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The Bishop, The EDT, The Great Exhibition, the Actress or another?
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messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by mako April 05, 12:25PM

You are right Healy that there are selfish types walking, running, cycling ambling etc. They ruin it for everyone. The considerate walker or runner can go about their business and maintain their distance. the problem with the inconsiderate jogger is they make it harder for the considerate walkers to maintain their distance. The inconsiderate amblers are easier however to avoid so whilst still a problem, they are 'less bad'.

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by KidKruger April 05, 01:30PM

"A hard lockdown would lead to unrest within a month."
By then most cases will have been identified and ended (one way or the there).

"Laying it all on runners is pure projection."
I haven't seen anywhere that all runners have been blamed, nor walkers excluded from blame.
In face most similar threads go to lengths to underline that there is a % of all types of space user ignoring distancing guidelines.

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by Soylent Green April 06, 08:06PM

Here's an idea. Runners run on even hours - eg 10am to 11am, 2pm to 3pm etc. You are only allowed to take an hour's exercise a day, so they odd hours , eg 9am to 10am, will be free for walkers and other users. Or vice versa. This would stop people like me feeling scared everytime a runner comes puffing their water/saliva droplets all over me. We already know that the 2m distance may be too close, especially when people are breathing hard.

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by ED Bird April 06, 11:30PM

Soylent Green, walkers are out for essentials, are keyworkers & helping others. Joggers are only out for themselves. It is not an essential activity. Do you know what time NHS are in & out of work? Of course you don't, so advice like "x time is free for walkers" simply doesn't work, nor should keyworkers have to work their lives around selfish people.

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by Padders April 07, 07:28AM

Why cant we all just get along?

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by Gingergossip April 07, 10:03AM

I just had a jogger phlegm up outside my house. My neighbor down the road has CCTV- I'll post the offenders picture if I can get it. Disgusting pig! Clearly running (and cycling) shuts off the blood supply to moral organs of the brain. The only answer is to just ban them. UK Gov is leaning in that direction because so many people cant behave sensibly.


For the groups hogging the entire pavement a taser is the only answer. Someone said to me that you cant expect children to understand. I don't, I expect parents to be parents and stop using their kids (and dogs) as an excuse.

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by seenbeen April 07, 10:41AM

Came across a new thing yesterday- bunch of young kids (9years ish) in the road on skateboards in the backstreets near North X Rd. as people were walking past so no going in the road to pass anyone in that area. There was another bunch of youngsters in Heber road as well, in the road on bikes just milling about. We have been trying keep to our own neighbourhood backstreets as it WAS quieter....

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by first mate April 07, 11:09AM

ED Bird Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Soylent Green, walkers are out for essentials, are
> keyworkers & helping others. Joggers are only out
> for themselves. It is not an essential activity.
> Do you know what time NHS are in & out of work? Of
> course you don't, so advice like "x time is free
> for walkers" simply doesn't work, nor should
> keyworkers have to work their lives around selfish
> people.

I just despair. We are hearing nurses and doctors on the frontline crying and literally begging people to stay in as much as they possibly can. The more we ignore this advice and do our own thing, the greater the burden we are heaping on those tasked with daily risking their lives to care for us.

We are not clear about transmission risks and exact mode of transmission. A proportion of the population who are healthy, young and fit are at risk of serious illness and even if they survive they will likely suffer permanent lung damage. The problem is we cannot single them out, so we have to assume we are all equally at risk.

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by scrawford April 07, 11:37AM

Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by seenbeen April 07, 01:29PM

Loads out in the streets today at midday- and cyclists

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by Soylent Green April 07, 07:09PM

Paris has banned jogging/running from 10 am to 7 pm. Could this be the way to go?

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by KidKruger April 07, 08:18PM

Unfortunately I don't see how else we can ensure public safety.

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by alice April 07, 08:51PM

Perhaps avoid long queues outside Marks and Spencers - there are several far less crowded supermarkets within 5 min walk.

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by fishbiscuits April 07, 11:00PM

Soylent Green Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Paris has banned jogging/running from 10 am to 7
> pm. Could this be the way to go?

Seems like a reasonable compromise. Most people should be able to get their shopping done outside of those hours. Yes there will be keyworkers travelling after 7pm but honestly, it's very very quiet out there in the evenings and it's easy to give each other space.

