matters is detection and response.

[www.cdc.gov]

messageRe: Is the corona virus becoming a pandemic
Posted by intexasatthe moment March 06, 09:54AM

I wish the Gov would do more re containmemt .So far this seems to have concentrated on quarantining 2 groups back from Wuhan and one from the Diamond Princess .And contact tracing .

I wish they would take steps to stop large groups of people gathering - Crufts ,Cheltenham .

Is it just me ?

messageRe: Is the corona virus becoming a pandemic
Posted by JohnL March 06, 09:58AM

intexasatthe moment Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wish the Gov would do more re containmemt .So
> far this seems to have concentrated on
> quarantining 2 groups back from Wuhan and one from
> the Diamond Princess .And contact tracing .
>
> I wish they would take steps to stop large groups
> of people gathering - Crufts ,Cheltenham .
>
> Is it just me ?

They seem to be saying they haven't reached that point yet.

England - Wales rugby still goes ahead.

messageRe: Is the corona virus becoming a pandemic
Posted by muffins78 March 06, 11:33AM

I wish they would too! Isolate whatever they can now!

What seems to be happening in the US is worse though, between them not having the great healthcare available to them that we have! Iím worried about those people who canít afford to be tested and what will happen to them and others as time goes on...

messageRe: Is the corona virus becoming a pandemic
Posted by diable rouge March 06, 11:38AM

Surely public transport is the biggest risk, the tube and buses at the best of times are breeding grounds for every bug going...

messageRe: Is the corona virus becoming a pandemic
Posted by muffins78 March 06, 11:50AM

Yes it is - I think everyone is weary. For the couple of days I did venture to the office this week, I decided to leave a little early to avoid the worst of rush hour. People must have left a lot earlier than me, Canary Wharf was very quiet compared to normal.
Hard thing is you canít avoid it sometimes if you donít drive. Iím not sure Iím comfortable with a taxi either (might be overthinking things) - Iím trying to reduce journeys and coordinate appointments and trying to walk if possible. Not always possible...

messageRe: Is the corona virus becoming a pandemic
Posted by edcam March 06, 02:35PM

Some responses to this virus are borderline hysterical.

messageRe: Is the corona virus becoming a pandemic
Posted by diable rouge March 06, 02:40PM

Isn't that one of the first symptoms?

*Hides in the Quiet Room...*

messageRe: Is the corona virus becoming a pandemic
Posted by JohnL March 06, 03:37PM

edcam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some responses to this virus are borderline
> hysterical.

Everybody has to assess their own risk and risk of those close to them. I still would feel comfortable popping down the pub and local shops.

messageRe: Is the corona virus becoming a pandemic
Posted by fishbiscuits March 06, 03:59PM

Trinnydad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This being the case, China needs to get a grip.

There's a couple of problems... superstitious (or pseudo-medicinal) beliefs that lead to the import and trade of exotic animals in China. And specifically the selling of live wild animals within food markets.

It will be hard to stamp out the former without a major cultural shift (or until there's no more tigers, rhinos, and pangolins left to take penises/horns/scales from). But the latter should be fairly simple to enforce/regulate.

messageRe: Is the corona virus becoming a pandemic
Posted by muffins78 March 06, 04:07PM

Yes so Iím in an at risk category - Iíve already had five courses of antibiotics in 2020 alone - I catch everything as my immune system is compromised. So whilst it may seem like an hysterical response - itís definitely real for me - and I wish it were different. But Iím lucky compared to others too..

messageRe: Is the corona virus becoming a pandemic
Posted by cactus March 06, 05:09PM

I'm a bit confused! Totally on board with the hand washing etc, but at the same time we're told that transmission via surfaces is still quite unlikely, and we're most likely to pass it on/catch it from close contacts, ie family and friends ...
Anyway, I think the worried well should try not to panic and hoard, but be really mindful of protecting the most vulnerable wherever possible. My dad has severe COPD, he'll definitely succumb if he becomes infected. It'll be an enormous tragedy if we have huge fatalities world wide, and all healthcare systems will be severely affected for many months to come.

messageRe: Is the corona virus becoming a pandemic
Posted by seenbeen March 06, 05:29PM

Trinnydad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @BB
>
> Whilst, as you say, there was no "definite
> evidence" the probability is in favour of China
> being the source of the Spanish.
> China has proven to be the source of The "Asian
> Flu" that originated in China in early 1956.
> Likewise the SARS epidemic.
>
> This being the case, China needs to get a grip.

What is the actual point of the World Health Organisation?

messageRe: Is the corona virus becoming a pandemic
Posted by JohnL March 06, 05:34PM

cactus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm a bit confused! Totally on board with the hand
> washing etc, but at the same time we're told that
> transmission via surfaces is still quite unlikely,
> and we're most likely to pass it on/catch it from
> close contacts, ie family and friends ...

I'd say if you touch a surface then touch your eyes (or face) that's the risk. if you touch a surface and wash hands then touch your face you're OK.

