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The Bishop, The EDT, The Great Exhibition, the Actress or another?
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messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by Sephiroth May 21, 11:50AM

I'm willing to bet any other Prime Minister (even if it was Jeremy Hunt instead of Boris Johnson) would have been at those earlier Cobra meetings and would have taken the threat more seriously

Another Prime Minister would have taken the advice of scientists etc more seriously an, critically, they would have observed what was happening in other countries and heeded the warnings and advice from there as well

Another Prime Minister wouldn't have been advised NOT to shake hands and then go on television to advise the nation he would be shaking hands

It's a horrble situation for any government to face but the notion that noone could have done better than Johnson beggars belief, frankly

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by uncleglen May 21, 12:54PM

No-One knows- and it was oh so predictable that a Momentum-inspired bs thread would be created on here. The arrogance of you people thinking you know better than anyone else. AND we should maybe have followed the example of germany -a country that followed a nationalistic path (what else is new!) and we were disadvantaged from day 1
[www.nytimes.com]

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by Sephiroth May 21, 01:32PM

The Cat is many things. But anywhere close to being a momentum supporter? As if

What a post glen. Amazing. (Not in a good way)

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by Spartacus May 21, 01:47PM

Sephiroth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's a horrble situation for any government to
> face but the notion that noone could have done
> better than Johnson beggars belief, frankly


Although this discussion is all based on speculation and theory as no one else is actually prime minister so it's easy to point fingers at Boris. If someone else was prime minister my feeling is that they would make just as many , but possibly not the same ones

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by JohnL May 21, 02:38PM

Spartacus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sephiroth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It's a horrble situation for any government to
> > face but the notion that noone could have done
> > better than Johnson beggars belief, frankly
>
>
> Although this discussion is all based on
> speculation and theory as no one else is actually
> prime minister so it's easy to point fingers at
> Boris. If someone else was prime minister my
> feeling is that they would make just as many , but
> possibly not the same ones


But he was very divisive on his way to power - but then Theresa May also ended up being divisive by being indecisive. DO we have any leaders who could being consensus?.

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by Blah Blah May 21, 04:49PM

Being offered advice by science and choosing whether to take it, are two different things. Government is engaged in balancing public health vs economy and given that different political parties have different views on what matters most within an economy, it is only logical to argue that a different party or different leadership for that matter, may have had a different approach. Whether or not that would have led to different outcomes is unknowable.

Boris himself said in an interview that he did not take the virus seriously enough in the beginning. HE said that. He also said that getting in and almost dying is what made him realise he was wrong. That is pretty clear for everyone to comprehend. We have the highest death toll in Europe for a reason. We need to understand why.

My view is this. We have been impacted in exactly the same ways as every country that failed to respond fast enough in the beginning. We are seeing the same trajectories as everywhere else, with the same spread of age and demographic impact. There is only one differential. The speed and extent of response between countries. Lives absolutely could have been saved with an earlier response and better preparation. At the same time, lives absolutely were saved by the speed with which the NHS was geared up. But that all should have happened earlier. Lack of national stocks of PPE (something that should be in place at all times) absolutely lies at this government's door. They directed funding away from maintaining those supplies into no deal Brexit preparations. There is no getting away from that.

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by diable rouge May 21, 09:31PM

Sephiroth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Cat is many things. But anywhere close to
> being a momentum supporter? As if
>
> What a post glen. Amazing. (Not in a good way)

Unc is so wrapped up in his racist/xenophobic culture war that any post he perceives as being negative to 'his side' must automatically be on the 'other side'. Subjectivity has long since left the building.
In 20 years time he'll be discovered ranting away in some dark, dingy corner of the web, like a 21st Century version of a holed-up Viet Cong hiding in the jungle still fighting the Americans...

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by Sephiroth May 21, 09:42PM

Deleted my message because I was mean about someone’s age



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was may 21, 09:42pm by Sephiroth.

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by TheCat May 21, 10:25PM

diable rouge Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sephiroth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The Cat is many things. But anywhere close to
> > being a momentum supporter? As if
> >
> > What a post glen. Amazing. (Not in a good way)
>
> Unc is so wrapped up in his racist/xenophobic
> culture war that any post he perceives as being
> negative to 'his side' must automatically be on
> the 'other side'. Subjectivity has long since left
> the building.
> In 20 years time he'll be discovered ranting away
> in some dark, dingy corner of the web, like a 21st
> Century version of a holed-up Viet Cong hiding in
> the jungle still fighting the Americans...


