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messageRe: Compulsory Face coverings on Public Transport.
Posted by TE44 June 16, 11:51PM

Blah Blah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TE44, we have an excess death count, compared to
> the year on year average, that can be explained in
> no other way than being the result of this
> pandemic. In the winter, if a second wave hits, we
> will see another excess death count, compared to
> the figures seasonal flu delivers. We have a moral
> duty to protect life and the only way that can be
> effectively done during a pandemic is in the way
> that governments around the world have responded.
>
>
> The cost to the economy of doing nothing is bigger
> longer term. Why? because business is equally hit
> hard when millions of people are too sick to work
> at any given time, and health resources, unable to
> cope with the pandemic, can't treat anyone else
> either. Why do you think Spanish Flu (the last
> unfettered global pandemic) killed an estimated 40
> million plus? Why do you think that had a
> depressive economic impact? Why do you think
> Manchester, who did employ what we would now
> recognise as social distancing and lock down
> measures, had less than other cities that did not
> in 1918?
>
> And by other doctors/ scientists who have
> different ideas and experiences, please don't say
> you mean the discredited voices behind hogwash
> like 'Plandemic'. Those people are deliberately
> peddling claims they know are not true, and are a
> disgrace to science.


Sorry on phone and miss posts. The disgrace to science should absolutely be under question. We are being put at risk by research which is danferous and revolves around money. You mention Hudy Mitovic a woman who worked for years in labs including level4 safety. She worked on vaccines and was very much part of the scientific community. If she is peddling lies why is'nt she given a chance to debate her claims on a public platform. Why is she being banned and vilified. Why can't the public be given the chance to decide for themselves. Oh of course we're not able to hear different truths, opinions, experiences. Let a discussion be allowed, i actually believe now people in science cannot do what Judy Mikovit has done and admit to believing she was doing the right think whilst she worked with HIV and Ebola only to realise she was wrong and how crooked the industry is.

messageRe: Compulsory Face coverings on Public Transport.
Posted by Blah Blah June 17, 12:01AM

I knew it. That woman spiked her own samples to falsify clinical results. If you can not see why that would be extremely dangerous in clinical research that may go on to be used on millions of patients, there is no helping you. She was no more than a lab technician and was fired and discredited for it and rightly so. Her claims in Plandemic are hogwash and she absolutely knows this. This pretty accurately sums it up.

[www.medpagetoday.com]

She is playing on people like you who have inadequate understanding of biological science to peddle her own conspiracy theories. Please don't insult my intelligence with any more of her tripe.

And here is a sobering example for you.

[www.washingtonpost.com]

Brazil ignored everything and did little and is now in a complete mess. That is what would have happened across the world had every country ignored the advice of epidemiology.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit was june 17, 12:12am by Blah Blah.

messageRe: Compulsory Face coverings on Public Transport.
Posted by TE44 June 17, 12:40AM

[londonreal.tv]

Judy Mikovit, "responding to criticism surrounding my viral documentary the plandemic"
On freedom platform London Real. It is not about following one way, I find it insulting information is deemed to dangerous for the public to hear, especially with the conflicting information that has been given out. This woman is one of many who have spoken out and been silenced. She has first hand information along with others who have and are working against what they have found to be situations and research that are taking us down a very dangerous path. There is a recognition of how whilst working in this industry that it is not the majority of scientists under question, they're intention and belief
is to do what is best. I don't like 2 sides seperately, why can't we hear them together. Let us make our own judgement on what we hear. Health services weren't able to cope with the vulnerable people needing treatment. All the studies done on quarantine, solitary confinement etc over the years, the effect of coming out of lockdown to a different world, where choices can't even be made sense of. A disgrace.media a disgrace and a right to hear/have different views being disncouraged long before the pandemic. I am more worried about there dangerous research in labs where pathogens are mutated and made more viralent, kknowing the potential for mistakes to be made. What a disgrace. Gain of function.

