Racially motivated internet posts by PJ Carpet Cleaning

[binkylilyput]

Sorry if this is the incorrect section (admin please move if it is) but I thought it really important to get the word out about this individual.

If any of you are members of the East Dulwich Forum, East Dulwich Mums or Nunhead Rocks Facebook pages you will see posts relating to racial abuse and threats from the man behind P J Carpet Cleaning. The person on the receiving end took screenshots of his messages so there is clear proof. Silly billy used his business account to post these nasty messages...? and his posts have also been shared on his business FB page!

I could save the pictures and post on here but I'm not sure that would be allowed (the original posters have given permission to post far a wide though).

P J Carpet Cleaning have a recommendation on this forum, there may be more but I've only done a quick search.

I think this racial abuse should be exposed and named so I have decided to begin this thread. I hope people will take the time to look for themselves and agree that this individual should have his messages shared or at least named.

[ED Bird]

I was disgusted by the screenshots I read alone via EDM {East Dulwich Mums FB page} alone, but according to witnesses, it was even worse than what I'd read; threatening violence against the woman! The woman has done nothing to warrant this type of abuse.

He's a big, bald, knuckle-dragging brute who has not only done this under his own business account, but with one that can be traced to all of his personal details ie. work address/home address. This guy thinks he's untouchable - he's clearly out of touch with reality.

These types of threats need to be reported. He's unstable & should not be approached, let alone invited into your homes.

[Sally Eva]

Yes, to this -- stuff said and done on the internet is as criminal as stuff written down or shouted. Complain to the police. This is hate crime.

[Administrator]

Feel free to link to the Facebook pages so people can see the posts in question

[binkylilyput]

Thank you Admin for reinstating this post. I believe it to be very important in the interests of proactively challenging racism and racial abuse, including online.

I have screenshots if forum users think it appropriate to post as I?m aware that folk may not be members of the FB groups mentioned.

[Sue]

I'd say it was completely appropriate to post the screenshots and/or links on here.

If I was looking for a carpet cleaner, I would want to know about this so I could avoid him.

Thanks for posting.

[binkylilyput]

I am needing to attach them in separate posts as too big and I don?t have the know how but I hope folk can decipher them!

[binkylilyput]

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[sweetgirl]

Omg!

How disrespectful

[theron]

Ew, disgusting behaviour!

[binkylilyput]

I'm glad you agree. I am interested to hear forum user views and hope that the 928 users who have viewed this post are equally as angered by this local business man's racial abuse.

The post was not allowed in the main section unfortunately.

If we stand by and do nothing, we are complicit and racism continues no?

[TheCat]

Shall we destroy the businesses of the 924 people who havent posted on here, as they are complicit?

[binkylilyput]

Do you think that is what my point is?

I'd say there are far bigger issues at stake here and your comment just side tracks that

TheCat Wrote:

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> Shall we destroy the businesses of the 924 people

> who havent posted on here, as they are complicit?

[TheCat]

There are indeed very big issues at play, and I don't believe your posts (while well-intentioned) are particularly useful in addressing them.

The person in question (PJ Carpet Cleaning) is unquestionably xenophobic, unquestionably deeply unpleasant (particularly when starting to get threatening), and quite possibly racist.

However...2 points....

Firstly, The woman who made the original post had clearly decided he was talking about 'black' people as soon as he made his original post about 'deportation of all', (despite no evidence that he was at that point). While his comments were obviously xenophobic (i.e. if you're not born in dulwich, then you should be deported), I dont see how they constitute 'racial abuse' (plenty of black people have been born in dulwich, no?). IM not excusing xenophobia, or prejudice, and his/her views are clearly unpleasant, but to trumpet this on multiple internet forums as 'racial abuse', I believe is somewhat misrepresentative.

BUT...i accept that the above is me throwing nuance and caveats into the issue, and in all likelihood, the person being castigated is indeed just a racist....so lets say we agree on that...

Which brings me to my second (and main) point...How is it that destroying his/her business will ensure the racism does not continue? In all likelihood it will make the person even more unpleasant towards 'social justice warriors/snowflakes/BLM/BAME Communities/Immigrants' (or whatever label he/she will associate with the people who ruined his/her business). I don't agree with the zeal with which Tracey has gone straight to 'destruction of the business' as her first instinct, because she believed PJ Carpet Cleaning is racist. Would it not be better to engage this person? Attempt to prove how foolish, ill-informed, and prejudiced these views are through open discussion? I personally think that would be a more constructive solution, rather than trying to use 'hate' to defeat 'hate'...

PS: In anticipation of likely replies - Just because i disagree with how this has been dealt with, does not make me an apologist for racism (which I can see someone on here accusing me of). I'd encourage anyone thinking along those lines to actually read what i've said properly, rather than throw labels out as a kneejerk reaction. If we cant have an actual discussion about this stuff (rather than just silencing or 'destroying' dissenting voices), then we really are f#@ked.

