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Brick House Cafe "is not a creche"


Nigello

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Edit - I had a rethink about this and it?s a tricky balance actually and not sure how I feel, if our little boy starts to cry we will try to settle him if that doesn?t work then it?s probably home time as he needs a sleep! He was quite unsettled as a small baby so didn?t really do long stints in cafes a way until he was old enough to be entertained and kept occupied


That said my wife was in health matters today and apparently there was a kid in there running around and doing sliding skids on the floor whilst the mother casually perused the shelves. Anyone who has been to that shop will know it?s compact and definitely not the place to be running around in... - she felt sorry for the staff that they had to put up with it

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Rubbish. The owner didn't 'turf them', merely asked her to step outside for a while with said kiddy after it had gone for (according to them) three minutes (but probably a fair bit longer). But instead she and her friends decided to storm out in a huff and complain on social media, which although seems to have the initial effect they wanted, seems to be coming down in favour of the cafe. So, 2-1 to the cafe, it seems.


The parent should have had enough self-awareness to take the crying baby outside herself until it settled. What is wrong with some people?

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FFS - the little one was only three months old. It seems wholly unreasonable that the Mother should be given her marching orders because her very small baby was crying. The Brick House should be ashamed of themselves.


Furthermore, the owner is banging on about ?protecting his business? in response to this incident - but surely this attitude will in fact be detrimental to his business. I?m no expert in running a cafe in ED - but I suspect the Brick House will benefit from the revenue brought in by Mothers who visit with their children - particularly in the week. This attitude will only make these Mums feel unwelcome therefore turning business away.

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Loz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Rubbish. The owner didn't 'turf them', merely

> asked her to step outside for a while with said

> kiddy after it had gone for (according to them)

> three minutes (but probably a fair bit longer).

> But instead she and her friends decided to storm

> out in a huff and complain on social media, which

> although seems to have the initial effect they

> wanted, seems to be coming down in favour of the

> cafe. So, 2-1 to the cafe, it seems.

>

> The parent should have had enough self-awareness

> to take the crying baby outside herself until it

> settled. What is wrong with some people?


Seen the weather outside? What's wrong with you? Babies cry, get over it. Personally I find arseholes having long and loud conversations on their mobiles far more annoying than crying babies. If children behave badly their parents should be asked to control them and if they don't they should be asked to leave. A three month old baby crying is not misbehaving and only the absurdly intolerant, entitled and/or pompous wouldn't be able to shrug it off as part of life. Seriously, what sort of utter cock would complain to a caf? owner because a very small baby was crying? What sort of idiot caf? owner would take such a complaint seriously?


Interesting that you've totally bought the caf? owner's story because it suits your point of view - indeed you've embellished it "probably a fair bit longer" - were you there?

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I'm sorry, but I think that it's disgusting the lack of self-awareness and sense of entitlement some parents display (and I underline some).


Yes kids cry. Some parents handle it better than others. Those that don't should be reminded that they are not the centre of the universe and to have a bit more consideration for others.


What kind of utter cock thinks their rights trump everyone elses?

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P.O.U.S.theWonderCat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------


> What kind of utter cock thinks their rights trump

> everyone elses?


The sort of utter cock who wants parents to be asked to leave a caf? and go and stand outside in the pissing rain and freezing cold because a three-month-old crying baby is disturbing their "right" to drink a latte undisturbed, one imagines.

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I would never presume to make a sweeping statement that all people who object to parent's conduct are justified, because it depends largely on the particular situation. Or call them all utter cocks. That would sugggest a blinkered and unreasonable point of view.


Sometimes kids cry and people are unreasonably tolerant. Sometimes kids cry and parents do nothing about it and expect everyone to just put up with it because they are Parents and therefore don't need to take others into consideration. Both situations are equally deplorable.

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P.O.U.S.theWonderCat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Sorry, my mistake - were you there?


Well clearly you were as you've decided that the parent(s) of a crying three-month-old baby were displaying a "disgusting lack of self-awareness and sense of entitlement."


I have no dog in this fight, I don't have children and the atrocious way some parents allow their kids to run around misbehaving in pubs, caf?s, public transport, museums, galleries etc drives me to distraction. I simply don't think a crying newborn fits the bill of bad behaviour nor the sanction of being asked to go and stand outside in the cold and rain.

