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messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by TE44 September 12, 10:28PM

Sephiroth.what has happened through government policies world wide is not a distraction. How do you pick and choose what is to be believed when you know governments have tried to cover there mistakes.you say above none of the effects of the policies put in place eg suicides, job loss deaths etc matter much if we lose to many people to a virus we don't know how to deal with yet. This makes no sense to me, that people should be put through the most cruellest situations, lives absolutely lost, the whole world thrown into uncertainty, poverty a certainty, when for years they have been looking and planning how they would deal with a worldwide pandemic. We have seen confusion with figures, we've seen confusion with tests and an overall confusion with accuracy that has nothing to do with the virus. Hopefully the people who have made decisions that have took lives will be made to answer for there part in this. When the professor and journalist became emotional it was because it does matter what is happening to the vulnerable, the dying, without respect for death the respect for life diminishes.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by Blah Blah September 13, 12:44AM

TE44, would you prefer if 40 million people died from covid over the next 18 months globally instead? Genuine question. How many deaths are too many?

Epidemiology and exponential growth have been done to death on this forum.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by Blah Blah September 13, 12:57AM

You asked about suicide data TE44. You can find tables here (link below) but the first quarter of 2020 was in line with previous years. The second quarter (which is the spring/ early summer) shows a significant decrease on previous years. Figures for the third quarter are not available yet. Suicide is a complex issue and understanding a decrease is as valid as understanding any increase. It is quite possible that the decrease is the result of people being able to spend more time at home, without the stress of work life and other things. To assume the trend would only go the other way is a bit premature.

[www.ons.gov.uk]

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by TE44 September 13, 08:42AM

Blah blahAs II saaid the figures for suicide can take up to a year to be added to official stats. Only time will tell. Im not going to put links up, as although there are great concerns worldwide only time will tell. I believe 6million people die of starvation every year, what a shame the governments couldnt put rules in place regarding there governing and greed. 10million half price meals, great way to bring people together at this timm. Oh yeah, helping people. We can sit in a restuarent with how many people, but you can't be with your dying family. What about these deaths, or would you rather sit in a restuarant full of people worrying about the 40 million that might die???

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by Blah Blah September 13, 12:55PM

And as I pointed out to you, suicide rates actually went DOWN in the first three months of the lockdown period. Why are you always questioning the facts, even when the evidence is presented to you? There is no evidence as yet that suicides rates are going up in this quarter either. So just stop it please.

I ask you again, how many people are you prepared to let die globally from a pandemic? 40 million not enough for you obviously? That people already die from other things is irrelevant. You are arguing that we add another 40 million to that!

There is a very good reason why family were not allowed to sit next to a highly infectious relatives, in hospitals filling up with dying and serious ill patients, being cared for by overworked and stressed out doctors and nurses, more than a 100 of whom died themselves, having caught this thing at that front line. You have no idea what you are talking about and help no-one TE44.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by TE44 September 13, 04:13PM

What is the good reason now Blah blah for not being allowed to sit with dying family an assumption we'll save millions of lives.can you answer me where 40 million come from or are you just making up a figure under the global yearly death toll. What facts can you give me about where that figure come from. Or maybe its from another Imperial College expert. You don't seem so keen to acknowledge experts studies on effects of these policies. There are many people questioning the contradictory facts and rightly so or else we would all end of terrified of coming out our house. Imagine people having an opinion that doesn't fit in with the experts, the experts that are at odds with one another. A media we can't trust, a world health organisation that has been banned from countries in the world. Who are you being helpful to, outside of the EDF.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was september 13, 04:15pm by TE44.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by j.a. September 13, 04:17PM

Gotta say TE44, crackpot though you are, the way you avoid answering direct questions is admirable. Great dedication to your cult there. Youíre still an idiot, but at least youíre committed.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by TE44 September 13, 05:24PM

J.a. Seriously I think you need help. Be careful if you behave and ttalk like you are on here you may have to try to avoid being committed, but I expect not.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by Sephiroth September 13, 05:31PM

?????

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by TE44 September 13, 05:37PM

Sephiroth, committed also known as sectioned. I expect j.a. does not speak how she is speaking to me, face to face. Sorry I know I am not clear at times.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by j.a. September 13, 05:40PM

TE44 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> J.a. Seriously I think you need help. Be careful
> if you behave and ttalk like you are on here you
> may have to try to avoid being committed, but I
> expect not.


Ahahaaahaha! Like you know me... Iíd happilly tell you to your face that being an anti-vaxxer makes you a clear and present danger to the human race, and your insistence in believing crackpot theories you cherry pick off the web over solid science (see every post Blah Blah has made) demonstrates and emotional attachment to a view of the world which you canít begin to question.

