We are trialing a dedicated East Dulwich COVID-19 Area on the forum here - please keep it useful.

Forum Sponsors

www.takeflightacademy.co.uk

http://www.ellyallen.com/

Glazer Delmar

Advertise here

The East Dulwich Forum
The Bishop, The EDT, The Great Exhibition, the Actress or another?
Goto Page: Previous123456Next
Current Page: 4 of 6
messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by Robbie May 08, 06:07PM

diable rouge Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hope this makes sense TE44. Seasonal flu puts a
> lot of pressure on the NHS every winter, despite
> the flu jab reducing the spread and number of
> people being infected. C19 is far more contagious
> than seasonal flu and we have no jab for it. The
> whole point of the lockdown is to prevent the
> spread and thus avoid overwhelming the NHS and
> social care services...

Granted, productive is subjective but I did find this comment to be a productive contribution of yours. It may contradict what the CDC have stated, however I would be inclined to agree with your thought process.

On that note, I would expect some restrictions to be lifted tomorrow given the current widespread availability of hospital beds up and down the country.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by JohnL May 08, 06:18PM

Critical thinking is about challenging others ideas - the challenges can be used to prove or disprove the theory but you need supporting evidence and valid reasoning not just raw emotion and slick presentation.

A lot of truths are presented - but they are well known usually historical truths and used to legitimize the presenters before linking in the dodgy theory. Alien programs do this all the time on History2 and the like, they go through interesting historical fact to catch the interest of the viewer before the line "Space Alien researchers believe ...."

Obviously professional researchers see through this and here's a debunk of just some of the claims

[www.medpagetoday.com]


There are loads similar pages.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit was may 08, 06:25pm by JohnL.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by diable rouge May 08, 06:41PM

JohnL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Critical thinking is about challenging others
> ideas...

I'd argue that critical thinking should also be about challenging your own ideas about others' ideas, something the conspiracy theorists fail to do...

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by TE44 May 08, 07:07PM

DR, I agree, just watched that video and definitely made me question my own beliefs. I was surprised as well asshe is not against vaccines. will put up a link when I can, off to play ppoker.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by Robbie May 08, 07:30PM

diable rouge Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JohnL Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Critical thinking is about challenging others
> > ideas...
>
> I'd argue that critical thinking should also be
> about challenging your own ideas about others'
> ideas, something the conspiracy theorists fail to
> do...

Is that not how conspiracy theories are born though? Challenging your own automatic acceptance (your own idea) of an official narrative (others ideas). Once upon a time a conspiracy theorist thought that the Earth was round.

In other news - The Welsh First Minister has just announced that people will be able to exercise outside more than once a day in Wales and some garden centres set to reopen. I doubt we will see anything more if that in England.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by diable rouge May 08, 07:58PM

Robbie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> diable rouge Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > JohnL Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Critical thinking is about challenging others
> > > ideas...
> >
> > I'd argue that critical thinking should also be
> > about challenging your own ideas about others'
> > ideas, something the conspiracy theorists fail
> to
> > do...
>
> Is that not how conspiracy theories are born
> though? Challenging your own automatic acceptance
> (your own idea) of an official narrative (others
> ideas). Once upon a time a conspiracy theorist
> thought that the Earth was round.

Not quite, I was saying that the conspiracy theorists never challenge their own 'theories', just the targets of their 'theories'...


> In other news - The Welsh First Minister has just
> announced that people will be able to exercise
> outside more than once a day in Wales and some
> garden centres set to reopen. I doubt we will see
> anything more if that in England.

In Wales it was illegal to go outside more than once. There was no such legal diktat for England, Scotland and NI...

The laws in England, Scotland and Northern Ireland do not specify - or limit - how many times per day someone can leave their house for any of these reasons.

Although the Government advice is to exercise once a day, the law does not say how many times a day this is allowed to happen.

But in Wales, exercise is permitted "no more than once a day".


Source: ITV...

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by TE44 May 08, 08:51PM

3min break

Judy mitovic vid, be good to hear what people think of this,

[londonreal.tv]

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by Robbie May 08, 09:30PM

Exosome Theory vs Virus Theory

[lbry.tv]

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by TE44 May 08, 11:10PM

Robbie, I do not believe the PCR test is accurate, i don*t understand how they can a;;ow different levels of amplifications, I have heard this mentioned before and also heard the genetic material can actually be an immune response to being ill. I think the lack of information and unwillingness to share the way these tests work and the implications of the different levels of magnification even within the healing profession frontline workers are expected to have faith in these tests, without having that connection with what tests are being used . I have never heard efexosomes and I was slightly confused with how they caused a problem when they neither cause nor spread infections. the link did not work for me but I found it on youtube. I do believe many thing effect our immune system and I also believe our bodies will react differently. I see there is exosome treatment, I can*t imagine what that would involve, I*ve had a very quick look only. I think the public should be informed about the tests. there should be more transparency.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by TE44 May 08, 11:31PM