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No, I wasn't claiming anything of the sort. I was parodying the knee jerk reactions of some on this thread. And I take it from your reaction that you were not there, and thus the claim of what actually happened merely hyperbole.


Unless you were there, you don't actually know what happened, so calling people "utter cocks" is unmerited.

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P.O.U.S.theWonderCat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> No, I wasn't claiming anything of the sort. I was

> parodying the knee jerk reactions of some on this

> thread. And I take it from your reaction that you

> were not there, and thus the claim of what

> actually happened merely hyperbole.

>

> Unless you were there, you don't actually know

> what happened, so calling people "utter cocks" is

> unmerited.


If the story as reported in the press and seemingly confirmed by the caf? owners is true, some person or persons complained to the caf? management because a three-month-old baby was crying, and the caf? staff, in response, told the parent to take the baby outside. I completely stand by my assertion that a person who would go to the lengths of making such a complaint is an utter cock - and a coward to boot, why didn't they speak directly to the parent instead of running to the staff with a complaint? If the story as portrayed in the press and by the proprietor's statement is untrue, so be it, but I'm not sure why the proprietor would confirm a story which many would see as reflecting great discredit upon him unless it were true.

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I?ve always been a big fan of Brick. I like their Bostocks and their coffee?s good. I also see a lot of people in there with kids who often maybe cross the line a bit in terms of the kid?s behaviour. That said Ive also been I also have two kids and my two year old likes to scream everywhere she goes, without rhyme or reason. Normally I choose not to take her out to cafes and restaurants for that reason, though if I am out in a public place (eg bus, plane, cafe) and she?s kicking off, I?ve been known to react badly to people who ask me to control her.


Who knows what the exact circumstances were. What is for sure is that East Dulwich and the surrounding environs will always be home to lots of people with kids. And kids like to cry. And probably, IMO, not the most ideal public relations move by Brick to give such an EDF baiting line as ?this isn?t a creche?. But hey, I still like their Bostocks and coffee, so I?ll probably go there. But without my kids.


And I still maintain that people without kids are less hassle than the coffee shop liggers on their Macs who sit in cafes like Brick for half a day buying just a coffee. The good thing about people with kids is they?re likely to be in and out in 45 mins tops...

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Loz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Rubbish. The owner didn't 'turf them', merely

> asked her to step outside for a while with said

> kiddy after it had gone for (according to them)

> three minutes (but probably a fair bit longer).

> But instead she and her friends decided to storm

> out in a huff and complain on social media, which

> although seems to have the initial effect they

> wanted, seems to be coming down in favour of the

> cafe. So, 2-1 to the cafe, it seems.

>

> The parent should have had enough self-awareness

> to take the crying baby outside herself until it

> settled. What is wrong with some people?



I'm totally on the side of the Brick-House and what a sniveling s**t the mother was who ran to the press about this.

I do find there are groups of mothers with babies who are totally oblivious to the needs of other customers in the place and spread out in big groups with buggies blocking the way, Carry cots (or car seat things)on the tables, wet wipes, feeding gear, back packs..again all on the tables leaving it hard for a customer like myself spending ?12 on a relaxed lunch to find a clear space to eat.

I'm not a baby hater BUT I think its ridiculous the way these groups seem to take over large areas of the cafe for long periods of time (Longer than it takes me to get served,eat, digest and leave)nursing a cup of coffee a piece.

I've also witnessed in a last week a mum letting her baby sit and crawl on the table..unhygenic and possibly dangerous for the baby should it grab an item of cutlery.

They seem to treat it as some sort of 'club'....If your baby is crying as babies will at times pick it up, walk up and down, soothe it and if worst comes to worst take it outside and walk up and down the street for a few mins.

The baby was probably crying because it wanted to be out in the fresh air being wheeled along seeing interesting colours and life-it was probably bored out of its mind being stuck in a cafe for hours listening to its mother going yadda yadda over an empty coffee cup with her mates.

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P.O.U.S.theWonderCat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I'm sorry, but I think that it's disgusting the

> lack of self-awareness and sense of entitlement

> some parents display (and I underline some).

>

> Yes kids cry. Some parents handle it better than

> others. Those that don't should be reminded that

> they are not the centre of the universe and to

> have a bit more consideration for others.

>

> What kind of utter cock thinks their rights trump

> everyone elses?


basically what is quoted above!