Your a conspiracy theorist. Fine, itís your problem. If it was limited to Covidiocy Iíd probably ignore you but, as I say, anti-vaxxer, and people like you have to be opposed at every turn.
What is it about smallpox, polio, German measles, cervical cancer and tetanus (to name but a few) you like so much, anyway? Iíve heard of medical fetishes but thatís just weird. Donít bother answering, Iím gonna ignore you for a while. Got a family and all that. Iím sure Iíll swing past your drivel at some point soon though. Kisses.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was september 13, 05:52pm by j.a..

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by TE44 September 13, 06:29PM

J.a. you'll find I can question, its not against the law yet. Where would the vaccine damage payment be, who would acknowledge many mistakes and millions of pounds worth of fines from your pharmaceuticals if it wasn't people questioning from a different view. Enjoy the rest of the day with your family.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by Blah Blah September 13, 10:20PM

I think you'll find TE44 that there are different protocols at the moment that are the discretion of a hospital and their staff. Before anyone can go near a highly infectious patient, they have to be put into full protection PPE, and it is not always practical to do that for non essential medical staff let alone relatives. You just have no idea what you are talking about.

The 40 million comes from the 0.3 percent death rate that increasing data suggests. But you are deflecting. Are you happy to risk 40 million people dying? Just answer the question.

As for expert studies, my job depends on reading them frequently. It is one of the reasons I am able to debunk every nonsensical rabbit hole some people fall down so easily. Those expert studies (that you dismiss so out of hand) are also the reason why people get the care they need. Heaven help us if were left to you and the cranks you like to cite.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by TE44 September 14, 02:01AM

Are you reading the Neil Fergusons papers afrom Imperial College Blah Blah. Are you prepared to put peoples mental health at risk, peoples livelyhood, make peoples last days on this planet hell. 650,000 deaths a year worldwide
From flu, increase yearly despite vaccines. "Those expert studies are the reason people get care you need", open your eyes, have you got any older family in care homes. Your so concerned about debunking people who have different experiences, views, you cant see past your own importance, oops sorry i mean the experts you follow. What a perfect world we would have with all these experts that are never wrong, that is if its the experts you are reading.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by JohnL September 14, 08:47AM

Kay Burley just mentioned as a sort of aside that students are banned from having parties in student accommodation.

or as the Sun puts it "Randy freshers will be stopped from bonking because of the coronavirus pandemic."

How will they cope smiling smiley

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by rahrahrah September 14, 03:04PM

If the R rate continues to rise significantly, does anyone think Johnson will try to impose full lockdown again, or would it just be too politically difficult now?

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by JohnL September 14, 03:20PM

Curfew is coming I think maybe 10PM - 4AM.

Just the word Curfew will wind up some.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by Blah Blah September 14, 11:19PM

TE44 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are you reading the Neil Fergusons papers afrom
> Imperial College Blah Blah. Are you prepared to
> put peoples mental health at risk, peoples
> livelyhood, make peoples last days on this planet
> hell. 650,000 deaths a year worldwide
> From flu, increase yearly despite vaccines. "Those
> expert studies are the reason people get care you
> need", open your eyes, have you got any older
> family in care homes. Your so concerned about
> debunking people who have different experiences,
> views, you cant see past your own importance, oops
> sorry i mean the experts you follow. What a
> perfect world we would have with all these experts
> that are never wrong, that is if its the experts
> you are reading.

Nope, I am not letting you get away with this nonsense. I just gave you a clue, in that my job requires a certain level of medical education and continuous reading of new peer reviewed research. You are out of your depth.

I just gave you EVIDENCE that suicide rates were down, by a sizeable margin in the first three months of lockdown. You are making assumptions when you should be waiting for the facts. The figures for the second three months seem to be heading the same way. Anecdotal local experience is not representative of anything. That is why I dismiss it. You have to look at the facts overall. And from there, local anomalies can be investigated. You have presented no evidence of anything. Just a load of easily debunked nonsense from cranks that share your conspiracist world view.

Yes there are indeed half a million flu deaths globally every year on average. 80 percent of them though are people who did not have the vaccine. But you are offering this against potentially 40 million dying from Covid. So you still are making irrelevant comparisons. I ask you again, how many people dying from Covid is too many? I keep asking you the question. You keep refusing to answer it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was september 15, 04:04am by Blah Blah.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by TE44 September 15, 01:38AM

Blah Blah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You asked about suicide data TE44. You can find
> tables here (link below) but the first quarter of
> 2020 was in line with previous years. The second
> quarter (which is the spring/ early summer) shows
> a significant decrease on previous years. Figures
> for the third quarter are not available yet.
> Suicide is a complex issue and understanding a
> decrease is as valid as understanding any
> increase. It is quite possible that the decrease
> is the result of people being able to spend more
> time at home, without the stress of work life and
> other things. To assume the trend would only go
> the other way is a bit premature.
>
> [www.ons.gov.uk]
> y/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/deathsc
> ausedbysuicidebyquarterinengland


From the link blah blah put up
Figures are for deaths registered rather than deaths occuring ineach cslendar year. Due to the length of time it takes to complete a coroners inquesr, it can take moths or even years for a suicide to be registered.
The lower number of registered deaths in the second quarter of 2020 reflects delays to inquests cause by the coronavirus (covid19).