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by rahrahrah April 08, 11:12AM

Pedestrianise some streets to create more space for walking, running and cycling during the crisis. Lots of other cities have done this. Would also cut down on hospital admissions as a result of road injuries, thereby relieving some of the pressure on NHS.

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by KidKruger April 08, 11:19AM

Dulwich Park 0900.
Older couple, probably mid-70s to 80s, walking the outer 'natural' path obviously to try and keep out of the way.
Runner comes opposite way, he ain't giving signs of caring about distancing, plod plod plod, they clearly look to see if he'll give way.
Nope.
They step over the timber border on to the grass, walk onto grass a few metres, runner passes, followed by a 2nd runner who's seen this happen, afterwards the older couple return to their walk on path.
One minute later a young woman running approached on same path from behind them, runs BEWTEEN them and they have no clue until she's passed. They are visibly surprised and concerned. They weren't even 3ft apart.

Come on people, you can do better !!
This is happening now, after plenty guidance.
THIS is why a proper lockdown is required.
That older couple shouldn't be endangered unnecessarily like this, it's really unfair treatment.

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by fishbiscuits April 08, 12:22PM

Hmmm... but if you think a full lockdown is necessary, why were you in the park? Sorry not trying to be a dick, just want to understand your proposal.

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by DuncanW April 08, 12:45PM

Great question!

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by StraferJack April 08, 02:50PM

I imagine KK was in the park because he was trying to excecise resonsibly - but he can observe that not enough people are doing likewise and concludes that we all need to be controlled or this won't work - him staying at home won't change the behaviour of others

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by fishbiscuits April 08, 04:01PM

I guess that makes sense. Personally I do not think that a hard lockdown is justified (i.e. only going out for food, medicine/treatment, or to work if you're a key worker). But I do think some sort of further restriction is probably inevitable.

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by Rockets April 08, 04:07PM

Every time KK goes out they seem to have an episode with a runner - they must be very unlucky.

I think we have all seen stupid and selfish behaviour by people over the last two weeks: dumping of PPE equipment, speeding, congregating in groups, sunbathing, runners not giving way, pedestrians with dogs walking three abreast with a dog on a long lead, bad cycling and people even having picnics. But these are the exceptions - the majority seem to be following the guidelines and taking a commonsense, courteous and mindful to other people approach.

No point trying to demonise one group more than any other as there are fools everywhere and it will be the minority who ruin it for the majority. Weekends are the biggest issue right now, especially warm weather weekends when people would naturally want to be enjoying the first spring warmth. Perhaps we should all do a rain dance!

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by KidKruger April 08, 04:12PM

"Hmmm... but if you think a full lockdown is necessary, 1. why were you in the park? Sorry not trying to be a dick, 2. just want to understand your proposal."

Let's pretend you're not.. (funny, I read your post to my missus, who straight-off said,'they're just being a dick' !)
1. Walking dog. Though I'm not convinced doing so deletes validity of noticing/commenting on stupidity I see in parks.
2. Not sure of any proposal I made, I only mentioned lockdown required if we're make progress (I assume the meaning is obvious anyway, no ?)
You do get my point right ? Guidelines say being close to each other especially when breathing heavy is dangerous, and that older people are more susceptible to death. I see both in same place and time and post about it on a thread set-up for that purpose. You do get my point right ?
People won't behave = take away the privilege. You do get my point right ?

I was walking the dog.
I wasn't:
- approaching elderly (and by association one would assume, vulnerable) people unannounced from behind then pushing between them
- breathing heavily near anyone
- forcing vulnerable people off paths for my benefit
- going near anyone else

I hope this is clear, if not (or you see contradictions in my behaviour v observations), please shout !

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by KidKruger April 08, 04:25PM

"Every time KK goes out they seem to have an episode with a runner - they must be very unlucky."
Great time to be sarcastic (Assuming you weren't gathering empirical data for your daily sample, nor saying I'm exaggerating).

I think it makes those being put at risk unlucky, unlucky to the point where according to our own Govts guidelines, it could be fatal for them or their more vulnerable family members.

"No point trying to demonise one group more than any other as there are fools everywhere"
Obviously, which is why no-one I have seen on this thread is demonising anyone. You can only comment on the misdemeanours you see, right ?
If I'd seen walkers, dog walkers, or families doing same I would have noted that too. I'm interested in the safety of people over-all being compromised by a few people. The responses today really seem to reflect the blas regard the minority seem to consider the current situation with.