[www.nytimes.com]

messageRe: Is the corona virus becoming a pandemic
Posted by Blah Blah March 06, 06:50PM

seenbeen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Trinnydad Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > @BB
> >
> > Whilst, as you say, there was no "definite
> > evidence" the probability is in favour of China
> > being the source of the Spanish.
> > China has proven to be the source of The "Asian
> > Flu" that originated in China in early 1956.
> > Likewise the SARS epidemic.
> >
> > This being the case, China needs to get a grip.
>
> What is the actual point of the World Health
> Organisation?

Why are you quoting a factually incorrect post before posing the question?

The WHO is an international body whose purpose is to coordinate on health matters for the nations signed up to it. It also provides leadership and pathways for research. You would know the difference if it didn't exist.

What it does not have however, is the power to tell sovereign governments how to run their affairs.

Edited to also say that viruses mutate and always have. Flu viruses have been an ongoing challenge for science. They mutate on a regular basis. Thinking we can create a world in which a flu pandemic never emerges is sadly a bit optimistic.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was march 06, 06:54pm by Blah Blah.

messageRe: Is the corona virus becoming a pandemic
Posted by TE44 March 06, 10:24PM

SeenBeen, there was a film made called TrustWHO, although I have not seen this film I believe it uncovers a corruption within this organisation. This link goes into more detail.

[www.aljazeera.com]

messageRe: Is the corona virus becoming a pandemic
Posted by TE44 March 06, 11:03PM

Find this very strange "Event201" an event simulating and looking at what may be if a novel coronavirus were to take hold, this was held a couple of months before the first case.

[www.centerforhealthsecurity.org]

messageRe: Is the corona virus becoming a pandemic
Posted by seenbeen March 07, 01:04AM

This is from their website...'WHO works worldwide to promote health, keep the world safe, and serve the vulnerable'- not fit for purpose in my opinion. The asian wet markets are where the coronavirus started and SARS before that...we have hygiene inspectors looking at our food premises and we are told not to put raw meat and cooked food next to each other etc etc....BUT the wet markets flout ALL the rules and the WHO does nothing- 'keep the world safe' in your dreams!

messageRe: Is the corona virus becoming a pandemic
Posted by Blah Blah March 07, 02:18AM

Seenbeen, the WHO have no power over the regulations sovereign governments impose and enforce. If you think they have not been trying to educate on the risks around avian flu transmission then you know nothing about the WHO.

Also, as I have pointed out above,flu mutations have originated from the USA, South Africa and various origins that are not wet markets of Asia. All it takes for the virus to hop from bird to pig to human for example, is that humans are in close proximity to animals. Flu virus does not however transmit through raw meat. It transmits via living hosts. It is not that the markets are wet that is the issue, but that lots of living livestock are in close proximity to lots of people. This is a very different problem to a farm worker being infected from a pig. The latter is easy to contain, the former not. But absolutely, the risks could be minimised by stopping the sale of live meat at markets. Aside from flu viruses, there are all kinds of other bacterial issues around those markets that should also be addressed.

TE44, planning for pandemics has been an ongoing process for decades. Coronavirus is not a unique term. It is simply the type of virus of which COVID19 is just the latest mutation. So it is perfectly logical that the WHO would carry out an exercise featuring one of the best known groups of flu virus.

messageRe: Is the corona virus becoming a pandemic
Posted by Seabag March 07, 03:06AM

New (Mad Scientist as I like to call it) Scientist this month has a pretty in depth coverage of all you might need or want to know on the subject.

Last month it had the word Zoonotic in there, which if never heard until then. I also morbidly thought Ďwhat if thatís the last new word I ever learned

messageRe: Is the corona virus becoming a pandemic
Posted by TE44 March 07, 08:38AM

Blah Blah I am aware there is planning around viruses an different scenarios. I d nt trust the Who nor the CDC, The institutional organisatios involved with our health need to be more transparent and more answerable for there action. The one thing I feel we can be absolutely sure of, from these organisations and others connected with them is we will not be told the truth, maybe little snippets thrown in.

messageRe: Is the corona virus becoming a pandemic
Posted by TE44 March 07, 08:46AM

[civilianintelligencenetwork.ca]

I find this link has useful informstion and vids, it appears to be independant, I have checked some facts but not all. It gives background into the work being done with coronavirus.

messageRe: Is the corona virus becoming a pandemic
Posted by pk March 07, 09:33AM

TE44 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [civilianintelligencenetwork.ca]
> bill-gates-the-coronavirus-conspiracy/
>
> I find this link has useful informstion and vids,
> it appears to be independant, I have checked some
> facts but not all. It gives background into the
> work being done with coronavirus.

So have you fact checked Bill Gates being chief scientific officer of the new world order with the aim of depopulation through vaccine control?

Is that fact? Or is the site really for crazy conspiracy freaks who donít care for facts?

messageRe: Is the corona virus becoming a pandemic
Posted by TE44 March 07, 09:36AM

Yes pk it almost put me off as well, but as I said snippets, I don't suppose you got past the headline.

messageRe: Is the corona virus becoming a pandemic
Posted by TE44 March 07, 09:44AM

I think its a case of checking fact or information given as facts, once over the first paragraph there is factual history. I was not going to put this link above as
as conspiracy is such a "crazy" idea, its a long article but I found it to be interesting.

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