Edited to say wharever your title in health it is obvious poverty and health are linked. We have o idea of the loss of life that will come from the consequences of our experts advice. And so they continue taking our choices and freedoms away. Scared to death, building a safe world. where they will lead us. Except when it doesnt pan out how they say, then its diwn to us for not doing this or doing that. When we all know the rules have been broken all along, everyone justifying there own behaviou and of course pointing the finger at the same time. Good night.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit was june 17, 01:02am by TE44.

messageRe: Compulsory Face coverings on Public Transport.
Posted by Blah Blah June 17, 12:55AM

Now you are posting links to websites that do nothing but peddle conspiracy theories! And you are going to still pretend you don't seek out this stuff? Who next? Alex Jones?

Of course Level 4 labs work on pathogens, there would be no vaccines if they didn't. But these are also the highest security level labs because of those biohazards. Again her response plays on your ignorance of how pathogenic science works, because she wants you to think that the Chinese or some governmental power created Covid. Scientists far more qualified and specialised than her can tell from the genome sequence where a virus originates and if it has been synthetically altered in any way.

I have covered all of this before so I am not going through it again.

messageRe: Compulsory Face coverings on Public Transport.
Posted by lameduck June 17, 08:59AM

I know
this is going off the thread somewhat, They say the warm weather drys virus out
so it dies on surfaces, in the sun. So possibly will slow transmission, for example
postman touching your gate, and your letter etc. Whats worrying me, in the summer this will die back
just like seasonal flu, And peoples attitudes, especially the young, no masks, or face coverings, gay abandon, riots.
high street open, we are all back to normal
It will just bounce back when weather changes, We may be back in lockdown come October

messageRe: Compulsory Face coverings on Public Transport.
Posted by TE44 June 17, 09:23AM

Blah blah Assumw what you wish. Its so easy to sum people up. Its a typical way of shutting people up. Yes we have been over it before and have different opinions. This woman has made this video on a atform where she is free to speak uncensored and unedited. In response to accusations of conspiracies. Imagine people of science agreeing to unedited interviews. Hey theres an idea.or maybe scientist with different opinions are frightened the unedited vesrsion of events will be to dangerous to hear. Might even put them in a situation of saying they don't understand. Remember the last pandemic. The vaccine. Cospiraloons on the streets because there children suddenly diagnosed with narcolepst , bloody conspiraloons. Oh no wait a minute. We do not need yo be protected from information regardless off how different it is from our own view. Hopefully we will see people coming together. New platforms emerging that breaks down a system of being fed a pile of bs which encourages people to divide. Imagine that a conspiracy to be heard and to try and break down the divide, an open platform. I can't believe how easy it would be to have a conservation and debunk scientist/doctors who do not believe the narrative and will put there experiences of Covid over. Instead they are silenced. Its not one doctor. Its not about who knowß the most.

messageRe: Compulsory Face coverings on Public Transport.
Posted by TE44 June 17, 09:36AM

Blah blah Assumw what you wish. Its so easy to sum people up. Its a typical way of shutting people up. Yes we have been over it before and have different opinions. This woman has made this video on a atform where she is free to speak uncensored and unedited. In response to accusations of conspiracies. Imagine people of science agreeing to unedited interviews. Hey theres an idea.or maybe scientist with different opinions are frightened the unedited vesrsion of events will be to dangerous to hear. Might even put them in a situation of saying they don't understand. Remember the last pandemic. The vaccine. Cospiraloons on the streets because there children suddenly diagnosed with narcolepst , bloody conspiraloons. Oh no wait a minute. We do not need yo be protected from information regardless off how different it is from our own view. Hopefully we will see people coming together. New platforms emerging that breaks down a system of being fed a pile of bs which encourages people to divide. Imagine that a conspiracy to be heard and to try and break down the divide, an open platform. I can't believe how easy it would be to have a conservation and debunk scientist/doctors who do not believe the narrative and will put there experiences of Covid over. Instead they are silenced. Its not one doctor. Its not about who knows the most. All this knowledge now about face masks .regardless that its not a new phenomena and 7 months later its decided its what should be done. Im sure the science in that is to difficult for us to understand. Opening libraries, books crossing hands, whatever next cash will be safe again or maybe not. I haven't met anyone who hasn't been thrown into a srate of confusioN THROUGH THIS. Iexpect not for the scientificly minded who are desperately trying to justify A system yhat hasn't had a clue.

messageRe: Compulsory Face coverings on Public Transport.
Posted by seenbeen June 17, 09:50AM

There is only one conspiracy theory worth considering imo and that is what the hell was going on in China, specifically Wuhan, last December?
[www.bbc.co.uk]

messageRe: Compulsory Face coverings on Public Transport.
Posted by DulwichFox June 17, 10:04AM

What is most likely..