Figures for deaths are provisional and will be finalised in late 2021 in the annual"Suicides in the Uk"

Considering you read studies blah blah, your response to my post shows how you were more concerned in debunking me you missed out the point I was making, which was right there for you to see but you chose to see a reality of people having less stress through having time off work and other things. You seem to be able to be more positive the deaths will be lower regarding suicides regardless of an explanation why this may be. Your understanding of what you read seems to be limited by beliefs not what you are actually reading. I understand now why you would be unable to read anything from scientists disagreeing with the 40million deaths that haven't happened. Sorry I believe you call the cranks.

Can you give me the facts on the 80% of unvaccinated flu deaths

You can see what I have quoted from blah blahs link by downloading figuree for 2020, opening then press table 1 and open. Just incase its not easy for anyone to find it



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit was september 15, 02:47am by TE44.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by seenbeen September 15, 10:10AM

Pubs might have to close early
[www.mirror.co.uk]

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by Blah Blah September 15, 11:00AM

And that is why you wait for the facts to be evidenced TE44. You don't just make stuff up because you want it to be true. The figures show a drop in quarterly suicide rates. That is the fact I have referenced. What that means in reality takes longer to establish. I have said that very clearly. You are just not reading my posts properly, and still you ignore the question I keep asking you. How many global deaths from covid would be acceptable to you? You can deflect all you like, but until you answer that, I will keep asking.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by TE44 September 15, 12:47PM

Yes blah blah you made it very clear regarding numbers but managed to omit the information above which was the point I made regarding Louis Appleby not giving real time figures and length of time before we know. I am surprised, as someone who works reading papers you would fail to agree with my point and now claim I am not reading your post, when you have added to your reading of INS figures an assumption why the figures are lower. Yoy would rather look at figures assumed and are becoming rather pedantic. Keep on asking, Im sure the horror and fear of 40,000 million people dying puts some distance for you between the horror of people dying now. It also seems to be measured in a way that attempts to lessen peoples fears, pain, losses and poverty which is goin to create more death. No there is no % I'm going to quote, respect for life is not found in a chart. People dying of starvation is not acceptable, whether it be one person or 6,000,000. I have no wish to start quoting figures being made around the devastation that is very likely to come because of policies, why, beacause I believe we should be looking at the people being affected now. Recognising the damage being done, the divide being created, and the control and attempt to put our lives in the hand of experts. The same experts that have put our vulnerable at risk. Whilst continueing to blame us and continueing to scare the life out of people.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by Blah Blah September 15, 12:49PM

Stop deflecting TE44. How many deaths from covid have to happen before they are too many? Answer that. You do realise that they have already exceeded the annual flu death toll right, in just six months with lockdown measures in place? So answer the question and let's see how many people you want to die.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was september 15, 12:51pm by Blah Blah.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by Blah Blah September 15, 12:55PM

And to be clear TE44, globally, we are close to 1 million deaths. How high do you think that figure would be without governments around the world taking measures to slow and stop spread? Are you really so unable to see the reasoning behind the measures? Covid is blowing everything else out of the water right now. That is what a global pandemic does.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by TE44 September 15, 12:57PM

Have a good day, I'm off out to enjoy this glorious day and who knows encounter that human trait of socialising. Theres a question, how many people socialising together is acceptable? Common sense may have to be redefined.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by TE44 September 15, 12:59PM

And as I said blah blah, the figures arent in yet of the damage done outside of covid.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by Blah Blah September 15, 01:02PM

Answer the question. How many deaths is too many? Clearly nearly 1 million is not enough for you. That speaks for itself and is why no-one is listening to you.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by TE44 September 15, 01:19PM

It may be blowing everything out of the water for you, I dont believe it is for most people. Yes its changed everyones life, We are apart and a part. Although most people are involved with there own lives whilst at the same time having to rely on many systems for connection to outside realities, news etc. Many of these systems are corrupt and unfit for the purpose they say they stand for. I believe what we are seeing is people, I include myself, who have a great distrust for many of these system, others who have not had time whilst working, paying bills living in a constant state of having to manage there own life etc at the same time choosing there own forms of relaxing and freedom. I have faith in people and the longer these contradictions go on the more people are questioning these experts. The confusion caused by these policies have absolutely thrown peoples lives into nightmares we couldn't imagine. But I suppose its easier for some to think of a worse nightmare than ackniwledge the one we are in. I really am going out now, come back sun.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by j.a. September 15, 01:39PM

ďpeople are questioning these experts.Ē

Aaaaand there it is. The core of what you think is a coherent argument. Your experts are ok, other peopleís are somehow Ďwrongí.

Iím really enjoying how you canít see the flaw in your own position. Please continue!

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by rahrahrah September 15, 02:08PM

It's good to hear that a special exemption is being granted to people hunting with guns. They can meet in groups up to 30. 😒

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