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messageKeeping ED safe - masks in shops (staff and shoppers)
Posted by sunshine_sunshine July 06, 05:08PM

Hello,

Looking for support to petition the remaining local shop owners/staff to all wear masks. We want to support these businesses and having staff wear masks would be a major service to our little community and ensuring we are less likely to spread the virus (imagine how many local people come into contact with certain shop worker on any given Saturday?! All it takes is one infectious person...) This is not to suggest that only shop workers should be wearing them in enclosed spaces - shoppers should too!

Although the government has not given explicit instruction to do so in shops, the requirement on public transport speaks volumes. Additionally the evidence from the USA and the recent resurgence in cases all point to the fact that wearing masks protect others (and yourself to some extent). And if customers see shop owners wearing them then perhaps more people might be inclined to do the same. The risk goes down to 1.5% if both parties wear a mask. Lets make a push and keep each other safe! Grateful to the shops who are already requiring this of their staff. Any ideas on how we might get other shop owners on board would be welcome. Perhaps our local councillors want to get involved?



Edited 16 time(s). Last edit was july 13, 10:11am by sunshine_sunshine.

messageRe: Keeping ED safe - masks in shops (especially staff)
Posted by Nigello July 06, 08:41PM

Asking anyone to wear a mask all day is requesting a lot. Iíd be happy with visors or plastic screens at the till and/or counter. Petitions can be officious so why not approach the businesses yourself, explaining you want to support them and think this suggestion would help staff and customers? It would be more human and less likely to make business owners feel as if people are piling on.

messageRe: Keeping ED safe - masks in shops (especially staff)
Posted by KrackersMaracas July 07, 12:47PM

Iíd be more willing to get behind a petition which requires shoppers to wear masks to protect shop assistants. You donít wear a mask to protect yourself- you wear it to protect others from you.

messageRe: Keeping ED safe - masks in shops (especially staff)
Posted by edcam July 07, 05:28PM

I agree. Ideally everyone would wear them in public but a huge number of people aren't wearing them on public transport, which is supposed to be compulsory, so good luck with trying to extend it.

KrackersMaracas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Iíd be more willing to get behind a petition which
> requires shoppers to wear masks to protect shop
> assistants. You donít wear a mask to protect
> yourself- you wear it to protect others from you.

messageRe: Keeping ED safe - masks in shops (especially staff)
Posted by NewWave July 07, 08:14PM

edcam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree. Ideally everyone would wear them in
> public but a huge number of people aren't wearing
> them on public transport, which is supposed to be
> compulsory, so good luck with trying to extend
> it.
>
> KrackersMaracas Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Iíd be more willing to get behind a petition
> which
> > requires shoppers to wear masks to protect shop
> > assistants. You donít wear a mask to protect
> > yourself- you wear it to protect others from
> you.

Being a shop assistant I totally agree that shoppers should wear masks-I wear a mask at work through choice mainly to protect me from the shoppers who tend to be much more oblivious to personal space and the 2m rule than my colleagues and myself.
I use the tube and overground daily and I find it shocking how many people dont wear masks and just get let through the barriers at the station walking past the staff whilst not wearing a mask and not being cautioned in any way.
ditto people that get on the train and then remove their masks or wear them with thier nose uncovered.
I find it actually upsetting that the ignorance of a few could ultimately lead to someone becoming seriously ill or dying.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was july 07, 08:15pm by NewWave.

messageRe: Keeping ED safe - masks in shops (especially staff)
Posted by tiddles July 07, 08:47PM

There seems to be a bizarre anti mask movement based on the belief it is all part of scaremongering And Ďit does not protect you. I find it hard to fathom this mindset - do they think that all those people dying is a fabrication? Also it is a matter of protecting others (should you be a carrier) mind boggling in their obstinence.

messageRe: Keeping ED safe - masks in shops (especially staff)
Posted by JohnL July 08, 10:07AM

I've been led to believe that masks generally protect others (if you happened to be infectious) not yourself so to work everyone should be wearing one.