It's funny you know. I took a bit of care to make sure the OP was worded as neutrally as possible. And also make clear that I was specifically talking about his health, not anything else.

But people on both 'sides' read something not in 100percent agreement with their own view...and conclude it must be from the 'other' side.....

Seph....who knew I was a closet momentum activist?smiling smiley...not even me apparently....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was may 21, 10:29pm by TheCat.

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by NewWave May 21, 10:47PM

Blah Blah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Being offered advice by science and choosing
> whether to take it, are two different things.
> Government is engaged in balancing public health
> vs economy and given that different political
> parties have different views on what matters most
> within an economy, it is only logical to argue
> that a different party or different leadership for
> that matter, may have had a different approach.
> Whether or not that would have led to different
> outcomes is unknowable.
>
> Boris himself said in an interview that he did not
> take the virus seriously enough in the beginning.
> HE said that. He also said that getting in and
> almost dying is what made him realise he was
> wrong. That is pretty clear for everyone to
> comprehend. We have the highest death toll in
> Europe for a reason. We need to understand why.
>
> My view is this. We have been impacted in exactly
> the same ways as every country that failed to
> respond fast enough in the beginning. We are
> seeing the same trajectories as everywhere else,
> with the same spread of age and demographic
> impact. There is only one differential. The speed
> and extent of response between countries. Lives
> absolutely could have been saved with an earlier
> response and better preparation. At the same time,
> lives absolutely were saved by the speed with
> which the NHS was geared up. But that all should
> have happened earlier. Lack of national stocks of
> PPE (something that should be in place at all
> times) absolutely lies at this government's door.
> They directed funding away from maintaining those
> supplies into no deal Brexit preparations. There
> is no getting away from that.

Spot on!

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by uncleglen May 22, 12:31AM

How the bloody hell can you title something 'Is Boris Fit To Lead' on the East Dulwich Forum and not expect lefty anti-government comments- for heaven's sake ED is the heart of champagne socialist London or hadn't you noticed....it was deliberate- and if it wasn't ...no- it was deliberate.
Anyway as someone pointed out -Boris was out jogging (in this heat he should get a medal)....and I'm sure he is on Doctor's orders

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by Sephiroth May 22, 06:33AM

I’m not sure me saying “if Jeremy Hunt won the tory leadership contest instead of Johnson, he would have handled the situation much better”, is evidence of anything leftie Glen

But you do you

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by Blah Blah May 22, 07:54AM

As usual, Uncle doesn't address a single point being made but goes on another predictable 'everyone is a lefty' rant.

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by Sephiroth May 22, 08:15AM

If only that was all he ever did

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by diable rouge May 22, 09:48AM

Cooeeeee!...

https://www.traveller.com.au/content/dam/images/h/1/m/b/t/a/image.related.articleLeadwide.520x294.h1m46u.png/1583730111739.jpg

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by malumbu May 22, 10:06AM

TheCat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> diable rouge Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Sephiroth Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > The Cat is many things. But anywhere close
> to
> > > being a momentum supporter? As if
> > >
> > > What a post glen. Amazing. (Not in a good
> way)
> >
> > Unc is so wrapped up in his racist/xenophobic
> > culture war that any post he perceives as being
> > negative to 'his side' must automatically be on
> > the 'other side'. Subjectivity has long since
> left
> > the building.
> > In 20 years time he'll be discovered ranting
> away
> > in some dark, dingy corner of the web, like a
> 21st
> > Century version of a holed-up Viet Cong hiding
> in
> > the jungle still fighting the Americans...
>
> > It's funny you know. I took a bit of care to make
> sure the OP was worded as neutrally as possible.
> And also make clear that I was specifically
> talking about his health, not anything else.
>
> But people on both 'sides' read something not in
> 100percent agreement with their own view...and
> conclude it must be from the 'other' side.....
>
> Seph....who knew I was a closet momentum
> activist?smiling smiley...not even me apparently....

It's the term 'fit', we use 'fit' for sports people. Is he or she fit enough to play this weekend. Otherwise fit will be are they capable of the job - it the England manager fit to control the national team? Otherwise we'd say are they well enough to come back to work. Ironically all the issues you have raised with BoJo's fitness fit (another use) with many of our views that he is not capable. Come on you did tease us. As for his physical fitness it was crazy that he continued when he was so ill. Crazy. The Queen failed in her duty of care to the head of the country, and the country as a whole.