(1) The virus started on a Market Stall in a back street in Wuhan.

(2) It was developed in a Wuhan Laboratory

London: The Wuhan Institute of Virology received a shipment of deadly viruses from Canada's Microbiology Lab
months before the outbreak of Covid-19, newly-released documents confirm.

[www.timesnownews.com]

Must of been the Market stall.

messageRe: Compulsory Face coverings on Public Transport.
Posted by Blah Blah June 17, 10:38AM

TE44 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Blah blah Assumw what you wish......... Its not about who
> knowß the most.

And imagine a world where people don't get taken in by cranks because they lack any expert knowledge of their own! No-one ever questions the surgeon about to save their life, but expert geneticists and virologists can be questioned because a discredited lab technician who doctored the samples she was working on aligns herself with conspiracy theories. You buy into this stuff because you want to and because you lack the common sense to wonder why millions of research centers and qualified professionals around the world don't share the conclusions of this one discredited worker. Of course she has an axe to grind. She got caught cheating science. And once a cheat, always a cheat.

messageRe: Compulsory Face coverings on Public Transport.
Posted by Blah Blah June 17, 10:47AM

DulwichFox Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
London: The Wuhan Institute of Virology
> received a shipment of deadly viruses from
> Canada's Microbiology Lab
> months before the outbreak of Covid-19,
> newly-released documents confirm.
>

Wuhan has been working on bats virals for a long time, as a specialist area, involving an international team of scientists. Bats are the most virulent species on the planet and labs all over the world work on that. You might want to sensationalise one shipment but there are thousands of these shipments moving between labs all around the world. Level 4 labs are incredibly secure. They have to be. These headlines are indicative of finding something to fit a narrative. In truth, the shipment of virals between labs is commonplace. In addition, the virals created in labs are pseudovirals. In other words, they have had the ability to activate removed. This is also something I have explained before on this forum.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was june 17, 10:49am by Blah Blah.

messageRe: Compulsory Face coverings on Public Transport.
Posted by Spartacus June 17, 12:23PM

Sadly, Beijing that had a period of 57 days without new cases is seeing a new spike.

[www.bbc.co.uk]

Doesn't this tell you why wearing masks in public on transport and possibly the 14 day quarantine period is required to help the UK keep numbers low going forward?

If Beijing is seeing new cases after nearly 2 months of being Covid free then it occurs to me that this is a virus that we currently have limited information on how it will reoccur and no control over how it behaves.

messageRe: Compulsory Face coverings on Public Transport.
Posted by TE44 June 17, 12:48PM

[www.nationalreview.com]

Heres a link about "gain of function research". I don't believe anyone reads one article and agrees with all views. Blah bkah you seem to be suggesting people cannot agree and disagree with people. This research was stopped due to the fact it was not safe. would suggest people educate themselves especially on safety issues surrounding thes labs. I do not have the time to put links and Blah Blah mentions thus woman was a discredited lab technician, she was arrested , held for 5days no charges were brought. I would love to hear a debate and accusations put to her, where we are given a chance to hear something more than the usual continuation of discrediting.I can't help feel these people that believe others must be silenced or discredited are so frightened there own reality and importance of there knowledge is under question its impossible to even consider there may be something of interest to be heard. What a shame, to close off everything because theres only a choice of believe everything or nothing.
No one questions the surgeon about to save your lif because you dying. Although if a chance arises after surgery many people do. Why not, that is how we understand.If its as simple as ond doctor discrediting colleagues, woyldn' it be easier to discredit her by having a public debate. Instead of people attatching her to a story that is spread by people who are worried they are questioned on there expertise. What a sorry state of affairs.

messageRe: Compulsory Face coverings on Public Transport.
Posted by SpringTime June 17, 03:04PM

Now that this simple mask rule has finally been put in place I've kept an eye on adherence

Where I'm sitting today so far I have seen thousands (no joke - actually thousands) of people on passing buses with no masks on. Either they're getting on buses without masks or they're taking them off after embarking.

