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The East Dulwich Forum
The Bishop, The EDT, The Great Exhibition, the Actress or another?
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messageIs Boris fit to lead?
Posted by TheCat May 20, 03:33PM

Despite the click bait headline.....I'd like to avoid all the colourful partisan and non-partisan judgements of his character and capabilities (or lack thereof, depending on your viewpoint).

No...what I mean is...since he got out of hospital..by my count he's made 3 or 4 public appearances (not counting PMQ's)....and 2 of them were pre-recorded. I may have missed one, but you get the gist. He's totally invisible. And even if you don't like anything the man does or says, it seems highly out of character for him not to be seeking more of the limelight. His PMQ performances have been shoddy at best...it cant ALL be down to starmer (despite him coming across very well).. Boris just looks shockingly poorly prepared (again, many will write that off as 'just boris', but there must be more to it). I'm also hearing from people who might have a clue, that he's really not right and struggling.

Were he not the prime minister, and were we not experiencing an unprecedented crisis, I've no doubt he would have spent quite a lot longer recuperating than he did.

Any thoughts on wether he's operating at 100 percent? (And yes, I know that '100 percent of boris' is still well short of many people's expectations of our PM)......

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by DulwichFox May 20, 03:38PM

No.. I don't think he is 100% Fit.

I think he is struggling..

DulwichFox

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by dbboy May 20, 03:58PM

Listen to the dreadful at present James O'brien who hasn't got a good word to say about Boris and slates him at every opportunity, but never comes up with solutions. James O'B was never as bad as this, but the last six months he's been hideous to listen to spouting his champagne socialism.

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by KidKruger May 20, 04:33PM

Not fit to lead, IMO wasn't fit to lead before Covid anyway.
Bojo's last 'appearance' in the HoC was silly from what I heard on radio, Kier Starmer asking an obvious question about care home protections based on a select committee yesterday where unfortunate truths were aired, BoJo answering a completely different question that was not asked (three times !) and floundering badly while doing so. I can't say that was due to his being not fully recovered from Covid, I don't actually care, he was to me obviously playing with different articulations to play-down a very serious point from Labour.

dbboy - I think JoB is genuinely aghast that a person such as BoJo can actually become leader in this country, that so many lies can be told around Brexit with no comeback, that blatant lies can be told during conferences to the public/media with no accountability and he invites callers to air their concerns - some whom agree with JoB, some who don't. Let's be frank, it's hard to find positives with the Govt, it's leadership, Brexit dealings and handling of Covid19. Isn't it ?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was may 20, 04:35pm by KidKruger.

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by Blah Blah May 20, 04:48PM

Boris has a track record of being poor on detail, so he finds any scenario where his is not controlling the narrative difficult. He will never be a match for Starmer at PMQ's for example because of that. The reason why a British woman is languishing in a prison term in Iran is also because he can not grasp details.

He is invisible for the same reason any leader is invisible, because he is a liability who is prone to making stuff up on the hoof. He was no more visible before he got ill btw.

Fundamentally, Boris is lazy, has never worked full time at anything and has winged it for most of his life. I personally thinks he finds the reality of being PM challenging and that is worrying because it invariably leads to an over reliance on advisors and ministers. Fine if you are surrounded by genuine talent. Bad if you are surrounded by mediocrity and narcissism.

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by diable rouge May 20, 05:05PM

He's clearly struggling post infection but ''Where's Boris'' was a thing well before the crisis when he buggered off on holiday and also missed 5 consecutive Cobra meetings in the build-up to the crisis. His PMQ performances have always been just that, performances, except he hasn't got the braying support of his public school entourage behind him. He also can't handle someone like Starmer who deals in detail and asks pertinent questions rather than the edited viral soundbites Corbyn would go for. Johnson has never liked scrutiny either, witness his refusal to be interviewed by Andrew Neil. He's been found out to be the poundshop Churchill he is...

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by wordsworth May 20, 05:17PM

dbboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Listen to the dreadful at present James O'brien
> who hasn't got a good word to say about Boris and
> slates him at every opportunity, but never comes
> up with solutions. James O'B was never as bad as
> this, but the last six months he's been hideous to
> listen to spouting his champagne socialism.

Don't listen to him then. There isn't a good word to say about Johnson... but many to describe him and his cabal about their incompetent handling of this virus.

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by KidKruger May 20, 05:26PM

The guy should just step-down, now is a good time - he could explain it's due to recent illness and needing time with new child.
He's guaranteed to be Lord Johnson now, so what else to do ?
He's loaded (his family is loaded) so surely he's done it all now, try and do something useful with his life like bring up the kid.
But that wouldn't suffice for this egotistical oaf.