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by Sephiroth April 08, 04:37PM

" Personally I do not think that a hard lockdown is justified (i.e. only going out for food, medicine/treatment, or to work if you're a key worker). But I do think some sort of further restriction is probably inevitable."

I'm curious about both sides of these statements. I think a harder lockdown is necessary and desirable - and therefore inevitable

Why do you think it's not justified? Not looking to argue - just curious. As deaths rise daily and we look at other countries, as well as forecasts how is it not justified?

But if you are correct and it isn't - why is it inevitable?

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by Rockets April 08, 05:04PM

KK - wasn't being sarcastic - you seem to be having a daily run-in with runners - no pun intended. From my experience that seems unlucky - as from my own observations I am not having the same experience as you: I have been out for my daily exercise since the lockdown began and had one incident with a runner - I chastised them for their foolishness in the hope they would not do it again to anyone else.

My point was quite clear - there are idiots (not just runners) who are risking their health and the health of others by ignoring the rules. The government is modelling this (I think they estimate it can be anything up to 30% of the population who will be non-conformist) and they will have a point when they will trigger a most stringent lockdown to help control the curve.

Timing is key - you have to phase the lockdown and the degrees of severity therein. You can clamour for a hard lockdown but you cant do that from the get-go because research and experience elsewhere shows (unless you are in China and the populous is more scared of the government than the virus) that after 10 - 14 days people start going back to normal.

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by fishbiscuits April 08, 06:15PM

Sephiroth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why do you think it's not justified? Not looking
> to argue - just curious. As deaths rise daily and
> we look at other countries, as well as forecasts
> how is it not justified?

To clarify - "further restrictions" is not necessarily the same as a "hard lockdown". There are further measures the govt could impose while still allowing outdoor exercise within reason. I believe the physical and mental health benefits of a bit of exercise (and seeing other people out and about, even at a distance) are really, really important. And I also believe (or hope?) the daily number of new hospital admissions can be flattened soon, without completely taking away that allowance. But maybe by restricting it to certain times of day, or to certain designated areas.


KidKruger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> funny, I read your
> post to my missus, who straight-off said,'they're
> just being a dick' !)

Well she's probably right, but I still felt the need to semi-apologise in advance. Feel free to disregard. I interpreted your point as saying that you were in favour of a hard lockdown, which just seemed confusing coming from someone still using the park. Walking the dog puts it into context I suppose. I think there's going to be a lot of dogs round here going nuts if they're locked up at home all day, I wouldn't like to see that happening... (but am not dog person myself, as such).

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by KidKruger April 08, 06:38PM

Nothing mutually exclusive about believing a lockdown is overall best approach while using a park which is open.
Most people act according to the conditions they are in, rather than according to how they think conditions will develop in future.

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by susan_ April 08, 07:10PM

I really dont want to lose my daily exercise outing but every time Ive been out since guidelines came into effect I have encountered someone very blatantly ignoring them. I try to be the one to move out of the way and i try to be on the street or grass side so that i have the space to move myself out of the way. so many people seem to consider 1m or less to be 2m.

I have no issue stopping or going into the road so I can proactively manage the distancing with anyone coming towards me from in front. The difficulty is with people who come up behind me and overtake at <1m. I shouted Come on mate 2m at a lady runner and two teen runners who did this to me this morning and one of the teens shouted F*** Off back at me. Ill still try to remind people and to avoid/manage all the encounters proactively but I really dont see the problem as a tiny minority currently.

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by fishbiscuits April 08, 08:00PM

Susan - yes, there have been plenty of times when I've stepped well into the road, for example, but the effort to make space simply isn't reciprocated. So frustrating. I think you did the right thing by calling them out - more people should do it.

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by Applespider April 08, 10:57PM

On a slightly different note, if you do see someone who stops and waits to one side until a narrow pavement section clears, do please acknowledge them with a smile or nod. And consider doing the same; we probably all know a few spots on a local route where there's barely room to pass and it just takes a little looking ahead to avoid it. I'm thinking particularly of the stretch by the old church near the Grove where a hedge is massively overgrown and stepping into the South Circular (even though it's relatively quiet) isn't always possible.

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