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Which pubs, bars, restaurants and take-aways do you avoid?
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messageRe: Stay your distance (including in Dulwich park)
Posted by janmac March 25, 03:03PM

Although the eager finger-pointers think they are doing a public service by policing the new public health guidance, they are actually destructive of civil society, trust and our ability to talk to each other and negotiate the incredibly drastic new ways of living. We have to accept that there will not be 100% compliance, that's the case with any law or rule. It doesn't mean we all have a meltdown and start lynching people.

messageRe: Stay your distance (including in Dulwich park)
Posted by KidKruger March 25, 03:24PM

If the deadly disease can be spread by being closer than 2m to one another, and some people (one example may be joggers) are knowingly getting closer to strangers just to maintain their 'rights', then it's fair to call them out.
...before keeling over from the illness, or passing on the disease to an elderly relative.
It's reasonable to not expect 100% compliance (which is predictable), but not reasonable to be expected to just allow people to blatantly risk your health !

It would appear to be a serious matter from what I'm aware so far.

messageRe: Stay your distance (including in Dulwich park)
Posted by janmac March 25, 03:48PM

But there is a big difference between generally trying to reduce physical contact to minimise risk across the whole population and regarding every possible encounter as toxic and deadly. The chances of contracting it from a passing runner or cyclist are ridiculously tiny compared to all the surface-touching we do with our families or in shops.

messageRe: Stay your distance (including in Dulwich park)
Posted by KidKruger March 25, 04:06PM

I guess I'd say "is the 2m distance recommended BS or reasonable" ?
If BS, then hey let's party like it don't matter.
If reasonable (and accurate) then pls keep away from me to that minimum distance !

Just as we can't expect 100% of people to abide by recommendations, we also can't expect 100% of people to be blasť about ensuring the recommended distances are maintained on a personal level.
In my view, debating chances of X or Y likelihood when we have clear guidelines is sort of moot, no ?

Personally I'd rather err on the side of caution and I don't feel like I'm destroying civil society by telling joggers to back off (which I haven't !) OR mentioning on forum threads where such things are being discussed.

messageRe: Stay your distance (including in Dulwich park)
Posted by janmac March 25, 04:17PM

shouting at people and condemning people has its own negative consequences. We have to be able to function as a society during and after this health crisis.

messageRe: Stay your distance (including in Dulwich park)
Posted by womanofdulwich March 25, 04:21PM

We could pin A4 sheets on ourselves indicating we want a 2m distance maintained,

messageRe: Stay your distance (including in Dulwich park)
Posted by KidKruger March 25, 04:39PM

janmac Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> shouting at people and condemning people has its
> own negative consequences. We have to be able to
> function as a society during and after this health
> crisis.

I haven't seen anyone shouting at anyone else, or even intending to, have you ?
Negative consequences of not ensuring safe distance are surely significant too, isn't that what we're all being advised ?!

WOD - lol, I may actually try that. But alas, I expect I'll have to provide tape measures and a 30min induction as to what it's for !!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was march 25, 04:39pm by KidKruger.

messageRe: Stay your distance (including in Dulwich park)
Posted by NewWave March 25, 05:21PM

womanofdulwich Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We could pin A4 sheets on ourselves indicating we
> want a 2m distance maintained,


Shouldn't everyone want that?
Aside from my partner I have dilligently maintained a minimum 2m distance between myself and others.
This is to protect them as much as myself.
Please be mindful whether on a bike walking or jogging this illness can kill.

messageRe: Stay your distance (including in Dulwich park)
Posted by Siduhe March 25, 05:26PM

janmac Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> shouting at people and condemning people has its
> own negative consequences. We have to be able to
> function as a society during and after this health
> crisis.

For me that's exactly the point - people should be taking steps to put society first, and their own personal preferences second. I wouldn't dream of calling out someone who is taking reasonable steps to keep 2m apart from others while jogging in the park, but someone who is running around without any care of the people around them, expecting them to get out of his/her way is something else. And I'm absolutely fine with someone taking a different view of the risks to their own health of the coronavirus, but much less fine with someone who knowingly chooses to put other people's health at risk, so as not to be inconvenienced in their daily life. That's what functioning as a society means to me at least.

messageRe: Stay your distance (including in Dulwich park)
Posted by NewWave March 25, 05:30PM

Siduhe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> janmac Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > shouting at people and condemning people has
> its
> > own negative consequences. We have to be able
> to
> > function as a society during and after this
> health
> > crisis.
>
> For me that's exactly the point - people should be
> taking steps to put society first, and their own
> personal preferences second. I wouldn't dream of
> calling out someone who is taking reasonable steps
> to keep 2m apart from others while jogging in the
> park, but someone who is running around without
> any care of the people around them, expecting them
> to get out of his/her way is something else. And
> I'm absolutely fine with someone taking a
> different view of the risks to their own health of
> the coronavirus, but much less fine with someone
> who knowingly chooses to put other people's health
> at risk, so as not to be inconvenienced in their
> daily life. That's what functioning as a society
> means to me at least.