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by dbboy May 20, 05:57PM

Anything and everything in an attempt to bring down this administration. Who do you think could do any better.

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by Chick May 20, 06:05PM

Anyone.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was may 22, 04:10pm by Chick.

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by seenbeen May 20, 06:53PM

dbboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Listen to the dreadful at present James O'brien
> who hasn't got a good word to say about Boris and
> slates him at every opportunity, but never comes
> up with solutions. James O'B was never as bad as
> this, but the last six months he's been hideous to
> listen to spouting his champagne socialism.
I'm not surprised at James O'Brien- he's like that all the time. I complained to LBC about a downright lie he told last year and haven't listened since.


Boris was out jogging today apparently so he must be on the mend and I imagine he is being overseen by a doctor. Is he on paternity leave I wonder- he is entitled just like anyone else?
After all, Boris and the Cabinet are being led by the science and the statistics so he doesn't have to show himself everyday. It is a good thing that we hear what the relevant Secretary of State has to say about their own areas.

The pandemic is what it is a PANdemic.....all the problems the world has have stemmed from the fact that the WHO would not cease movement of people out of China by plane and so it was spread around the world and by International Law there was nothing anyone could do about it.

Covid was reported to the WHO on 31st December when 41 patients were sick in Wuhan province- all from the wet market....and it was reported as respiratory disease that was not responding to conventional treatment.

China locked down INTERNAL travel at the end of January but pushed on, with the support of the WHO , foreign travel until the end of March.Remember there are International laws around Travel restrictions.

[en.wikipedia.org]
Makes interesting reading.

Given that there had already been a SARS outbreak in 2002 the WHO were remiss and we have ALL suffered and it is NOT the Government's fault in any way shape or form imvho.

Remember dbboy there are people who will oppose the Tories WHATEVER they do....on principle- I've heard them say as much and I've also heard a lot of people saying thank goodness Corbyn wasn't in charge....

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by KidKruger May 20, 07:23PM

Yeah but the question wasn’t “did Boris cause the pandemic?”.

The question was “is Boris fit to lead?”.
He is not.

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by malumbu May 20, 07:34PM

Sadly don't need to be a good leader to be popular.... That said I'm wondering if we have had a good leader, well at least in most of our lifetimes. That's opened the door to many other discussions (sorry)

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by Chick May 20, 07:41PM

malumbu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sadly don't need to be a good leader to be
> popular.... That said I'm wondering if we have
> had a good leader, well at least in most of our
> lifetimes. That's opened the door to many other
> discussions (sorry)

All I can say is look at Trump.

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by dbboy May 20, 08:37PM

Look, I'm not a flag waver by any means, but I tire of the constant negativity surrounding the handling of the pandemic, and before you jump on me, I totally agree that 35,000+ deaths is inexcusable, unacceptable and tragic, one death was one too many from the virus. So far that's 35,000+ funerals, that's 35,000+ too many.

Clearly two weeks before the pandemic was officially recognised, the risks should have been highlighted, all UK borders should have been closed, if you wanted to leave the UK, fine, but no return or other entry should have been allowed till the pandemic has cleared.

So yes, I agree errors have happened, but it is not all down to one person.

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by wordsworth May 20, 09:08PM

dbboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Look, I'm not a flag waver by any means, but I
> tire of the constant negativity surrounding the
> handling of the pandemic, and before you jump on
> me, I totally agree that 35,000+ deaths is
> inexcusable, unacceptable and tragic, one death
> was one too many from the virus. So far that's
> 35,000+ funerals, that's 35,000+ too many.
>
> Clearly two weeks before the pandemic was
> officially recognised, the risks should have been
> highlighted, all UK borders should have been
> closed, if you wanted to leave the UK, fine, but
> no return or other entry should have been allowed
> till the pandemic has cleared.
>
> So yes, I agree errors have happened, but it is
> not all down to one person.

Yeah but he fronts it

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by malumbu May 20, 09:31PM

The initial lockdown was sensible, allow some freedoms unlike other parts of Europe. This phase is pants. Drive to the beach, what sort of message is that? He's got to carry the can.

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by tiddles May 20, 09:50PM

What blah blah said. He’s winged it most of his life. If in doubt say something in Latin. He is out of his depth. No ideA and I think he may have just twigged he is out of his depth. No not to blame for the pandemic BUT his govts reliance has been one almighty cock up.

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by JohnL May 20, 10:02PM

He's surrounded himself with a team chosen on beliefs rather than talent which will make him look bad whatever he does.

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by KidKruger May 20, 10:27PM

Ultimately BoJo makes final decision on direction, if that's based on advice it doesn't excuse him if he cocks it up. He's the man, he chose/sacked according to who will toe his line.
The converse would be to say he's PM, but he follows advice from his team so if it goes wrong they are at fault not him - so he's squeaky clean always. Don't think so !

