We are trialing a dedicated East Dulwich COVID-19 Area on the forum here - please keep it useful.

Forum Sponsors

www.takeflightacademy.co.uk

All Round Renovation

www.fabbeautelondon.com

Advertise here

The East Dulwich Forum
The Bishop, The EDT, The Great Exhibition, the Actress or another?
Goto Page: Previous123456Next
Current Page: 4 of 6
messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by micromacromonkey April 09, 11:08AM

Keith?

[metro.co.uk]

Gingergossip Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just had a jogger phlegm up outside my house. My
> neighbor down the road has CCTV- I'll post the
> offenders picture if I can get it. Disgusting pig!
> Clearly running (and cycling) shuts off the blood
> supply to moral organs of the brain. The only
> answer is to just ban them. UK Gov is leaning in
> that direction because so many people cant behave
> sensibly.
>
>
> For the groups hogging the entire pavement a taser
> is the only answer. Someone said to me that you
> cant expect children to understand. I don't, I
> expect parents to be parents and stop using their
> kids (and dogs) as an excuse.

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by mako April 09, 11:44AM

There still seems to be 'its only a minority' flouting the rules as if that means it isnt a major issue. Surely everyone has seen the impact one person can have on total numbers infected. It also isnt rare. The numbers of joggers on lordship lane continues to be ridiculously high and due to the pavements size even moving into the road doesnt usually maintain 2m (which most research now suggests is not nearly far enough for someone outdoors who isnt stationary).

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by micromacromonkey April 09, 11:55AM

mako Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> doesnt usually maintain 2m (which most research
> now suggests is not nearly far enough for someone
> outdoors who isnt stationary).

links?

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by yeknomyeknom April 09, 02:09PM

A study on exercising near others and how even 2m doesnít suffice.

[medium.com]

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by Rockets April 09, 03:54PM

...if you're slip streaming....and even then the article says that if someone coughs, sneezes or breathes ahead of you (when you are slip streaming - and that part is important here) the largest droplets (which are the most at risk of contaminating you) will drop onto your clothing as they are heavier...so there is a lot of ifs, buts and maybes there and I very much doubt anyone is slip streaming when running right now (i.e. using the person in front of them to reduce your own drag which suggests you are very close to them).

The study, from which the journalist takes the information (the journalist is a self-described life-long athlete), is of the impact of slip streaming whilst exercising not exercising per se.

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by AllisonAdler April 09, 03:59PM

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was april 10, 12:42am by AllisonAdler.

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by FineWhine April 09, 04:17PM

Nicely put AA...

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by alice April 09, 04:27PM

Agreed

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by mako April 09, 05:04PM

Your intentions sound positive Alison, however the kindness you ask for means taking every possible precaution to stop the spread of virus, rather than herd immunity by exposure, which we dont know if it works, how long immunity would last and obviously of no use to those who are dead. As for the 'so what' to some people not being polite in other ways, there is a difference in this 'lack of politeness' can literally kill someone,-not really the same as someone who interrupts or doesn't say thank you. There are plenty of opportunities to do vigorous exercise without jogging the streets of lordship lane. As for 'fretting' about the actions of others, they can have a direct impact on whether we/friends/ family stay alive or not. As for your presumption that a 'jogger' is healthy, it is widely accepted that many carriers of the virus can show no symptoms, so they may personally be healthy, but pass on the virus to someone who isnt.

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by first mate April 09, 05:11PM

Mako, agreed.

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by micromacromonkey April 09, 06:04PM

I disagree smiling smiley

Let's try and work out which risks are worth worrying about rather than assigning equal probability and impact to all risks.

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by KidKruger April 09, 07:46PM

What about the deadly infection going around and the need to keep away from one another to avoid spreading the virus ?
Doesnít that figure in the rose-tinted impression too ?

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by hellosailor April 09, 08:27PM

Iím afraid not Allison. I live with two members of my family who are high risk and the virus would likely kill. I donít agree with you and I can only assume that youíre not in the same position. The rules are there to save lives, not to interpret however we wish or be chilled out about. I envy you your relaxed position but itís woefully out of touch with many of the population. It would be fab if it was a case of Ďdonít worry about what anyone else is doing, just chillax and worry about yourselfí but it just isnít. What other people are doing or failing to do will kill people, as in end their lives, they wonít be here anymore. Itís essential we listen to the guidelines.

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by ED Bird April 09, 10:18PM

hellosailor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Iím afraid not Allison. I live with two members of
> my family who are high risk and the virus would
> likely kill. I donít agree with you and I can only
> assume that youíre not in the same position. The
> rules are there to save lives, not to interpret
> however we wish or be chilled out about. I envy
> you your relaxed position but itís woefully out of
> touch with many of the population. It would be fab
> if it was a case of Ďdonít worry about what anyone
> else is doing, just chillax and worry about
> yourselfí but it just isnít. What other people are
> doing or failing to do will kill people, as in end
> their lives, they wonít be here anymore. Itís
> essential we listen to the guidelines.


This.

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by AllisonAdler April 09, 11:12PM

.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit was april 10, 12:41am by AllisonAdler.