The people Judy Mikovitshe is naming in the most atrocious crimes, surely would have some case against her if it was not true, she has been compiling all information since gagging order was lifted. I believe she is a brave woman and I would like to see her accusers respond to what she has to say. I felt she included herself when she spoke about people believing they were doing the right thing.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by Robbie May 09, 12:23AM

TE44 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Robbie, I do not believe the PCR test is accurate,
> i don*t understand how they can a;;ow different
> levels of amplifications, I have heard this
> mentioned before and also heard the genetic
> material can actually be an immune response to
> being ill. I think the lack of information and
> unwillingness to share the way these tests work
> and the implications of the different levels of
> magnification even within the healing profession
> frontline workers are expected to have faith in
> these tests, without having that connection with
> what tests are being used . I have never heard
> efexosomes and I was slightly confused with how
> they caused a problem when they neither cause nor
> spread infections. the link did not work for me
> but I found it on youtube. I do believe many thing
> effect our immune system and I also believe our
> bodies will react differently. I see there is
> exosome treatment, I can*t imagine what that would
> involve, I*ve had a very quick look only. I think
> the public should be informed about the tests.
> there should be more transparency.

This was the first I've seen about an exosome theory and thought I'd share it in case anyone with any knowledge in this area would be kind enough to comment.

What she is claiming could give grounds for libel action. Which reminds me of, and still baffles me to this day, as to why Tom Hanks never took any action against Sarah Ruth Ashcraft when she came out and accused him of buying her of her father for sex when she was 13. His twitter and Instagram accounts have been under constant abuse ever since.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by snowy May 09, 11:11AM

FFS

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by seenbeen May 09, 12:44PM

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]
Work done on an exosomal vaccine after the first SARS outbreak in 2002.
Exosomes just move stuff from cells around the body all the time

As for PCR it's been around for decades ( there was a PCR dedicated lab in Guy's Hospital research floor in 1993 for example) and obviously its accuracy has been fully and regularly investigated or else it would not be admitted as evidence in crimes where DNA analysis is required.
This is a good article about the current tests
[www.nature.com]
These articles are easily found using Google btw- I just Googled 'fast pcr tests'

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by diable rouge May 09, 03:28PM

These conspiracy theorists are the online equivalent of Jehovah's Witnesses, full of false ''let me just leave this with you'' bonhomie. I'm guessing snowy's ''FFS'' is the online equivalent of slamming the door in their faces...smiling smiley

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by JohnL May 09, 06:47PM

Libel

Look what happened with Vernon Unsworth vs Elon Musk, Libel or Slander action isn't a walk in the park.

Trump has never sued about "the russian tapes" either.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was may 09, 06:51pm by JohnL.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by TE44 May 11, 08:52AM

Seen been,thanks for the exosomone link, I will read it later, havent had time, looks very interesting.
Isn't it the DNA that is looked at when the pcr test is done for criminal diagnosis. It is not the same as looking at RNA. I realise the test have been around for a long time, especially when it was at the forefront for HIV,there is some controversay regarding diagnisis with RNA viruses, even now.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by seenbeen May 11, 06:26PM

You can get a sample of RNA and use this process
[www.britannica.com]
to obtain the DNA -it's called RT-PCR

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by Robbie May 11, 06:33PM

This is interesting.

Dr Anthony Fauci director of National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases
Dr Robert Redfield director of Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)
Stephen Hahn commissioner of Food and Drug Administration (FDA)

All 3 were due to testify before the US Senate tomorrow to examine liability during the COVID-19 pandemic. All 3 are now self-isolating but are required to give evidence via videolink. Edit - Fauci will attend wearing a mask.

[www.bbc.co.uk]

[www.congress.gov]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was may 11, 06:35pm by Robbie.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by TE44 May 11, 11:16PM

Robbie, i wonder what that will cover. Do you know if it will be made public, very interesting. Its a shame we don*t have a system set up here for people to be liable for there direction on a social distancing Neil Ferguson which was put forward to save lives but was not followed by himself. I wonder if he got fined. I can almost guarantee he won*t be waiting in a phone queue to get through to Universal Credit.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by Robbie May 12, 12:10AM

TE44 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Robbie, i wonder what that will cover. Do you know
> if it will be made public, very interesting. Its a
> shame we don*t have a system set up here for
> people to be liable for there direction on a
> social distancing Neil Ferguson which was put
> forward to save lives but was not followed by
> himself. I wonder if he got fined. I can almost
> guarantee he won*t be waiting in a phone queue to
> get through to Universal Credit.


I'm not sure TE44 but I expect them to get a grilling about the advice they gave the Government.

A few hours ago the UK Government have also condemmed the advice they receiced.

[www.independent.co.uk]

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by JohnL May 12, 10:18AM

And again I agree what Jeremy Hunt is saying - note he is saying advice from SAGE should have been published - I think he may even maybe hinting SAGE was manipulated by secrecy. Remember , we only went into lockdown because Macron threatened to block UK ports some say.