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by rahrahrah May 22, 10:21AM

He is demonstrably untrustworthy. At a time of national emergency, you need people to have trust and confidence in the government and the advice it is giving, if they are going to effectively manage the crisis. I'm not sure what you mean by 'fit', but he's not the person I want in charge right now. Still, at least we don't have Trump I guess.

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by JohnL May 22, 02:32PM

Didn't Charles take over a lot of the Queens duties recently - now if he sacked Boris that would be controversial.

I think it already happened in House of Cards however smiling smiley

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by edcam May 22, 04:26PM

He's famously workshy. He wanted the job but none of the hassle and boy did he inherit hassle. I didn't want Corbyn as PM but it's hard to imagine anyone doing a worse job than Johnson and his cabal of incompetents.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was may 22, 07:09pm by edcam.

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by TheCat May 22, 04:55PM

Look...now that this thread has moved on from his health (was that always my intention?big grin....yes, mistakes have been made. But not every move they make is disastrous/incompetent/malicious.

I think that whoever was in Gov at this moment would cop a kicking. For Tory haters, it's evidence of their lack of compassion. If labour was in power, labour haters would be kicking them for being economically incompetent.

So really....it's just politics as usual....

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by diable rouge May 22, 05:10PM

For me it's the lack of recognition from the Gov that they've made mistakes, spinning yesterday's U-turn on the NHS surcharge as a sign of Johnson's 'strength', being typical.
This from former diplomat Peter Ricketts...

The Government would win so much respect if they admitted, just sometimes, that they had made a mistake and were correcting it. That would be a sign of strength not weakness.

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by Peckhampam May 22, 05:12PM

Hear, hear diable rouges post. It is the arrogance and lying I can't stand. And why does every new initiative have to be world beating

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by KidKruger May 22, 05:21PM

world beating ?!
current cabinet couldn't beat an egg.

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by edcam May 22, 06:20PM

Cummings got rid of all the credible ones. I would never vote Tory but I can think of several who would have been much more useful right now than this lot.

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by TheCat May 22, 07:42PM

diable rouge Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For me it's the lack of recognition from the Gov
> that they've made mistakes, spinning yesterday's
> U-turn on the NHS surcharge as a sign of Johnson's
> 'strength', being typical.
> This from former diplomat Peter Ricketts...
>
> The Government would win so much respect if they
> admitted, just sometimes, that they had made a
> mistake and were correcting it. That would be a
> sign of strength not weakness.


100percent agreed. Good article in the spectator last week which outlined the three big mistake that have been made. And suggested it they were just admitted, rather than obfuscated, it would go a long way to buying cred.

Can't understand why they can't admit missteps. Everyone knows it's difficult...but don't piss on us and tell us it's raining.....

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by TheCat May 23, 07:47AM

Okay...so Cummins is now breaking his own rules.....time to change....

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by TheCat May 23, 09:19AM

diable rouge Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For me it's the lack of recognition from the Gov
> that they've made mistakes, spinning yesterday's
> U-turn on the NHS surcharge as a sign of Johnson's
> 'strength', being typical.
> This from former diplomat Peter Ricketts...
>
> The Government would win so much respect if they
> admitted, just sometimes, that they had made a
> mistake and were correcting it. That would be a
> sign of strength not weakness.

If corbyn had removed the surcharge it would be evidence of awesome he is.

Now that Boris has...it's a U-turn, or he's been 'forced" into it.....

Government has done something that the left wants, and the left still find a way to have a go...

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by dbboy May 23, 10:44AM

Cummings



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was may 23, 11:03am by dbboy.

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by pk May 23, 11:02AM

TheCat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> diable rouge Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> If corbyn had removed the surcharge it would be
> evidence of awesome he is.
>
> Now that Boris has...it's a U-turn, or he's been
> 'forced" into it.....
>
> Government has done something that the left wants,
> and the left still find a way to have a go...


You don’t think that saying one thing one day and the opposite the next is a U
Turn?

messageRe: Is Boris fit to lead?
Posted by diable rouge May 23, 11:12AM

Cat does a U-turn about the U-turn...smiling smiley

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