Bravo well said!

messageRe: Stay your distance (including in Dulwich park)
Posted by first mate March 25, 05:32PM

Siduhe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> janmac Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > shouting at people and condemning people has
> its
> > own negative consequences. We have to be able
> to
> > function as a society during and after this
> health
> > crisis.
>
> For me that's exactly the point - people should be
> taking steps to put society first, and their own
> personal preferences second. I wouldn't dream of
> calling out someone who is taking reasonable steps
> to keep 2m apart from others while jogging in the
> park, but someone who is running around without
> any care of the people around them, expecting them
> to get out of his/her way is something else. And
> I'm absolutely fine with someone taking a
> different view of the risks to their own health of
> the coronavirus, but much less fine with someone
> who knowingly chooses to put other people's health
> at risk, so as not to be inconvenienced in their
> daily life. That's what functioning as a society
> means to me at least.

Exactly this!

messageRe: Stay your distance (including in Dulwich park)
Posted by KidKruger March 25, 05:58PM

Yup.

Siduhe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> janmac Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > shouting at people and condemning people has
> its
> > own negative consequences. We have to be able
> to
> > function as a society during and after this
> health
> > crisis.
>
> For me that's exactly the point - people should be
> taking steps to put society first, and their own
> personal preferences second. I wouldn't dream of
> calling out someone who is taking reasonable steps
> to keep 2m apart from others while jogging in the
> park, but someone who is running around without
> any care of the people around them, expecting them
> to get out of his/her way is something else. And
> I'm absolutely fine with someone taking a
> different view of the risks to their own health of
> the coronavirus, but much less fine with someone
> who knowingly chooses to put other people's health
> at risk, so as not to be inconvenienced in their
> daily life. That's what functioning as a society
> means to me at least.

messageRe: Stay your distance (including in Dulwich park)
Posted by janmac March 25, 06:07PM

I don't have a problem with social pressure, but there's a point where it tips over into a moral crusade (albeit wearing the clothes health). If we go out and about scouting for 'transgressors' we ruin our own time in the fresh air, ramp up the fear levels (being outside the risk of transmission IS going to be lower than the risk of closer contact) and undermine our capacity to tolerate the more normal risks of everyday life.

messageRe: Stay your distance (including in Dulwich park)
Posted by doody March 25, 06:48PM

I honestly don't understand your point, Janmac. The guidelines are clear, we all want to continue to exercise in the outdoors safely. We have every right to object to those who are selfishly or thoughtlessly endangering others. I don't believe anyone is going out to police " transgressers", but if you encounter it whilst doing your best to follow the 2m advice, there is every serious reason to point this out to the people concerned, and/or flag it up for discussion. Maybe some people have simply not clearly understood the issue, may read this thread and be glad to change their behaviour outdoors. Win/ Win, I say. In any case, if people continue to disregard the advice, we will shortly be in complete lockdown, end of...

messageRe: Stay your distance (including in Dulwich park)
Posted by heartblock March 25, 06:55PM

Stay 2 metres apart, that is not a huge inconvenience for people. My friends who are health workers have a higher risk of catching and dying of Covid-19, so stop being selfish and do the right thing. On a more positive note.. if you do know a health worker, please cook them a meal to safely pick up in a cleaned plastic tub to microwave. They will appreciate the support.

messageRe: Stay your distance (including in Dulwich park)
Posted by Lowlander March 25, 08:52PM

janmac Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Although the eager finger-pointers think they are
> doing a public service by policing the new public
> health guidance, they are actually destructive of
> civil society, trust and our ability to talk to
> each other and negotiate the incredibly drastic
> new ways of living. We have to accept that there
> will not be 100% compliance, that's the case with
> any law or rule. It doesn't mean we all have a
> meltdown and start lynching people.