Jeremy Hunt is not Government at present - he's Chair of a HoC committee I think. Edit: Actually as he was Health Secretary when this system was set-up he is criticising himself smiling smiley



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit was may 12, 10:29am by JohnL.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?attachment
Posted by ianr May 12, 10:45AM

Robbie wrote at 00:10 today:

> A few hours ago the UK Government have
> also condemmed the advice they receiced.
>
> [www.independent.co.uk]

That is a report of Jeremy Hunt's contribution (at 18:01) to yesterday's first part of a Commons debate on Covid-19. A constituency MP is not "the UK Government". If you read the whole of his contribution, which was available yesterday evening at [hansard.parliament.uk] (HTML) and [hansard.parliament.uk] (plain text, 186kB), and which I attach, it seems fairly clear that his principal criticism is of the secrecy of SAGE proceedings and reports. For that the government holds responsibility. His speech concluded:
Had SAGE’s advice been published in January, an army of scientists from our universities could have challenged why test, track and trace was not being modelled. They could have demanded a ramp-up of testing and challenged the behavioural assumptions that delayed lockdown. We cannot know for certain, but the result may well have been better subsequent advice and many lives saved.

British science is world-beating because we have always championed inventiveness and encouraged challenge, so let us sweep aside the secrecy that surrounds SAGE and publish what it recommends, including dissenting views. In that way, we will harness the robust exchange of ideas, which has always been one of our greatest national strengths, and, as the Prime Minister said yesterday, come out of this crisis wiser and stronger.
The debate continues this afternoon.

[Ed: attached filename date corrected]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was may 12, 10:50am by ianr.

Attachments: Covid-19_debate_Commons_20050511_Jeremy_Hunt_MP.txt (4.5KB)  
messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by seenbeen May 12, 12:14PM

No-One stood a chance
[www.axios.com]

and the WHO have now U turned on their 'wet market' stance

[www.youtube.com]

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by JohnL May 12, 01:03PM

There's obviously some issues about US-China (or Trump-China). Anyone who saw today's Trump news conference and the reaction of one of the press corps to Trump before he walked away can see that.

She seemed really upset.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by Blah Blah May 12, 04:16PM

Saying that wet markets are a source of livelihood (a point I also made) is not the same as saying they should not be banned. The link you cite Seenbeen is the opinion of one WHO expert, and an opinion in which he states that these markets are at a high risk of causing viral outbreaks. It is not an official WHO statement on policy however. That is an assumption being made by the news channel reporting on it, which is probably why it is being reported nowhere else.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by seenbeen May 12, 08:10PM

Blah Blah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Saying that wet markets are a source of livelihood
> (a point I also made) is not the same as saying
> they should not be banned. The link you cite
> Seenbeen is the opinion of one WHO expert, and an
> opinion in which he states that these markets are
> at a high risk of causing viral outbreaks. It is
> not an official WHO statement on policy however.
> That is an assumption being made by the news
> channel reporting on it, which is probably why it
> is being reported nowhere else.

The WHO is sitting on the fence as it did in 2002- for financial reasons- this is unacceptable and I hope the nations around the world make their own arrangements.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by Robbie May 13, 12:05AM

JohnL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There's obviously some issues about US-China (or
> Trump-China). Anyone who saw today's Trump news
> conference and the reaction of one of the press
> corps to Trump before he walked away can see
> that.
>
> She seemed really upset.

It was shocking how she tried to play the race card. That was CBS reporter Weijia Jiang - part of the fake news brigade.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by rahrahrah May 13, 08:01AM

Trump is clearly corrupt, temperamental and incompetent. Anyone who watches his incoherent rants and childish tweets and still thinks ‘that’s my guy’, is beyond help.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by Mark May 13, 09:00AM

I agree with robbie (shock!) that she tried to play the race card to quickly, she was chomping at the bit to get one over on him. I disagree that CBS are part of the fake news brigade.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by KidKruger May 13, 09:03AM

Robbie - you think the reporter was selected on ethnicity by the news outlet she works for to represent at Trump's daily conference ?
And her being there was used to try and inflate the 'USA v China' question ?
I don't think so at all.
Trump is a numpty, can't control his mouth and says rude things to a lot of people, guess who the benefit of the doubt goes to when dealing with people like that ?
That's right, not him !

Robbie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JohnL Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > There's obviously some issues about US-China
> (or
> > Trump-China). Anyone who saw today's Trump
> news
> > conference and the reaction of one of the press
> > corps to Trump before he walked away can see
> > that.
> >
> > She seemed really upset.
>
> It was shocking how she tried to play the race
> card. That was CBS reporter Weijia Jiang - part of
> the fake news brigade.

Goto Page: Previous123456Next
Current Page: 4 of 6

Back to top of page
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
Donate                   Terms of use                  Help & FAQs                   Advertise               RSS rss feed               Copyright 2006 - 2018 East Dulwich Forum