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by NewWave May 20, 11:33PM

KidKruger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not fit to lead, IMO wasn't fit to lead before
> Covid anyway.
> Bojo's last 'appearance' in the HoC was silly from
> what I heard on radio, Kier Starmer asking an
> obvious question about care home protections based
> on a select committee yesterday where unfortunate
> truths were aired, BoJo answering a completely
> different question that was not asked (three times
> !) and floundering badly while doing so. I can't
> say that was due to his being not fully recovered
> from Covid, I don't actually care, he was to me
> obviously playing with different articulations to
> play-down a very serious point from Labour.
>
> dbboy - I think JoB is genuinely aghast that a
> person such as BoJo can actually become leader in
> this country, that so many lies can be told around
> Brexit with no comeback, that blatant lies can be
> told during conferences to the public/media with
> no accountability and he invites callers to air
> their concerns - some whom agree with JoB, some
> who don't. Let's be frank, it's hard to find
> positives with the Govt, it's leadership, Brexit
> dealings and handling of Covid19. Isn't it ?

Agree 100% I wish he'd fess up that he's made a bloody mess of this whole thing and step down-he has the blood of 1000's on his greasy little paws.

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by JohnL May 21, 09:05AM

Brokenshire trying to explain something about track and trace but he's coming across as saying "you don't need the app for the app to work"

Kay Burley sounds hysterical as he drones on.

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by JohnL May 21, 09:12AM

"Has Grant Shapps gone rogue as briefings from the home office and foreign office say"

no answer - Burley got out of bed the wrong side today.

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by JohnL May 21, 09:15AM

Anyway the above just building my case that if Boris is an idiot he's surrounded by idiots (and I haven't mentioned Patel who has disappeared).

If you're an idiot and surround yourself with clever people you can step back and be a figurehead leader (which many say Boris did as London Mayor)

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by DulwichFox May 21, 09:30AM

Well it could of been worse.

Jeremy Corbyn could of been in charge.

Where IS Corbyn ?

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by JohnL May 21, 09:49AM

Bailing out his Bro smiling smiley

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by fishbiscuits May 21, 10:11AM

If Corbyn had been in charge, we'd be in exactly the same situation. The only difference is that my social media would be full of posts praising our PMs leadership, compassion, etc...

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by JohnL May 21, 10:40AM

fishbiscuits Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If Corbyn had been in charge, we'd be in exactly
> the same situation. The only difference is that my
> social media would be full of posts praising our
> PMs leadership, compassion, etc...

There are a few on mine who consistently praise Boris. I remember a government minister (could be Cleverly) a few years ago mentioning that a load of pro government twitter accounts would be coming online the next week - which makes me suspect there's a government bot factory out there smiling smiley

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by Spartacus May 21, 11:06AM

I love the impartial nature of this thread
In an area (and on a forum) that largely voted for labour then of course Boris won't be seen to be doing anything right.

But he is being advised by leading scientists, top virologists, experts in their fields and heads of NHS. Some are civil servants but all would be giving exactly the same words of advice regardless of who is in power, be it Tory's , Labour, Lib Dem or the Monster Raving Loony party.

Advice is listened to, cabinet, cobra and sage meetings are held where the advisers are invited to speak and yes the government in power then acts (or not) on the advice.

Kier has the advantage of hindsight , but let's be honest would he have made the same decisions if Labour won the last GE ? My feeling is possibly as he would have been getting exactly the same advice and the leader of the Tory's would be doing the same to try and bring Labour down. Politics is political after all.

The care home issue is a difficult one, the majority are private companies charging an arm and a leg to look after people who are more often than not at the end of life. They have their own procurement people with strong links to the medical and pharmaceutical sectors so why they didn't ask their suppliers for ppe is the real question that should be asked. They are also very experienced with seasonal illnesses in care homes (norovirus, seasonal flu...) where they have isolation and protection procedures. Why weren't they implemented ?

Agreed some homes are council run but again they have the same links / contacts and procedures so why were they not better prepared as an organisation ?

It may be a very black and white view but it is a question that isn't being asked, instead the media have whipped up a frenzy pointing fingers at the government over care home deaths.
The cynical side of me also thinks that there may be a collective sigh of relief by relatives who are no longer paying up to 8 grand a month to have someone looked after because the family couldn't or wouldn't. (Just my opinion here)

So my answer to the question is and based on the fact that the advisers and advice given would be the same "yes, as fit as any other PM would be in the same situation of a global pandemic that no one saw coming"

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by JohnL May 21, 11:38AM

We don't know that much about the advice given or whether it was followed as it's secret

[www.theguardian.com]

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