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messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by Blah Blah May 03, 04:53PM

diable rouge Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> David Icke recently had his Facebook account
> closed due to the dangerous conspiracy theories
> and disinformation he was peddling.
> Perhaps Admin would like to review some of the
> recent posts on here under the guise of
> 'information'?...

Agreed. Robbie is clearly now using the forum to peddle conspiracy theories.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by edcam May 03, 05:08PM

Is this thread about the Illuminati? 🙄

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by Blah Blah May 03, 05:22PM

In a nutshell, yes Edcam. It is the alt right rabbit hole.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by Robbie May 03, 06:50PM

It amuses me when I see pathetic keyboard warriors that can't resist an insult or something derogatory in most of their comments.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by Robbie May 03, 06:53PM

edcam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is this thread about the Illuminati? 🙄


It wasn't originally, no. Someone mentioned Qanon which then deviated the discussion from the topic at hand.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by Blah Blah May 03, 07:32PM

Robbie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It amuses me when I see pathetic keyboard warriors
> that can't resist an insult or something
> derogatory in most of their comments.

It amuses me when I see links to scientific articles that the conspiracy theorist poster doesn't understand. Still waiting for you to point where that article suggests the splicing of two viruses Robbie. Don't take too long now ;)

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by gromit3:16 May 03, 07:47PM

I love trump.

that is all...

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?attachment
Posted by Robbie May 03, 07:49PM

Blah Blah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Robbie Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It amuses me when I see pathetic keyboard
> warriors
> > that can't resist an insult or something
> > derogatory in most of their comments.
>
> It amuses me when I see links to scientific
> articles that the conspiracy theorist poster
> doesn't understand. Still waiting for you to point
> where that article suggests the splicing of two
> viruses Robbie. Don't take too long now ;)

Attachments: HIV CoV.JPG (148.6KB)  
messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by Blah Blah May 03, 09:07PM

Oh dear Robbie. Stop embarrassing yourself. You haven't a clue what you posted is about have you? And by the way, your claim was splicing SARS with HIV - nothing says that either does it?

The paragraph you are posting is talking about creating DNA pathways to test the protein process of the SARS virus. Using Chimera in this way, is one of many stages in developing vaccines.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit was may 03, 09:15pm by Blah Blah.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by TE44 May 03, 10:17PM

Blah blah, a chimera is a single organism composed of cells with more that one genotype. Splicing may not be the proper terminology but ,I may be wrong I got the impression that Robbie was implying the mixing of the diffrent viruses.
Yes vaccines are developed like this and have been shown to bring about mutations. You are scientifically aware, I think to educate or share your knowledge would be better delivered without insults.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was may 03, 10:32pm by TE44.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by Blah Blah May 03, 10:46PM

Point taken TE44, but it is hard to have respect for a person who posts science they don't understand as evidence for a conspiracy theory they want to believe, and then carries on pretending like they understand the science they have posted when called out. For those of us who do understand the science, it has been a very frustrating month debunking these conspiracy theories. Even the American Intelligence Agency have clearly stated the virus did not come out of a Chinese lab, after Trump claimed to have seen evidence it did.

The link that Robbie posted, cites the results of research into the mutation of SARS CoV from its original host in Bats. In 2007 (the year of that research), China was working towards a vaccine for the first SARS outbreak in 2002/3. There is nothing unusual about this research or the processes it uses. Pseudoviruses for example, are engineered copies of the virus being studied, with the ability to replicate itself removed. In other words, it renders the virus safe to work on in a lab. Without the ability to replicate itself, even if it gets into a living cell, a virus is benign. The purpose of this study was to look at the protein impacts on ACE2 receptors.

So why does Robbie use this article then?

Because it is a Chinese lab report that mentions HIV (as a separate study) and talks about creating pseudoviruses etc. Therefore it must mean that the Chinese created a virus by 'splicing' SARS and HIV together. It does not seem to matter to him that the report doesn't actually say that. And even more poignant question would be to ask him who passed that link onto him?

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by TE44 May 03, 11:31PM

Blah blah, Thanks I appreciate your explaining, but I do have concerns myself as although psuedovirus developing
falls into a biolevel 2 for safety, there are stll safety issues. Link to
HIV psuedovirus link.

[www.healio.com]

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by Robbie May 04, 12:54AM

I found this article quite interesting. It mentions the type of work carried out at the Wuhan lab, as well as the CSIRO lab in Australia.

[www.dailytelegraph.com.au]

Genuine question, and it is what I was originally referring to - Irrespective of belief or what the current general consensus may be, is it possible that something may have escaped from the lab in mutated form, be it whether the mutation occurred inside or outside the lab?