I saw a few on the train not wearing masks - unfortunately those that don't are likely to be those that have put themselves at higher risk IMHO.

messageRe: Keeping ED safe - masks in shops (especially staff)
Posted by seenbeen July 08, 03:33PM

where do you get them from in quantity -without being fleeced?

messageRe: Keeping ED safe - masks in shops (especially staff)
Posted by sunshine_sunshine July 08, 03:35PM

JohnL and riddles, exactly! Just in case its unclear (since the government has failed miserably in articulating this message) MASKS PROTECT OTHERS FROM YOU! So if you wear a mask in a shop, you are showing other people around you respect for their safety and doing a huge public service by not inadvertently spreading the virus. It goes both ways, shoppers should wear them for the workers, and workers should wear them for the shoppers.

I am 100% behind a petition to get EVERYONE to wear masks where social distancing is not possible but this is not a new idea. This has already been raised but seems to have lost steam, aside from the requirement on public transport: [petition.parliament.uk]

The reason I feel it would be beneficial to get local shop owners/workers on board is that I believe some people will be more inclined to wear a mask in shops if they see this as the norm with local shop workers. I wear a mask in shops to protect these people, and I started wearing one early on because I saw shop workers wearing them. I think the more we see it as the norm, the more people will continue to take it seriously. Added to this, I have stopped shopping at one ED business because I felt extremely uncomfortable with the staff of 6 or 7 cuddling up shoulder to shoulder for a team photo op (within view of shoppers waiting outside) just before opening for a busy line of shoppers...the same establishment has half the staff wearing masks and the other half does not, hence should one unmasked worker become sick they may inadvertently infect a whole load of staff and shoppers.

I don't think its a difficult decision, look at the rest of the world they are requiring masks for good reason, to keep each other safe!

messageRe: Keeping ED safe - masks in shops (especially staff)
Posted by sunshine_sunshine July 08, 03:39PM

seenbeen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> where do you get them from in quantity -without
> being fleeced?

I would recommend buying a washable/reusable one online, there are loads on amazon. The US Centre for Disease Control has a really useful page, unfortunately I think our .gov website page is lacking in critical detail but here is the link as well:

[www.cdc.gov]

[www.gov.uk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was july 08, 03:40pm by sunshine_sunshine.

messageRe: Keeping ED safe - masks in shops (especially staff)
Posted by seenbeen July 08, 03:45PM

The CDC one doesn't give measurements. I need several and will not be able to wash them until the end of the day so I would really need disposables for 2 people for 4 days. Any suggestions?

messageRe: Keeping ED safe - masks in shops (especially staff)
Posted by sunshine_sunshine July 08, 03:55PM

seenbeen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The CDC one doesn't give measurements. I need
> several and will not be able to wash them until
> the end of the day so I would really need
> disposables for 2 people for 4 days. Any
> suggestions?

I haven't bought disposables myself but I will let you know if I come across a good source. Personally I put the mask on before I walk into the first shop and don't take it off until I leave the last shop. If you are going out for the day the cheaper option might be to buy a few washable ones, and when you take them off put them in a baggy and then have another clean one ready for next trip/outing. Not ideal I know but thats all I can suggest for the moment.

messageRe: Keeping ED safe - masks in shops (staff and shoppers)
Posted by seenbeen July 08, 04:16PM

Thank you

messageRe: Keeping ED safe - masks in shops (especially staff)
Posted by NewWave July 08, 07:47PM

seenbeen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The CDC one doesn't give measurements. I need
> several and will not be able to wash them until
> the end of the day so I would really need
> disposables for 2 people for 4 days. Any
> suggestions?