This is dumb. Makes me wonder about hand sanitizer as well. Please remind those that you know who use public transport to mask-up for the time being. Cheers.

messageRe: Compulsory Face coverings on Public Transport.
Posted by ianr June 17, 03:09PM

Pugwash wrote on 16 June:
-------------------------------
> I have no problems in wearing
> a mask but as a person who lip
> reads as I have only partial
> hearing, it would be helpful
> if other mask wearers take in to
> consideration that I may ask them
> to repeat anything that is said to
> me. I have head the experience of
> people talking to me and I have
> asked them to repeat for them
> to get very aggressive .

The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Wearing of Face Coverings on Public Transport) (England) Regulations 2020, SI 2020/592, [www.legislation.gov.uk], say:
"3.—(1) No person may, without reasonable excuse, use a public transport service without wearing a face covering.
...
4. For the purposes of regulation 3(1), the circumstances in which a person ('P') has a reasonable excuse include those where—
...
(b) P is travelling with, or providing assistance to, another person ('B') and B relies on lip reading to communicate with P; ..."
Whether it's manageable, practicable, safe, sensible. considerate of others, etc in any situation is another matter of course, but at least you're potentially, after explanation, saved the worry of its being deemed a breach of the regulation.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit was june 17, 03:15pm by ianr.

messageRe: Compulsory Face coverings on Public Transport.
Posted by TE44 June 17, 06:42PM

[mbio.asm.org]

Here is a link to "gain of function research". If you are interested about what goes on in labs I would suggest reading a number of diffeeent descriptions. I believe the US funded this research in Wuhan labs. I'll post a link but have to edit to add it.
[conservativedailypost.com]
Does anyone know if this has been confirmed. Although its no longer banned this research, I believe it is an accident waiting to happen if it hasn't aleeady.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was june 17, 06:46pm by TE44.

messageRe: Compulsory Face coverings on Public Transport.
Posted by Blah Blah June 17, 09:08PM

TE44. You don't understand the science. That is fine. But I do.

Let me put it to you this way.

There are people who believe the Earth is flat. They really do believe that and spend a lot of time trying to bend the laws of physics to prove it. They reject all space photography, even though many nations (some of them with strong distrust of each other) have taken space photography for decades. This is the rabbit hole you are trying to argue with me. A minority of people can believe something that absolutely is true, is not. Should we be giving credence to flat earthers and their theories? Absolutely not. Should we be listening to the opinion of one discredited former lab technician over the hundreds of thousands of international experts who say something that is proven through repeated scientific analysis? Absolutely not.

A key claim of Mikovits is that wearing a mask activates the virus. This is just completely untrue. She doesn't get away with it because hundreds of thousands of virologists can explain precisely why it is untrue. That leaves only two conclusions. That she is deliberately telling lies, or that she has no understanding of virology. Which do you think it is?

And just to emphasize the point further. There are trained biologists who think evolution is a lie. They are strong advocates of creationism. Like Mikovits, they ignore the overwhelming evidence for, and amplify one or two holes that enable them to bend the science. The point is that people who study science are not immune to being sucked into stronger beliefs in other things that conflict with the science, to the point they bend the science to fit their narrative. Mikovits fits into that category. It is dangerous to give these people any credence.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was june 17, 09:10pm by Blah Blah.

messageRe: Compulsory Face coverings on Public Transport.
Posted by Blah Blah June 17, 09:27PM

To answer your question of gain of function research. Yes it is highly dangerous. Yes some countries have banned it as a matter of course. Yes there are ethical debates to be had, just as with many areas of molecular biology. The point is, why is it an area of research? What is the intent and what might be the potential gain?

This link takes a balanced view of the debate as it stands.

[mbio.asm.org]

The history of scientific development has always involved elements of risk. What matters is the safety measures put in place to mitigate that risk. We no longer fill our houses (or bodies if we can help it) with poisonous toxins, like the Victorians did, because we place thorough research and safety before use. Sometimes though, there is a compromise between gain and risk.

Zoonotic viruses already have the ability to 'shift' in a major way, without the help of a lab. And the more the population grows on the planet, encroaching into areas shared with wildlife, the more likely we are to see future major zoonotic mutations.