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by NewWave April 09, 11:27PM

Rockets Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> KK - wasn't being sarcastic - you seem to be
> having a daily run-in with runners - no pun
> intended. From my experience that seems unlucky -
> as from my own observations I am not having the
> same experience as you: I have been out for my
> daily exercise since the lockdown began and had
> one incident with a runner - I chastised them for
> their foolishness in the hope they would not do it
> again to anyone else.
>
> My point was quite clear - there are idiots (not
> just runners) who are risking their health and the
> health of others by ignoring the rules. The
> government is modelling this (I think they
> estimate it can be anything up to 30% of the
> population who will be non-conformist) and they
> will have a point when they will trigger a most
> stringent lockdown to help control the curve.
>
> Timing is key - you have to phase the lockdown and
> the degrees of severity therein. You can clamour
> for a hard lockdown but you cant do that from the
> get-go because research and experience elsewhere
> shows (unless you are in China and the populous is
> more scared of the government than the virus) that
> after 10 - 14 days people start going back to
> normal.


I'm sorry but it isn't only KK every time that I have been out I have either A; Had a run in with a jogger..or to be more precise have a jogger ignore the distancing rules and run right alongside me sometimes within inches.
And B; Cyclists cycling on the pavement causing me to have to step into peoples gardens or into the road to create space.
Finally Parents with young children..please be mindful and make sure your child retains a distance from those on the pavement..I may have the virus or your child could and give to an elderly passer by.
This morning I was walking along the pavement and a woman was allowing her child to just run ahead of her on its scooter..the child passed within inches of me and when I stepped back off the kerb visibly shocked that the kid (about 7 years old) had brushed right near my shopping bag the mother tutted and shouted "oh for heavens sake! he's only a child!" yes..he was and therefore its her responsibility to protect the health and wellbeing of her child as well as that of others.

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by hellosailor April 09, 11:46PM

Allison, with respect, youíre misinformed.
Coughing and sneezing is not the only way to pass on the virus. If you are carrying the virus - even if youíre symptomless as a significant percentage of infected people are - and you bear down on someone panting and expelling your breath with a force that experts agree far exceeds the reach of a normal dialogue between two people speaking at a 2 metre distance - you are far likelier to pass on the virus than if youíre complying with the 2 metre guidelines.
We have been asked, in no uncertain terms, to keep a minimum 2 metre distance from each other when taking our daily exercise. Jogging isnít an exception. Nothing is an exception. We can flatten the curve and save lives only if everyone does what is asked and doesnít consider themselves a special exception. I love to exercise, Iím used to exercising every day, I wouldnít dream of ignoring the guidelines. Today I witnessed multiple joggers running down the pavement (and this was next to the park) without breaking their momentum, so that families had to choose between walking into the path of oncoming traffic on a main road or staying put and being 30cm away from them as they panted past.
This isnít ok.
If you were out buying food and standing at the till and someone came up behind you and stood a few centimetres away and panted you wouldnít think it was cool. Please donít encourage people to think itís scaremongering, that abiding by the rules is creating an atmosphere of anxiety, that the only way to get ill is to have someone cough on you directly.
Iím pleading with you here, with all people who feel as you do, to take this more seriously. The 2 metre distance isnít a magic shield as you say, but it will save lives. Itís the least we can do. I maintain that I think itís highly unlikely that you live with several people in the high risk category - I just canít imagine youíd have this stance if you did - but I do, my elderly mother and my youngest child who both have health conditions, and I really, really, donít want them to become infected.

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by AllisonAdler April 10, 12:07AM

I completely understand your anxieties, hellosailor, but you (all) misunderstand: I am taking this very seriously and I scrupulously keep my distance when I am out walking. I canít tell you how many times Iíve nearly been mown down by cars, cyclists, and all and sundry trying to do so. I am not misinformed, but I absolutely donít want people thinking I am suggesting not following guidelines, so Iíve deleted my earlier posts. I know we all feel out of control, but it's the constant lashing out that is very hard to see and not to try to mitigate. I apologise if Iíve caused distress. I lost my husband (aged 56) ten years ago to pneumonia and am a cancer survivor myself. I do not come to this callously or with any lack of due diligence in terms of serious medical research, but I see Iím not helping in the way Iíd hoped.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was april 10, 12:53am by AllisonAdler.

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by KidKruger April 10, 12:20AM

Alison, I'll take the odd irate poster on EDF over the advice your are providing (which in my view is dangerous and misleading) any day of the week.
By now many of us know someone, or know someone who knows someone, that has succumbed to this deadly virus.
It may just be the way I read your text, but it comes across as casual and dismissive of behaviours demonstrated by a minority of careless and ignorant people, behaviours which actually ARE dangerous and ARE going to cause more deaths.
No sooner will we be through the first few weeks and we'll be hit by the infections caused through this casual, lazy and self-entitled behaviour.
People are right to point it out, they are right to be concerned and they are right to fear anyone coming too close to them. Now is not the time to be harking on about rights and being polite and not complaining about selfish behaviour, that is way down the priorities because, and this is the important bit, it's literally life and death until beaten.
There isn't much to take a view on and impose personal choice on really.
It's life or death, infected or not infected, protected from casual non-adherence to guidelines, or not.