I get them on Amazon-disposable ones and I have a few I can wash too but I like having a supply of disposable masks in my bag

messageRe: Keeping ED safe - masks in shops (especially staff)
Posted by NewWave July 08, 08:01PM

sunshine_sunshine Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JohnL and riddles, exactly! Just in case its
> unclear (since the government has failed miserably
> in articulating this message) MASKS PROTECT OTHERS
> FROM YOU! So if you wear a mask in a shop, you are
> showing other people around you respect for their
> safety and doing a huge public service by not
> inadvertently spreading the virus. It goes both
> ways, shoppers should wear them for the workers,
> and workers should wear them for the shoppers.
>
> I am 100% behind a petition to get EVERYONE to
> wear masks where social distancing is not possible
> but this is not a new idea. This has already been
> raised but seems to have lost steam, aside from
> the requirement on public transport:
> [petition.parliament.uk]
>
> The reason I feel it would be beneficial to get
> local shop owners/workers on board is that I
> believe some people will be more inclined to wear
> a mask in shops if they see this as the norm with
> local shop workers. I wear a mask in shops to
> protect these people, and I started wearing one
> early on because I saw shop workers wearing them.
> I think the more we see it as the norm, the more
> people will continue to take it seriously. Added
> to this, I have stopped shopping at one ED
> business because I felt extremely uncomfortable
> with the staff of 6 or 7 cuddling up shoulder to
> shoulder for a team photo op (within view of
> shoppers waiting outside) just before opening for
> a busy line of shoppers...the same establishment
> has half the staff wearing masks and the other
> half does not, hence should one unmasked worker
> become sick they may inadvertently infect a whole
> load of staff and shoppers.
>
> I don't think its a difficult decision, look at
> the rest of the world they are requiring masks for
> good reason, to keep each other safe!

I've signed the petition but I feel its a hopeless case-Mask wearing is mandatory on public transport but there are not enough BTP to police this.
Likewise as we all know GOVT cuts have seen a fall in the old 'bobby's on the beat' community support officers etc.
Private security working for shops and stores won't want to put themselves in danger by confronting those not wearing masks (and likewise if my husband or family member worked as a security guard I would be very unhappy at their employer expecting them to confront non-mask wearers)
I am a 60 year old woman of slight build I look my age but when I told a man on the underground to put his mask back over his nose and mouth after he got on train sat opposite me and immediately dropped it to below his chin he became extremely abusive, and flatly refused calling me a 'crazy f-ing bitch' and glaring at me with fists clenched ...I moved carriages at the next stop because I didn't feel safe-nobody defended me, nobody backed me up-and the man in question was a suit wearing estate agent type not some angsty youth.

messageRe: Keeping ED safe - masks in shops (staff and shoppers)
Posted by AylwardS July 10, 10:28AM

A friend posted this on Facebook. Says it all.

"When I wear a mask in public and in the stores, I want you to know that...
🔵 I'm educated enough to know that I could be asymptomatic and still give you the virus.
🔵 No, I don't "live in fear" of the virus; I just want to be part of the solution, not the problem.
🔵 I don't feel like the "government controls me". I feel like I'm an adult contributing to security in our society and I want to teach others the same.
🔵 If we could all live with the consideration of others in mind, the whole world would be a much better place.
🔵 Wearing a mask doesn't make me weak, scared, stupid or even "controlled". Makes me caring.
🔵 When you think about your appearance, discomfort, or other people's opinion of you, imagine a loved one - a child, father, mother, grandparent, aunt, uncle or even a stranger - placed on a ventilator, alone without you or any family member who is allowed at his bedside.
🔵 Ask yourself if you could have helped them a little while wearing a mask.
Copied and posted. Who's going to do the same?"

messageRe: Keeping ED safe - masks in shops (staff and shoppers)
Posted by dontbesilly July 10, 10:55AM

What makes you think you are above the government guidelines, and you can tell others what to do? It remains peoples choice whether they wear masks or not, with the exception of public transport.