The idea behind GOF research, is to be able to predetermine shift, and develop vaccines, before it happens, thus potentially mitigating future serious pandemics. It is not beyond the realms of science either, to one day have sequenced every zoonotic virus that exists, and have an array or ready made vaccine recipes to respond with speed to any major pandemic. You only have to look at the chaos, both economic and otherwise, this pandemic has caused, to see why science would want to find a faster way to respond to new pathogens.

messageRe: Compulsory Face coverings on Public Transport.
Posted by TE44 June 17, 11:10PM

[www.nature.com]

Here is another more up to date link on the rules around this research being revisited. and a calling for more transparency around these experiments from US disease researchers while others argued greater transparency could make it harder to approve necessary research. very interesting. There is enough natural mutations, can't help feel this type of research is interfering with nature. There is already mistrust around vaccines and the inabilitity to recognise damage done by vaccines regardless of governments vaccine damage schemes.

[www.nature.com]

here is also a link regarding the flumist mutation found in 2017, I am not sure if this was found in the nasal spray but I do know there was a mutation found but If anyone knows that would be interesting. Influenza subtype H3N2 is one of several subtypes shown to mutate when grown in chicken eggs. I'm not going to go on but I find using animals in this way where mutations are only found after being introduced into the human system, very frightening. when I first read about this it was hailed as a discovery. If this is the nasal flu vaccine. how it would help invaccine research. I would ne more interested in the effect it may have had on my child if I had allowed this to be done. Sorry I know Ive went on.

messageRe: Compulsory Face coverings on Public Transport.
Posted by Blah Blah June 17, 11:36PM

Much of the anti-vac arguments are unfounded too. Vaccines have to go through rigorous clinical trials before they make it into widespread use. The fastest any working vaccine, deemed safe enough to use, has been developed, is five years.

Influenza A mutates easily. This is why we develop a new vaccine every season, with varying degrees of success. There is little we can do to prevent viruses mutating. Part of life I'm afraid.

messageRe: Compulsory Face coverings on Public Transport.
Posted by NewWave June 18, 12:23AM

lameduck Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know
> this is going off the thread somewhat, They say
> the warm weather drys virus out
> so it dies on surfaces, in the sun. So possibly
> will slow transmission, for example
> postman touching your gate, and your letter etc.
> Whats worrying me, in the summer this will die
> back
> just like seasonal flu, And peoples attitudes,
> especially the young, no masks, or face coverings,
> gay abandon, riots.
> high street open, we are all back to normal
> It will just bounce back when weather changes, We
> may be back in lockdown come October


Totally agree-I work in a west end shop and theres an almost holiday atmosphere to the shoppers we have had through the door-ignoring social distancing (despite clear signage in place everywhere) most of them not wearing masks people milling in groups-my manager has advised shop floor staff to wear masks because the customers despite our best efforts seem oblivious to the fact the reason they are not in work and free to wander the shops is due to a global pandemic

messageRe: Compulsory Face coverings on Public Transport.
Posted by TE44 June 18, 01:09AM

Blah blah I understand viruses mutate my probkem is our interference with the mutation. Im sure you will be aware of Dr Ralph Baric who was working with gain of function research and sars virus. I would not say whatdeveloped from that work was a natural mutation. His worry was this type of rresearch would be suspended. Why interfere and mutate a virus when they cannot yet understand viruses natural mutation. It seems madness and dangerous to be doing this work with the reasons being to help find a virus when we are faced with a zoonotic mutation. Thus was 2015. So with this work did they find a vaccine. How far can they go with this research.

[www.nature.com]

Edited to say the link above of the mutation of the fluvirus subtype H3N3 clearly says it was caused by the growing in a chicken egg, i would not ckass that as a natural mutation either.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was june 18, 01:20am by TE44.

messageRe: Compulsory Face coverings on Public Transport.
Posted by Blah Blah June 18, 02:37AM

It is a natural mutation because it is organic. The same mutation could easily occur in the hen producing the egg. Synthetic mutations involve directly altering the protein spikes and/or DNA in a lab. There's a clear difference there.

