Advice needed - builder's bill 86% over quote

[Jubels]

Dear forumeers,

I have a terrace house in East Dulwich and since November have had builders in building a side return and improving the bathroom. My original quote was ?67k. Obviously I put a contingency factor on this allowing the project to run into the top end of 80k for hidden extras. My builder has known my budget could not go above 90k. Over the last weeks he has been deliberately evasive when I continually asked how much I have gone over budget. He planned for 8 weeks project time. We are now on week 14. Yesterday he issued me with a spreadsheet saying the project so far is ?125k - not even finished. 86.5% more than the original quote. There have been additional unforeseen extras such as larger steels necessary, ceiling improvement and added insulation, but I don't see how adds up to ?58k extra. All of these extras he has gone ahead with without offering me a price and being vague. Do you think I have much room for negotiation? He has billed me with a spreadsheet of man hours and materials which I can't cross reference against the original quote. Has anyone got any advice or experienced this before? I'd be really grateful for help.

Thanks and best wishes, Jubels.

[Sue]

Can't really help, except to offer sympathy, but if it was me I'd pay what you think the work is worth and tell him to sue you for the balance.

Which he won't do if he is trying it on and can't justify the bill.

You could maybe get another builder (or someone in the business) to look at the spreadsheet he has given you and see if they can make sense of it and explain it to you?

It sounds like an awful lot of money.

You could try phoning the trading standards people at Southwark Council and see what they say? They were very helpful when I contacted them about a very much more minor matter.

ETA: Good luck. What a nightmare. Building work is stressful enough without something like that happening.

[Interior DesignerBu]

J do not pay a penny more

Please use what money you have to complete your project

Let them take you to court they have no chance

Do you have a contract with these people ?

You need to get rid of them ASAP and get a team who has a heart

Even if you were buying a high end German kitchen 124k is madness

I think they believe you have money and they want it and just using your buiding work to rip you off !!

If you get stuck come back and I will make sure your job is completed if you have enough to complete the work,

For now good luck.

Rob

[bcam]

What does your contract say?

Are the budget and contingency figures clearly mentioned? Either in the contract or clearly in email communication with your builder?

Any increases over an agreed % should be discussed and agreed in advance between you and the builder, otherwise it's your builder who is responsible.

Stop all work immediately.

Request a formal budget review meeting with your builder.

If you are not comfortable being confrontational, make sure you have someone with you who is. Don't be bulldozed.

If you don't have a resolution by the end of it, fire your builder and consider legal action to recover money paid.

As Rob says above, us the remaining money to complete your project with someone else.

[Jubels]

Dear Forumeers,

Thanks so much for your support and advice. If there's one thing I've realised through this crisis it's how many kind people are there to help and support me.

I have no contract. Everything has been verbally agreed. My builder was very careful to leave no paper trail and for me to pay him in cash. He has been deliberately vague about escalating costs despite me asking him for updates every week. He has been a 'runaway train' in terms of added extras he's gone ahead with, only notifying me retrospectively.

When I have explained my very top end budget - 25k factor above quote (I am in part-time education and a freelance journalist with unreliable income), he has suggested I ask my dad for the extra money or owe him the money over the next few years, joking 'I know where you live'. I have been VERY CLEAR I do not want to owe him money. He has speculated as to how much money my dad has venturing 'Well, if he had a big HMRC bill he must have money'.

I assume my builder has identified me as a privileged and vulnerable young woman, living alone in a terrace house, whose daddy will bail her out.

As soon as I received his spreadsheet of ?125k I told him to stop work immediately. Today he is clearing the site of materials and equipment but he has sent me a message saying he will send me an updated list of costs?? Don't know what those may be since he hasn't done any further work following the ?125k spreadsheet. I am going to get a quantity surveyor to look at the site to see what would be a fair amount to settle on.

With the project suspended I now need to find a new builder, electrician, plumber. But finding it so difficult to trust any tradesmen, so genuine recommendations welcome. Don't want my 'damsel in distress' status to be in factor in any hasty decisions.

As of today, the project costs have reached ?83k with ?77k going to my builder.

Jubels.

[KidKruger]

If you've paid ?77K to your builder in cash (if I read correctly), HMRC would be very interested.

I think having verbal agreements and no contract from the start, leaves one open to the problems that having a contract is intended to avoid.

[cella]

KidKruger Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> If you've paid ?77K to your builder in cash (if I

> read correctly), HMRC would be very interested.