During WW2, did your predecessors feel the same way about the blackout?

messageRe: Stay your distance (including in Dulwich park)
Posted by KidKruger March 26, 10:19AM

Well, I'm ashamed to report I have this morning been destructive of civil society, trust and our ability to talk to each other and negotiate the incredibly drastic new ways of living.
Family of 5 stood static, spread out across a wide path, no way to pass through without being only 1-2ft away from at least one of them. We stood and waited a minute. Nothing, just stood there.
So I requested a gap / reminded the distance mentioned in the news, which they kindly provided for missus and I to walk single file through.
Sorry !

messageRe: Stay your distance (including in Dulwich park)
Posted by Ruskin March 26, 10:42AM

Some just find spacial awareness a particularly distant concept.

I posted a reply the other day in the 'runners in DP' thread after last running through there on Tuesday, making a huge point of avoiding anyone I saw, having to detour to maintain at least 2-3m. It really isn't a problem if your eyes are open.

I absolutely get that walkers find a panting human bearing down on them, intimidating - so, from one runner to another - it's exercise, not the Olympics.

messageRe: Stay your distance (including in Dulwich park)
Posted by seenbeen March 26, 10:56AM

The 2m thing is negated by the underground system. I know that the builders working next to me come in on public transport because they talk about it loudly outside my bedroom window in the morning.
[www.dailymail.co.uk]
At least less people died than yesterday.

messageRe: Stay your distance (including in Dulwich park)
Posted by JohnL March 26, 01:07PM

seenbeen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The 2m thing is negated by the underground system.
> I know that the builders working next to me come
> in on public transport because they talk about it
> loudly outside my bedroom window in the morning.
> [www.dailymail.co.uk]
> ury-Sadiq-Khan-grows-workers-forced-packed-Tubes-3
> rd-day-coronavirus-lockdown.html
> At least less people died than yesterday.

Being said that there is a change in counting - but don't understand a word of this guy on newsnight.

[twitter.com]

and this one says there is a cut off time change and he is the Whitehall Editor of The Times (whatever that is)

[twitter.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit was march 26, 01:12pm by JohnL.

messageRe: Stay your distance (including in Dulwich park)
Posted by susan_ March 26, 07:55PM

I walked up to Ruskin Park yesterday and someone had helpful written in chalk on the pavement in multiple places kind reminders of staying 2m distance and little diagrams showing this distance.

I donít have any chalk or I would happily add similar round the Rye...

I go out every day for a walk or a run and try to maintain the prescribed distance. Itís worth remembering that we all forget sometimes (I mean it is a dramatic change from normal life in an urban environment!) so Iíd be very glad of a (friendly) shouted reminder if I forget momentarily that the world is turned upside down at the moment. At the end of my run today I saw a lady hurrying on her way pass very very close to an elderly lady with her shopping. I wanted to call out some (friendly with a smile) reminder but nothing sprang to mind. Maybe Ď2m please! Weíre all in this together?í

messageRe: Stay your distance (including in Dulwich park)
Posted by seenbeen March 27, 08:55AM

I am now heartily sick of the builders next door- as I said before 3 of them are coming in SEPARATELY on public transport as they arrive at different times and wait outside.
Two of them were next to each other waiting for the keyholder for 30 minutes this morning- I have pics. Yesterday 2 others they transferred about 20+ lengths of wood and instead of one being at one end and one at the other one was grabbing it next to the other person- about 6" from his face- I have pics of this also. 2 of them went into the shop together and one of them came out saying she told me to go out- 'too many people' he dismissed it with a wave of his hand.
This morning 2 of them were shovelling sand into a wheelbarrow in the front garden - they were no more than a metre apart.
The deaths have shot up again

messageRe: Stay your distance (including in Dulwich park)
Posted by Sue March 27, 09:38AM

I think there will be a huge peak in deaths when the effects of all those people cramming onto beaches and parks are felt, plus of all the people who thought it was a great idea to go to pubs on the last evening before they had to close.

Quite why the government initially thought "guidance" would work is a mystery to me.

Though irritating (I'm very annoyed by it too) I'm not sure that one or two people getting a bit too close to each other at work will make a huge difference in the great scheme of things.

But partly I think this is a result of an extremely poor public health campaign by the government. There has still been nothing delivered house to house spelling out exactly what people have to do (and why) to keep themselves and others safe.