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by Blah Blah May 04, 02:42AM

TE44 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Blah blah, Thanks I appreciate your explaining,
> but I do have concerns myself as although
> psuedovirus developing
> falls into a biolevel 2 for safety, there are stll
> safety issues. Link to
> HIV psuedovirus link.

Yes there are risks involved. But this is why pseudovirus copies are used and not the actual virus itself. The incident referenced in your link should never happen and I am sure procedures were tightened up at that lab as a result. No-one understands the risks more than those who work at a lab.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by Blah Blah May 04, 03:30AM

To answer your question Robbie there are two things to consider.

It is not unusual for labs to research pathogens from animal species. Many labs around the world do that. And three years ago, a programme began to try and decode every pathogen hosted by every animal species. The idea being that if the genome sequence for every zoonotic virus that exists is recorded, it will enhance the ability to develop vaccines and prevent future pandemics.

Bats are the most pathogenic species on the planet, which puts them high on the list for research. They carry at least 60 different zoonotic viruses alone, but do not get ill from them. And bats are found everywhere, not just in China. It does not surprise me that viral research in Wuhan is focused on bats, especially after the first SARS outbreak in 2003. The Wuhan laboratory has published a lot of useful research around immunology. One of the key areas for virology and immunology is in finding a way to prevent cytokine storms. This is where the body overproduces antibodies to fend off a virus, causing the body to attack its own organs. Bats immune systems do not do this. The labs doing that kind of research are level 4 labs.

So the second point to consider is the risk. If any country is going to do this kind of research, it needs to employ the highest level of biotech safety. If there is a lapse in that protocol, then yes, it is perfectly possible for a virus to accidentally leave a lab, either in its original form, or in a mutated form. And as the link that TE44 posts above shows, it can simply be a wrongly labelled sample. A level 3 intermediate sample, finds its way into a level 2 batch of pseudovirus samples. There were a couple of incidents of lab workers catching SARS in a lab, one in Beijing in 2004 and one in Singapore. However, in relation to COVID, the science does not point to either a lab creation or mutation. There are ways of seeing that if that were the case. What does not help though is that China has a track record of secrecy and covering up previous SARS outbreaks. So it is not hard to see why suspicion is easily roused.

My own view is that I think it very unlikely that anything escaped from a level 4 lab (even in China). Covid is not a direct infection from a bat. It needed an intermediate animal host to mutate. But we may never know for sure what that intermediate host is, nor where exactly the first transmission to human took place (patient zero) unfortunately.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was may 04, 03:45am by Blah Blah.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by Mark May 04, 05:07PM

Robbie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Out Of The Shadows - This documentary lifts the
> mask on how the mainstream media & Hollywood
> manipulate & control the masses ...
> End of the Cabal - This is a compilation of a 10
> part documentary that goes into a lot more
> detail.
>
> [www.youtube.com]
> s&has_verified=1

Awesome entertainment, I've not the time or inclination to watch much of it but the bit I saw had a naked man jumping and falling from a Buckingham Palace window, on which "the Palace refused to comment" and "the police have not investigated" therefore proof that the Royals are involved and it's covered up by the Met. All very Chris Morris but it was actually a stunt for a TV programme [vimeo.com] but facts are not important here, facts just get in the way of the truth.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by Robbie May 05, 11:38PM

Thank you Blah blah that was very informative, the sort of discussion my original post was intended to generate.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by Robbie May 05, 11:40PM

How accurate are the figures we are reading? Goats, fruit and other non-human samples are testing positive for Covid-19

[www.reuters.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was may 06, 01:48am by Robbie.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by JohnL May 06, 08:30AM

I saw two mutation stories yesterday

1 - the virus has undergone a mutation similar to the one SARS-1 did before that virus became less dangerous (could be a sign the pandemic may end)

[medicalxpress.com]

2 - the virus underwent a mutation in February and became much more virulent (contagious not deadly) - maybe those who caught the original virus could also catch the mutation

[www.latimes.com]

Sheffield is mentioned below as a hotspot of mutant strain C

[eu.usatoday.com]

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by JohnL May 06, 08:37AM

Robbie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How accurate are the figures we are reading?
> Goats, fruit and other non-human samples are
> testing positive for Covid-19
>
> [www.reuters.com]
> rus-tanzania/tanzania-suspends-laboratory-head-aft
> er-president-questions-coronavirus-tests-idUSKBN22
> G295?fbclid=IwAR3Zgm_G45-FCjWYS-p89lH0YmqYoncgCf2R
> LLe6x_xUAaH8XjJ_Pw9EFWw

Hmm - [www.telegraph.co.uk]

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by KidKruger May 06, 08:43AM

Does anybody know where the daily death toll is being reported and whether that toll is actually reported afresh each day ?
BBC state the alleged no invariably, but I'm hoping for a better source.
Ta.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by seenbeen May 06, 12:05PM

KidKruger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does anybody know where the daily death toll is
> being reported and whether that toll is actually
> reported afresh each day ?
> BBC state the alleged no invariably, but I'm
> hoping for a better source.
> Ta.