I never wear a mask, as i cant really be bothered to have this thing on my face. I am young and fit anyway so i have no fear of the virus. Anyone who does would do well to avoid catching it by NOT going to shops on 'the lane' and keeping yourself safer like common sense would dictate.

messageRe: Keeping ED safe - masks in shops (staff and shoppers)
Posted by Peckhampam July 10, 11:08AM

Sadly, don't be silly is very silly

messageRe: Keeping ED safe - masks in shops (staff and shoppers)
Posted by Siduhe July 10, 11:28AM

2/10 - dontbesilly "must try harder"...

messageRe: Keeping ED safe - masks in shops (staff and shoppers)
Posted by Pugwash July 10, 01:21PM

I wear a mask on public transport but not generally in shops or on the street. If I was in a very limited environment where social distancing was a 'bit iffy' I would wear a mask. Have found that masks worn over a period of time make my glasses steam up. Purchased a box of disposable masks from Boots.

messageRe: Keeping ED safe - masks in shops (staff and shoppers)
Posted by dontbesilly July 10, 02:02PM

Siduhe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 2/10 - dontbesilly "must try harder"...


This is a very typical sniffy response from this forum- if someone disagrees and goes against the general popular middle class consensus they are labelled a troll and get comments like that.

Do you know how boring this forum would be if you all agreed with each other about everything? It would peter out rather quickly.

Perhaps you ought to actually address my points than give such a lazy, tiresome response.

messageRe: Keeping ED safe - masks in shops (staff and shoppers)
Posted by ianr July 10, 03:00PM

> What makes you think you are
> above the government guidelines,
> and you can tell others what to do?

But I am left not clearly understanding, and wondering, what specifically led you to write that sentence.

messageRe: Keeping ED safe - masks in shops (staff and shoppers)
Posted by JohnL July 10, 03:25PM

I'm not so sure it's good that younger people feeling immune to this virus which is beginning to show strange long term effects on some people. We don't know what long term effects it has nor on how many people.

[www.post-covid.org.uk]

or maybe I'm just being a moaning oldster smiling smiley

messageRe: Keeping ED safe - masks in shops (staff and shoppers)
Posted by Peckhampam July 10, 03:45PM

Dontbesilly
I was commenting on your ignorance and your callousness. " I never wear a mask, as i cant really be bothered to have this thing on my face. I am young and fit anyway so i have no fear of the virus. " A mask doesn't protect you, but other people, but as you make clear, you couldn't care less about other people.

messageRe: Keeping ED safe - masks in shops (staff and shoppers)
Posted by Siduhe July 10, 05:13PM

Quote:
dontbesilly
This is a very typical sniffy response from this forum- if someone disagrees and goes against the general popular middle class consensus they are labelled a troll and get comments like that.
Do you know how boring this forum would be if you all agreed with each other about everything? It would peter out rather quickly.

Perhaps you ought to actually address my points than give such a lazy, tiresome response.

Well it seems I must apologise. I had assumed that such a childishly worded post, which seemed specifically designed to draw a stream of strong responses from a forum like this (young person [check], invincible [check], won't wear a mask [check], don't care about others [check]) must be a lame attempt at trolling. And if it had been, I would still say you need to get a lot better at it - subtlety is the key to successful trolling.

If it was seriously meant, that's a very different story. I've had coronavirus, not badly but it was still the worst illness I've had in ages. Even if I hadn't, I have enough respect for myself and the people I live with and in and around to want to do the bare minimum I can to protect them. Nothing I can say will change your mind - you're obviously smart enough to understand the impact you could have on others but choose not to give a shit about it. The last thing I'm going to do is engage with someone with so little regard for others and the area they live in and give them the attention they so clearly crave.