Not everybody watches TV/listens to the radio/uses social media (and in the case of the latter, there is a lot of fake news going about, anyway)

messageRe: Stay your distance (including in Dulwich park)
Posted by BellaLouise89 March 27, 09:57AM

I am probably preaching to the converted here, but it would be very distressing for those who do not have a garden space to lose access to the park, like myself (I have a dog otherwise I would not be using the park at all). However, having been there and seeing people playing football, and chilling out in the sun. I can't help but think how selfish it is especially in light of the people using the space responsibly.

Also, and again I feel like I am in a place of reason here, but I have had to try and avoid people walking 2/3 abreast on the pavements. Not only is this completely against the advice given but is putting others at risk (either having to step onto the road, or having to be much much closer than 2 metres distance.

Above everything I am disappointed in my community's flagrant disregard for the health of their neighbours sad smiley

messageRe: Stay your distance (including in Dulwich park)
Posted by KidKruger March 27, 10:38AM

Bella, I've found that the 3-abreast scenario is generally resolved by loudly and repeatedly coughing (covering your mouth of course !) as said group nears - if you're in any doubt as to how you're gonna get the 2m distance.

messageRe: Stay your distance (including in Dulwich park)attachment
Posted by seenbeen March 27, 10:45AM

Sue said
"Though irritating (I'm very annoyed by it too) I'm not sure that one or two people getting a bit too close to each other at work will make a huge difference in the great scheme of things."

That's what they all think...that's why they do it- if they have been on public transport what if just ONE of them has a vulnerable adult or child at home....here's a pic- they are sharing food. The one in yellow is the guvnor.....
one them travels on public transport- I have spoken to them and they laugh in my face. The postwoman stopped to tell them as well...I have a pic of that too

Attachments: SDC13186.JPG (470.5KB)  
messageRe: Stay your distance (including in Dulwich park)
Posted by Applespider March 27, 10:56AM

Sue Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> But partly I think this is a result of an
> extremely poor public health campaign by the
> government. There has still been nothing delivered
> house to house spelling out exactly what people
> have to do (and why) to keep themselves and others
> safe.
>
> Not everybody watches TV/listens to the radio/uses
> social media (and in the case of the latter, there
> is a lot of fake news going about, anyway)

The text message that went out to 88m mobile phones was probably quicker and safer than a leaflet drop.
95% of adults own a mobile which feels like a pretty robust comms strategy. If they'd had leaflets printed it would probably be out of date by the time they got delivered.

I'd be astonished if there's anyone in the UK (unless seriously ill, very young or a true hermit who always practice self-isolation) who isn't aware that they should be staying at home. But there will sadly always be a few who think they are either special cases or breaking the odd rule won't matter because they're always healthy who I suspect would ignore it until you actually locked them up.

messageRe: Stay your distance (including in Dulwich park)
Posted by Sue March 27, 08:01PM

Applespider Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


>
> The text message that went out to 88m mobile
> phones was probably quicker and safer than a
> leaflet drop.
> 95% of adults own a mobile which feels like a
> pretty robust comms strategy. If they'd had
> leaflets printed it would probably be out of date
> by the time they got delivered.
>

That's true, I'd forgotten about the text message. And I take the point about things being out of date, and also texting being safer (though the posties are out anyway delivering other things).

Though they didn't send anything out by text until telling people they MUST stay at home. They didn't send a text during the time they were ADVISING people not to go to pubs, etc..

messageRe: Stay your distance (including in Dulwich park)
Posted by mako April 02, 09:48PM

Basically anyone who has a garden should only be allowed out to buy essentials or work. Cycling should only be to work or buy essentials. WTf is wrong with everybody? Unnecessary 'need' to ride the streets in lycra will literally kill people. Otherwise clear pavements so people who have to use them can do with as few interactions as possible.

messageRe: Stay your distance (including in Dulwich park)
Posted by hellosailor April 02, 10:03PM

Itís pretty farking simple. Keep a 2 metre distance. You might not be overly worried about yourself or your immediate young and healthy household / family but as you jog past someone, panting, with a 30cm gap, consider that although you reckon that youíre going to come out the other side of this fine, that person may have cancer, or respiratory disease, or live with someone who does. Thereís no debate here. Keep a 2 metre distance, that means you might have to stop jogging - gasp - for 30 secs to maintain a 2 metre distance. Your need to jog interrupted is highly, highly unimportant in the current circumstances. If you canít reconcile this, or feel your civil rights are being violated, stay on your sofa.

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