On mutations, there is actually a lot that IS understood. And it is understood because of research like this that can be carried out. When presented with a novel virus, it is one thing to identify the zoonotic host carrier. Another to identify the intermediate host and the steps of mutation.

We have to find a answer to SARS and there is no other way to do that than to carry out the kind of research you are so worried about.

messageRe: Compulsory Face coverings on Public Transport.
Posted by TE44 June 18, 08:13AM

Blah blah I think we have different ideas of natural. It is organic yes but it is man made. I believe it is to big a risk this kind of research. I also feel humans cannot be trusted when in comes to trying to understand nature. We tend to look at nature like it must be controlled. I am not against science in fact I love science and am grateful for advancements made but we as humans are our own worse enemies. We do not have a right to interfere and justify any actions for what we believe to be best. If it was the case it was for the good of mankind the industry would have to change. There is a virus going around that worries me more than the corona, it is a human condition. Denial is part of it. And a right to behave like we are the only living beings on this planet. I wish you a good day, im having a break for a few days as it effects me physically using my phone. It is to much of an effort for me.

messageRe: Compulsory Face coverings on Public Transport.
Posted by Lynne June 18, 09:01AM

I read JohnL's comment as he tried wearing a banana as covering which bemused me for a while

On the return trip to Peckham yesterday I did a rough head count and about 50% weren't wearing masks on the outward journey and about 25%on the return (including an off shift driver). Most of the maskless people were on their phones

messageRe: Compulsory Face coverings on Public Transport.
Posted by Blah Blah June 18, 04:09PM

TE44. The research that you think is a big risk is the method by which we create the annual flu vaccine. Hens eggs are used to create that. Are you suggesting we stop doing that as well? By your logic, we should never try and create any treatments that might save or better lives. How do you feel about stem cell treatments for example? You can not have it both ways.

messageRe: Compulsory Face coverings on Public Transport.
Posted by Alec1 June 24, 01:57PM

RE. original post, face coverings on public transport....

From TFL

"Although the wearing of face coverings is mandatory there is a long list of exemptions. Drivers can't tell who is exempt (e.g. passengers with breathing difficulties) and who isn't. They can politely remind passengers that if they can wear a face covering, they should do so; and they can make announcements to remind passengers to cover their faces.However, drivers have no authority to enforce the wearing of face coverings; that power lies with the police (who can issue fines)".

messageRe: Compulsory Face coverings on Public Transport.
Posted by NewWave June 26, 09:26PM

Alec1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RE. original post, face coverings on public
> transport....
>
> From TFL
>
> "Although the wearing of face coverings is
> mandatory there is a long list of exemptions.
> Drivers can't tell who is exempt (e.g. passengers
> with breathing difficulties) and who isn't. They
> can politely remind passengers that if they can
> wear a face covering, they should do so; and they
> can make announcements to remind passengers to
> cover their faces.However, drivers have no
> authority to enforce the wearing of face
> coverings; that power lies with the police (who
> can issue fines)".

They need to issue badges like the 'please offer me a seat ' ones to be honest I'm suprised they didn't have them ready for the 15th june-they knew facecovings on public transport were sure to become mandatory but there seems to have been little joined up thinking

messageRe: Compulsory Face coverings on Public Transport.
Posted by IlonaM June 27, 07:06AM

NewWave Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Alec1 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > RE. original post, face coverings on public
> > transport....
> >
> > From TFL
> >
> > "Although the wearing of face coverings is
> > mandatory there is a long list of exemptions.
> > Drivers can't tell who is exempt (e.g.
> passengers
> > with breathing difficulties) and who isn't.
> They
> > can politely remind passengers that if they can
> > wear a face covering, they should do so; and
> they
> > can make announcements to remind passengers to
> > cover their faces.However, drivers have no
> > authority to enforce the wearing of face
> > coverings; that power lies with the police (who
> > can issue fines)".
>
> They need to issue badges like the 'please offer
> me a seat ' ones to be honest I'm suprised they
> didn't have them ready for the 15th june-they knew
> facecovings on public transport were sure to
> become mandatory but there seems to have been
> little joined up thinking


THe INdependent has this article about a new TFL card for those with medical reasons not to wear a facemask: [www.independent.co.uk]

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