[pk]

so Cat, what is it that you do to 'defeat hate'?

who have you engaged with and proved that their views were foolish, ill informed and prejudiced?

[Blah Blah]

I think it is clear what the PJ Cleaning person was referring to in his/ her description of the party smells. No-one is fooled by that. Not a business I would ever want to employ as a result.

[TheCat]

pk Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> so Cat, what is it that you do to 'defeat hate'?

>

> who have you engaged with and proved that their

> views were foolish, ill informed and prejudiced?

So you dont agree with me that PJ Carpet Cleaning's views were "foolish, ill informed and prejudiced"?

odd position to take pk.

[pk]

TheCat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> pk Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > so Cat, what is it that you do to 'defeat

> hate'?

> >

> > who have you engaged with and proved that their

> > views were foolish, ill informed and

> prejudiced?

>

> So you dont agree with me that PJ Carpet

> Cleaning's views were "foolish, ill informed and

> prejudiced"?

>

> odd position to take pk.

so you've engaged with PJ and explained that have you?

to be clear the thing that you've made up as being my position is something that you've made up (probably cos you get kicks out of being weirdly provocative on issues of race)

[TheCat]

pk Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> TheCat Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > pk Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > so Cat, what is it that you do to 'defeat

> > hate'?

> > >

> > > who have you engaged with and proved that

> their

> > > views were foolish, ill informed and

> > prejudiced?

> >

> > So you dont agree with me that PJ Carpet

> > Cleaning's views were "foolish, ill informed

> and

> > prejudiced"?

> >

> > odd position to take pk.

>

>

> so you've engaged with PJ and explained that have

> you?

>

> to be clear the thing that you've made up as being

> my position is something that you've made up

> (probably cos you get kicks out of being weirdly

> provocative on issues of race)

As it happens you're the one being provocative today.....

...your suggestion that im being unreasonable by not going out of my way to reach out to PJ carpet cleaning to engage with them on the issue is quite ridiculous. Im engageing on here...thats a start..what are you doing? other that taking pot shots? The proponent on the facebook screenshots was already engaged with him/her....there was the prime opportunity for en gagement, but instead, another route was chosen.

PK....By going down this avenue, you are the one who is distracting from the key issues, and making this about your ongoing vendetta to have a go at me every time i post anything.

[pk]

TheCat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> pk Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > TheCat Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > pk Wrote:

> > >

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> >

> > > -----

> > > > so Cat, what is it that you do to 'defeat

> > > hate'?

> > > >

> > > > who have you engaged with and proved that

> > their

> > > > views were foolish, ill informed and

> > > prejudiced?

> > >

> > > So you dont agree with me that PJ Carpet

> > > Cleaning's views were "foolish, ill informed

> > and

> > > prejudiced"?

> > >

> > > odd position to take pk.

> >

> >

> > so you've engaged with PJ and explained that

> have

> > you?

> >

> > to be clear the thing that you've made up as

> being

> > my position is something that you've made up

> > (probably cos you get kicks out of being

> weirdly

> > provocative on issues of race)

>

> As it happens you're the one being provocative

> today......I'd be fascinated to hear why you dont

> think those views/comments from PJ Carpet Cleaning

> are a problematic?

>

Please show me where I?ve said that (or implied)

> No....as you well know....I havent engaged with PJ

> carpet cleaning for proof. This is a forum, not a

> court of law. Its my opinion based on what I've

> seen. It seems like (again an opinion) also

> everyone else's view thats posted on this

> thread...so why are you not having a go at them

> for labelling it 'racial abuse' without any

> 'proof'? oh...is it becuased you're once again

> blinded by your desire have a go at me about

> something/anything?

You?re the one going on about engaging not me, but not you don?t seem to be doing it just criticising someone who has

I asked what you do to engage and you have no answer

[TheCat]

your original post was poorly worded.

"who have you engaged with and proved that their views were foolish, ill informed and prejudiced?"

That reads like you saying those views weren't all of those things. My Apologies for that accusation.

I now see that you were trying to have a crack at me in a different way to I first thought. But in your true to form style its still rather pathetic, as I've said in my last post above.

[pk]

TheCat Wrote:

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> your original post was poorly worded.

>

> "who have you engaged with and proved that their

> views were foolish, ill informed and prejudiced??

You said:

?Would it not be better to engage this person? Attempt to prove how foolish, ill-informed, and prejudiced these views are...??

So I ask you how you do that yourself

It?s quite simple

[Lemming]

This guy seems to be a bona fide Grade A bell-end.

If anyone 'of colour' or 'not' wishes to 'reach out' and engage his carpet cleaning services as a means of drawing him into a lengthy but constructive discussion re prejudice, xenophobia and racism - in order to bring healing to a hurting world .. I wish them well.

I have a Vax.