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by mako April 10, 12:24AM

The BBC today reported on its news feed that The dangerous vapour from a cyclist could be up to 20m and runner I think 10m. This is significantly different to walking or standing still which is why particular attention is being made about their conduct, where also considering they are moving at greater speeds it is harder to maintain even 2m compared to keeping that distance from someone walking. Alison your comment 'However, it is highly unlikely, according to all of the medical experts, that a jogger (or child, or cyclist) running by one in an open space poses a danger.' is factually incorrect (it is very easy to find scientists/virologist suggesting contray to what you write).and I request you retract that comment as others may take it as fact.
The main point still no-one has answered is why does anybody need to be jogging anywhere near anyone else esp on the pavements where even 2m distance cannot be maintained. The exercise argument is also pathetic as the vast majority could just as effectively exercise indoors or in their own gardens.

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by KidKruger April 10, 12:32AM

mako, people are still in belief that their entitlement to proceed as near normal as they are able is sacred.
If that means getting too close to other people, that's other people's tough luck.
My Run Today > Your Life. This is the decision people who get too close are making.
The only way to deal with this is by looking after yourself and your own space when out and about, it means being verbal and getting into it BEFORE the offender gets too close (if they're not running up behind you, obvs).
One may prove unpopular doing this, but the alternative may be drowning in your own phlegm for a few hours, on your own.

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by FlatStanley April 10, 01:19AM

Perhaps we should determine the amount of air a runner emits in 20-30 minutes of jogging whilst in proximity to other humans, versus the air emitted in proximity to others that walkers do in the 60 minutes they are milling about.

Mako, I understand and abhor the joggers who are just not keeping their distance (one ran up behind me in Dulwich park last weekend - there was no one else around...why?!!) but itís better if we all just call these people out immediately rather than tarring every jogger with the same brush. I too should grow some balls and call them out rather than internally curse their ignorance and get worked up. If I felt like someone would confront me, Iíd be less inclined to be an arsehole.

And Mako, the type of people doing this are not the type of people who read a community forum.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was april 10, 01:23am by FlatStanley.

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by ££££ April 10, 01:21AM

I'm ambivalent about the jogging and virus thing, I've not seen any joggers misbehaving.

However, despite that, I'm very glad joggers are getting a hard time because for years I've felt that they're a bunch of absolute strokers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was april 10, 01:22am by ££££.

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by first mate April 10, 07:25AM

On other threads some are framing this as a civil liberties issue and I think that is unhelpful and muddies the waters. This is a finite emergency situation and most people are perfectly able to take some form of vigorous exercise inside their home. Surely this small sacrifice is worth it if it saves lives?

Unfortunately, rather like Boris, there are still lots of people out there who seem to think it wonít happen to them or because they feel well they cannot infect anyone else. Regrettably, no doubt, the runners and cyclists will be out in force to day - warm air and a gentle breeze favours the virus.

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by Burbage April 10, 09:25AM

FlatStanley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> itís better if we all
> just call these people out immediately rather than
> tarring every jogger with the same brush. I too
> should grow some balls and call them out rather
> than internally curse their ignorance

Or carry a full-size umbrella. They're about a metre long and so, held at arm's length, will helpfully indicate the appropriate distance to any wheezing narcissist that happens to be approaching.

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by Rockets April 10, 11:19AM

Mako, you chastise someone and ask them to retract for quoting something they have said yet you quote a BBC News Feed that was linked to the previous post on here that was a less than accurate report of research by medium.com. I was very surprised the BBC added it to their news feed as they are mostly good at fact checking.

The second most dangerous thing at the moment, after the virus itself, is misinformation.

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by mako April 10, 12:21PM

Just stay at home for a few weeks. Its not that hard.

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by keano77 April 10, 01:07PM

mako Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just stay at home for a few weeks. Its not that
> hard.


Oh I dunno. Some people find it hard

French police turn back private jet of holidaymakers from UK

Party of 10 flew into Marseille-Provence airport to be taken by helicopter to luxury Cannes villa

[www.theguardian.com]

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by Rockets April 10, 01:30PM

That French story has so many layers it's just begging to be peeled! Selfish so and so's.


And in Dulwich Park this morning police were on bikes having to move people on who weren't exercising.

messageRe: Joggers, not keeping a asfe distance
Posted by jonnyda1 April 10, 02:39PM

Well Allison, I think your post was about right. EDF has been keeping me entertained over the last few weeks, and your post was about the first on this thread that I agreed with. There will always be a small proportion of of walkers, riders, joggers, people in parks, hoarders who spoil it for everyone. Haters always going to hate. Cheers. J.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was april 10, 02:41pm by jonnyda1.

Goto Page: Previous123456Next
Current Page: 4 of 6

Back to top of page
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
Donate                   Terms of use                  Help & FAQs                   Advertise               RSS rss feed               Copyright 2006 - 2018 East Dulwich Forum