> I think having verbal agreements and no contract

> from the start, leaves one open to the problems

> that having a contract is intended to avoid.

Indeed and the small businesses & handymen/individual posters on here should bear that in mind when blatantly asking for cash in hand.

[curlylocks]

Hi Jubels,

Sounds horrible. Which? offer good consumer legal advice. You do have to be a member but I don't think there is a minimum term for membership.

This might be another option http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/schools/law-and-social-sciences/subjects/law/legal-advice-clinic

There is also Cambridge House legal advice centre in Camberwell, not sure whether they do consumer law but if not might recommend someone who does.

Hope that helps.

[Jubels]

Thanks Curly Locks.

I spoke to Citizens Advice Bureau and they were wonderful. Have been referred to Trading Standards. I should be protected by Consumer Rights Act. I think the outcome will probably be that I pay a Quantity Surveyor to work out what a fair price of the work done would be and negotiate from there.

[Dulwich handy]

I do this kind of work ...

Agreement is bonding

If your builder give you quote it can increase by 10% due to delays ...

I.e.

Lost time

For materials beeing delivered late etc.

Don't let people take your money of you ...

Looks like the guy likes to start and f*** off with your money .

Sorry

Trade and standards will help

Good luck

D

[Sue]

Good luck, Jubels.

There are some really nasty tradespeople about, unfortunately (and of course some really lovely ones).

I was once in a similar situation (though nothing like as bad) with my money going into a seemingly endless pit, everything being done at a snail's pace or not at all, and a load of lies being told to me (and about me, to other people).

What I learned after that, though, was don't on any account employ anybody who approaches you via the forum messaging system having read this thread, unless you check out their references very very thoroughly indeed.

They all sound sympathetic and nice and sorry for you, and anxious to help you get the work completed after your horrible experience, and they appear to be sympathetic and nice when you meet them in person, and you will be desperate to get the work finished, but in my experience they may just make your problems worse.

ALWAYS CHECK OUT REFERENCES! (I wish I had listened to my own advice).

And if something doesn't feel right to you - it probably isn't. Run a mile.

I really feel for you.

[Interior DesignerBu]

We offer a building & project management service.

The client monies are paid to us and we manage your money and the project with our builders or your builders.we are responsible for paying the builders, if they have done the wk

This way every penny spent has to be agreed with you first, if the builders are not delivering with the project programme we tackle this and if necessary we sack them but will have enough money left to complete your job.

Some people are happy to pay for this service some are not but you will never find yourself in this position using our services,

So going forward this is an area to consider.

Rob

[Dodo1]

Hi

Yes recommend Which Legal only 9 a month.

Also in future would recommend a JCT Agreement I think it is called which any good builder would be happy to sign.

This sets out everything expected from both parties; so there are no misunderstandings.

Also for this type of work I would recommend going through an Architect who will project manage. Our one for example set out line by line what was to be done, materials to be used and when payment would be made via her (found through forum).

I know this won't help you but hopefully will help anyone else.

[gabys1st]

has a crook builder................ CAB gateway to Southwark Trading Standards. Very helpful CAB advisor talked me through the steps needed to take, also a useful web site.

[jmills]

Hi there

I'm really sorry to hear your news about your builder and in the future I would recommend you appoint an architect to assist you with this process. We are often not appointed as there is a perception we cost too much, however we work within your budget offering you a design to your brief and monitor the budget to avoid these situations. It is usually a false economy to not appoint an architect as we can be flexible with our scope of services to each client.

Initially, I would advise you seek legal advice with regards to any payments. If there was no contract he will have difficulty claiming any further money. I would also recommend a QS who can quantify the works completed and recommend Bhangals.

A side return extension from experience costs on average ?150k and it may be that the design was not achievable for your budget from the outset which your builder has neglected to tell you. In the future, working with an architect, the project would be designed to the budget with the design fully coordinated and costed before works commence. Once works begin, we would administer a JCT contract between yourself and the builder. All instructions have to be issued by the architect which tracks changes, plus updates the construction cost with omissions/additions called variations. We conduct valuations once fortnightly and payment is made only for the value of the works completed. In addition, at each valuation 5% is retained with half the retention paid at the completion (ie 97.5%) leaving you with 2.5% in your pocket for defects. The builder then has to complete the defects schedule within 3 months.

Not to alarm you further, but have the works been inspected by building control? This is a further legal requirement that you will have to complete to verify the works meet the building regulations. If you require an approved inspector we would recommend JHAI.

Best of luck resolving your situation,

Jayne