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NewWave Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------


> I'm totally on the side of the Brick-House and

> what a sniveling s**t the mother was who ran to

> the press about this.

> I do find there are groups of mothers with babies

> who are totally oblivious to the needs of other

> customers in the place and spread out in big

> groups with buggies blocking the way, Carry cots

> (or car seat things)on the tables, wet wipes,

> feeding gear, back packs..again all on the tables

> leaving it hard for a customer like myself

> spending ?12 on a relaxed lunch to find a clear

> space to eat.

> I'm not a baby hater BUT I think its ridiculous

> the way these groups seem to take over large areas

> of the cafe for long periods of time (Longer than

> it takes me to get served,eat, digest and

> leave)nursing a cup of coffee a piece.

> I've also witnessed in a last week a mum letting

> her baby sit and crawl on the table..unhygenic and

> possibly dangerous for the baby should it grab an

> item of cutlery.

> They seem to treat it as some sort of 'club'....If

> your baby is crying as babies will at times pick

> it up, walk up and down, soothe it and if worst

> comes to worst take it outside and walk up and

> down the street for a few mins.

> The baby was probably crying because it wanted to

> be out in the fresh air being wheeled along seeing

> interesting colours and life-it was probably bored

> out of its mind being stuck in a cafe for hours

> listening to its mother going yadda yadda over an

> empty coffee cup with her mates.


As Loz has, you've completely made up a scenario which is not supported by the facts of the story as reported by either side. All the facts we know are 1) a baby was crying, 2) a customer complained to the management, 3) management asked the parent to take the baby outside. You may not be a baby hater but you certainly seem to have a big old chip on your shoulder about mothers.


ETA You may wish to note from the thread in the family room that apparently the mother complained via private message and the caf? chose to respond publicly on Instagram (a response they've now deleted). So calling the mother a "snivelling shit who ran to the press" is not only highly unpleasant but totally inaccurate.

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Also in the Standard: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/row-as-trendy-east-dulwich-caf-asks-customer-to-leave-over-crying-baby-a3763571.html


And BTW - duplicate thread in Family Discussion.


I have been disturbed by screaming toddlers et al in cafes/on busese etc, but my first instinct is to try to distract them, not complain about them. If the parent is ignoring their behaviour, encourage the parent to engage with their child rather than run to complain.


A three month old baby crying for a couple of minutes however is a completely different kettle of fish - the parent should be supported, not asked to leave. The baby is not misbehaving.


The Bake House has shot itself in the foot - if that is how they choose to treat customers with small, crying babies how will they treat others (elderly/infirm/disabled) who aren't conforming?

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NewWave Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------




> I'm totally on the side of the Brick-House and

> what a sniveling s**t the mother was who ran to

> the press about this.


Regardless of your opinion on babies in coffee shops, this is an unfair point. The press picked up on the comments made by thr mother?s friend on social media. From what i can see, no one involved has commented or spoken to the press at all.


With regards the point about parents of young children in coffee places, it?s hard to empathise but being a new mother is a very isolating experience. When my eldest was tiny, weekly meet ups with other parents in a place like this were my only contact with other adults. As the kids get older you can take them to playgroups etc but when they are tiny there is a limit to what you can fo with them, especially when the weather is foul.

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rendelharris Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------


> Seen the weather outside?


This was, apparently, Friday. Fine and sunny, though a little cold. Or, the exact weather they then chose to decamp their whole group to after all the toys were thrown out the pram.


> As Loz has, you've completely made up a scenario which is not supported by the facts of the story

> as reported by either side. All the facts we know are 1) a baby was crying, 2) a customer complained

> to the management, 3) management asked the parent to take the baby outside.


Oh dear, it's rendellworld again. Which part of my post was a 'made up scenario'. Come on - quote me which bit was made up (excepting, of course, the bits where I firmly indicated conjecture. Clues: the words "probably" and "seems").


> You may wish to note from the thread in the family room that apparently the mother complained via private message and the caf? chose to respond publicly on Instagram (a response they've now deleted).


Or, you may wish to do your own research and note that a) the cafe responded to one of the 'friends' posting on their Instagram page and b) the whole thread is still there and has not been deleted at all.


For someone who is so quick to accuse others of making stuff up, you sure do talk a lot of utterly fictional guff.

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