I just watch to the daily Downing Street briefing where they report the numbers and show the graphs of the situation up to yesterday. 5pm weekdays + 4pm weekends.

It's quite entertaining to hear the media spin as most of them have obviously not listened to what the government advisers have said over the weeks and they all keep trying to get the minister to speculate on the end of the lockdown, or the nature of the easing of the lockdown. And it is also obvious that they are not looking into the situation themselves but instead pick out stuff to score political points.

They all go on and on about us not doing loads of testing at the beginning when it was clearly stated that the tests we had early on were analyzed and found to be not accurate enough to use and therefore useless.
And [metro.co.uk]

Also they seem to have lost sight of the fact that the problems the UK has are the same problems the rest of the world has.
An interesting piece of information I saw concerning PPE - it is early April but
[www.telegraph.co.uk]

Makes you wonder what happened to our assignment due from Turkey some weeks ago.

Investigative reporting is dead

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by diable rouge May 06, 12:16PM

It's quite entertaining to see someone criticise media spin of events, and then source media outlets for their own spin of events...

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by TE44 May 06, 12:55PM

I believe we are similiarly connected with plants and animals, plants can have viruses which have a similiar behaviour, my plum tree has been infected with a fungus. I am still not clear around the tests being used or the accuracy. has there been a definite identification of the virus. Ive looked a little at RT-pcr test, which i believe looked at genetic material similiar to SARS 1. I don*t know which tests are being used now and I have been surprised with a couple of friends of mine who are working on front line,who do not know either what tests are being used. It would be a step towards understanding if the scientist, government could explain as much as possible in laymans term and keep us up to date with tests being used and how they work. one person can do this. I would find this information helpful instead of this constant delivery of fear and contradictions.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by ianr May 06, 02:41PM

What do you think of, from the transatlantic cousins, the regularly updated Master Question List for COVID-19, from [www.dhs.gov]? There's also a more practical PANTHR COVID-19 Fact Sheet from [www.dhs.gov]. See also [www.dhs.gov].

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by JohnL May 06, 03:34PM

seenbeen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's quite entertaining to hear the media spin as
> most of them have obviously not listened to what
> the government advisers have said over the weeks
> and they all keep trying to get the minister to
> speculate on the end of the lockdown, or the
> nature of the easing of the lockdown. And it is
> also obvious that they are not looking into the
> situation themselves but instead pick out stuff to
> score political points.

an end to some parts of the lockdown is now happening on Monday allegedly. That's without much discussion at all

Is that media pressure or other pressure or are they scared about the economy ?

[www.theguardian.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit was may 06, 03:38pm by JohnL.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by Robbie May 06, 10:18PM


messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by Robbie May 06, 10:45PM

KidKruger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does anybody know where the daily death toll is
> being reported and whether that toll is actually
> reported afresh each day ?
> BBC state the alleged no invariably, but I'm
> hoping for a better source.
> Ta.


I believe the official figures are from Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC)

[www.gov.uk]


The Office of National Statistics has some insightful data:

[www.ons.gov.uk]

90% of Covid-19 deaths are aged over 65, and 9 out of 10 deaths had underlying health issues. This naturally raises the question as to why the whole country and economy is on lockdown, rather than just the over 65's and those with health issues.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by malumbu May 07, 12:12AM

Because without lockdown 80% of the population could get it, and that would be several hundred thousand dying. That includes 10s of 1000s without underlying health problems or of older age. Remember the pictures of Italy when they went into meltdown.

messageRe: COVID-19 Fact or Fiction?
Posted by Robbie May 07, 12:38AM

malumbu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Because without lockdown 80% of the population
> could get it, and that would be several hundred
> thousand dying. That includes 10s of 1000s
> without underlying health problems or of older
> age. Remember the pictures of Italy when they went
> into meltdown.

Do you have a source at all for that 80%? The provisional testing analysis shows that approx. 10% of those tested either currently have or have had it previously so that seems pretty high.

The situation in Northern Italy was very much exacerbated by the lack of medical professionals and equipment. Doctors were placed into a position where they pretty much had to choose who survived. This is according to my Italian housemate who is a Neurologist at Kings, and has gone back home to help out over there.

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