P.S. Hope that was "middle class" enough for you.

messageRe: Keeping ED safe - masks in shops (staff and shoppers)
Posted by edcam July 10, 05:44PM

It's clear that dontbesilly is a troll. Best ignored.

messageRe: Keeping ED safe - masks in shops (staff and shoppers)
Posted by AylwardS July 10, 06:12PM

I thought thereíd be some kind of negative reply but some of those reading might see the sense in what was said so I could take that.

Donítbesilly

The intention wasnít to tell people what to do , though Iím not convinced the government guidance is always right - as you say everyone makes their own choice.

I do think the points made are worth sharing. The view on the wearing of masks has changed over the months but itís now widely accepted they reduce the transmission of the virus and you could have it and feel fine so you are not wearing it for you. I wouldnít want to pass it on unknowingly. Thatís why I put it on here.

Thanks for your response, probably got this a few more views.

I hope not to hear of anyone else who had it but just because you donít and donít expect to be badly affected should you get it doesnít mean itís wrong to wear a mask to protect others.

Your initial response says to me you are looking at this from your point of view not how what you do could impact others but in another response you did ask that your points be addressed not just written off as they didnít agree.


ď I never wear a mask, as i cant really be bothered to have this thing on my face. ď
Totally agree masks arenít comfortable and my glasses steaming up is only going to be more of a problem as the weather gets colder. Everyone can make their own choice, except where the law says they must be used. Balance how you feel when wearing a mask against the benefits - itís in all our interests to reduce the spread.

ďI am young and fit anyway so i have no fear of the virus.Ē
I hope that lack of fear means you donít catch it but itís not just those who are old and unfit that can be badly affected. I know of someone who caught it, spent weeks on a ventilator, weeks in hospital after leaving intensive care and is due home on Monday. Still some way to go in his recovery but he was the one in the family they were least worried would catch it. Iím sure if you are the young, fit person who catches it and ends up in hospital it wonít matter to you and your family that most young people donít get it bad.

ďAnyone who does would do well to avoid catching it by NOT going to shops on 'the lane' and keeping yourself safer like common sense would dictate.Ē
Plenty are, but itís not fully in anyoneís control just as you can be involved in a road accident when youíve followed all the rules but the other driver didnít.

I donít expect anyone to respond to this to say this has made them think but if it makes one person think Iíll be happy.

messageRe: Keeping ED safe - masks in shops (staff and shoppers)
Posted by NewWave July 10, 08:59PM

dontbesilly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What makes you think you are above the government
> guidelines, and you can tell others what to do? It
> remains peoples choice whether they wear masks or
> not, with the exception of public transport.
>
> I never wear a mask, as i cant really be bothered
> to have this thing on my face. I am young and fit
> anyway so i have no fear of the virus. Anyone who
> does would do well to avoid catching it by NOT
> going to shops on 'the lane' and keeping yourself
> safer like common sense would dictate.

YOU may be young and fit and YOU may not be at risk of dying or becoming seriously ill.
but how would YOU feel if as an asymptomatic carrier of the virus you passed it on to a single mother with underlying health issues and she died?
how would YOU feel if someone fit and healthy and young like you carrying the virus whilst not wearing a mask passed it on to your grand parents or parents and one of them died or they passed it to your also young friend who due to his obesity ended up with organ failure in ICU?
Its people with your attitude that are helping to spread this potentially killer disease.
Dont be selfish-you could save lives.

messageRe: Keeping ED safe - masks in shops (staff and shoppers)
Posted by seenbeen July 11, 03:01PM

I raided my charity bag and made some from t-shirts using this video
[www.youtube.com]

but I also got a pack of single use ones in Sainsbury's for £8 for 10 which will help.

It then occurred to me that if masks are mandatory then people on benefits will need a supply and £8 is a lot of money if you are on benefits and have mouths to feed.(and if they are deemed mandatory the vultures will then buy up all the stock unless they are rationed)

messageRe: Keeping ED safe - masks in shops (staff and shoppers)
Posted by monkeyspanner July 13, 11:30AM

who fed the troll?

Boots have good value disposables.

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