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messageRe: What can the council do to make things easier during COVID-19?
Posted by first mate August 03, 04:46PM

An unfair and snide response Rahrahrah. If you cannot block off even more of the high street to accommodate social distancing then surely the only other option is to start to ‘reclaim’ parking on side streets? It isn’t ‘all about me and my car’ it is about finding a reasonable balance. For some the car is a necessary ‘evil’; unfortunately I fall into that category. I’d love to be in a position where that was not the case and it must be wonderful for those (like you?) that can choose to be car-less.

messageRe: What can the council do to make things easier during COVID-19?
Posted by rahrahrah August 03, 05:12PM

first mate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> An unfair and snide response Rahrahrah. If you
> cannot block off even more of the high street to
> accommodate social distancing then surely the only
> other option is to start to ‘reclaim’ parking on
> side streets? It isn’t ‘all about me and my car’
> it is about finding a reasonable balance. For some
> the car is a necessary ‘evil’; unfortunately I
> fall into that category. I’d love to be in a
> position where that was not the case and it must
> be wonderful for those (like you?) that can choose
> to be car-less.

I think we have to prioritise social distancing and saving local businesses right now, even if it means some loss of parking.

I don't think this is a thread to talk about the gripes of some drivers, but as you have raised it - I am very much in favour of a 'reasonable balance' in terms of how public space is allocated. The current domination of motor vehicles over almost every public space is not balanced.

TFL estimate that around 40% of adults in the borough, have household access to car.

There are 3 million licensed vehicles in London with the average car spending 95% of it's time parked (around half of these are 'stored' on the street). A third of journeys are less than 2km.

The amount of public space allocated just to cars left parked in the street is equivalent to around 10 Hyde Parks. We allocate very, very little dedicated space to pedestrians, cyclists etc. in comparison.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit was august 03, 05:19pm by rahrahrah.

messageRe: What can the council do to make things easier during COVID-19?
Posted by rahrahrah August 03, 05:16PM

... but you know, heaven forbid that people should be able to pass one another safely in the street.

messageRe: What can the council do to make things easier during COVID-19?
Posted by first mate August 03, 06:24PM

So let those who can give up their cars do so right now and lead by example. Then others, who currently genuinely have to use a car, won’t end up totally hamstrung by the inference that certain streets, where those making the suggestion probably do not live, should be forced to give up parking to facilitate social distancing for shoppers.

With the amount of people currently paying little or any heed to SD, very few wearing masks, I also query the real value of imposing these changes at the moment. If we go back into lockdown road traffic will be much reduced anyway and SD become easier.

Finally, a genuine need is not a ‘gripe’.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was august 03, 06:27pm by first mate.

messageRe: What can the council do to make things easier during COVID-19?
Posted by Penguin68 August 04, 09:50AM

... but you know, heaven forbid that people should be able to pass one another safely in the street.

In this weather, sunny and breezy, and if you are talking about actually walking past people and not stopping to chat, then a metre or less of clearance will be quite safe. The 2 metre rule (which anyway now has been reduced) reflected long (10 minutes or more) contact in enclosed spaces (so still relevant for e.g. shops and supermarkets). Actually, normal walking at normal clearances, even unmasked, is almost entirely risk free in these weather conditions. Bumping into people is different, of course, but I really wouldn't be worried about passing people quite close in the street.

Of course, if you yourself are symptomatic, stay at home and isolate.

messageRe: What can the council do to make things easier during COVID-19?
Posted by Pugwash August 04, 11:58AM

My daughter who is a NHS worker states that on her ward when they had a covid patient (in a single room) they were advised not t0 spend more than 15 minutes in the room, to wash hands before and after going into room and wear mask and apron. As Penguin stated above - just walking past someone in the street is fairly risk free - less so if they are coughing and sneezing and neither of you are wearing masks .

messageRe: What can the council do to make things easier during COVID-19?
Posted by rahrahrah August 06, 07:27AM

So we need not worry about social distancing. The council should not concern itself, we can all push past each other. Ok



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was august 06, 07:31am by rahrahrah.

messageRe: What can the council do to make things easier during COVID-19?
Posted by rahrahrah August 06, 07:37AM

Penguin68 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ... but you know, heaven forbid that people should
> be able to pass one another safely in the street.
>
> In this weather, sunny and breezy, and if you are
> talking about actually walking past people and not
> stopping to chat, then a metre or less of
> clearance will be quite safe. The 2 metre rule
> (which anyway now has been reduced) reflected long
> (10 minutes or more) contact in enclosed spaces
> (so still relevant for e.g. shops and
> supermarkets). Actually, normal walking at normal
> clearances, even unmasked, is almost entirely risk
> free in these weather conditions. Bumping into
> people is different, of course, but I really
> wouldn't be worried about passing people quite
> close in the street.
>
> Of course, if you yourself are symptomatic, stay
> at home and isolate.

Good to hear that there is no risk of Transmission ‘in this weather’. And asymptomatic transmission isn’t a thing after all. As long as you’re outside you can’t catch coronavirus! No need to keep your distance or wear a mask. Great

messageRe: What can the council do to make things easier during COVID-19?
Posted by Penguin68 August 06, 09:58AM

Good to hear that there is no risk of Transmission ‘in this weather’. And asymptomatic transmission isn’t a thing after all. As long as you’re outside you can’t catch coronavirus! No need to keep your distance or wear a mask. Great

You seem very keen to put words in my mouth - I didn't say (as you suggest above) that you could 'push past people' - indeed I said that 'bumping into' people was different.

And it is the government's own scientists who are clear that in the open air, in wind and sunshine, the virus dissipates and dies quickly. I never said there was 'no risk' - just that the risk was substantially reduced. And the 2 metre/ 10 minute rule (again) was specifically referencing indoors encounters - something I was again clear about. If you exclude from 'the public' symptomatic people you are left with the active asymptomatic - probably on current figures a third of the actively unwell may be asymptomatic.

Most recent figures show Southwark with 1493 confirmed cases - if we assume that these are self isolating then possibly another 800 are asymptomatic. Southwark has a population of 332,000 so on that basis every 415 person you walk past might be an asymptomatic carrier.

The 'rules' about social distancing in social (i.e. if you're chatting) conditions - and indeed hand-washing, still apply - so I would still maintain that walking past (not brushing past) people within 2 metres, indeed within one metre in warm, sunny and breezy conditions is relatively (not absolutely, of course) safe.

Creating sufficient outside space so that no one ever comes within 2 metres of anyone else would be madness. And very unnecessary.

messageRe: What can the council do to make things easier during COVID-19?
Posted by rahrahrah August 06, 10:35AM

If you have to push past the queue outside M&S, you're getting extremely close to others (have a look at the photo of Chesterfield). It only takes someone to cough or sneeze as you're squeezing past to risk infection. The council should be making sure that it's possible to walk down the street comfortably, whilst maintaining reasonable distance from others.

We're not talking about normal walking at normal clearances, because there are queues on the street which didn't exist before. And to suggest that outside in good weather, you are almost entirely risk free is certainly not in line with current guidance.

messageRe: What can the council do to make things easier during COVID-19?
Posted by rahrahrah August 08, 06:07PM

I noticed today that M&S appear to have taken action where the council has failed, by putting in a tape barrier and encouraging people to queue in the other direction. Good on them

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