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messageRe: Pellatt Road Mural
Posted by RadLuke January 11, 12:57AM

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was january 11, 01:00am by RadLuke.

messageRe: Pellatt Road Mural
Posted by Abe_froeman January 11, 01:24PM

Chthonic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know this is an old thread, but does it not
> bother anyone that this mural was done by the
> antisemitic Mear One?
> [www.theguardian.com]
> /28/antisemitism-open-your-eyes-jeremy-corbyn-labo
> ur
> The man responsible for the Hanbury Street mural
> that was eventually painted over. It does me,
> every time I go past it.


Gosh, I never knew that but now when you look at the two, there is a lady and child on the right hand side of the Hanbury Road mural that look almost the same as those in Pellat Road. There is also a very similar hand gesture in both murals.

messageRe: Pellatt Road Mural
Posted by Chthonic January 11, 02:35PM

Yep, well East Dulwich is Labour after all, so I suppose they don't really care about this particular type of racism.

messageRe: Pellatt Road Mural
Posted by alice January 11, 02:48PM

Minor stirring lumpy porridge

messageRe: Pellatt Road Mural
Posted by Sue January 11, 02:52PM

Chthonic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yep, well East Dulwich is Labour after all, so I
> suppose they don't really care about this
> particular type of racism.


Care to expand on this supposition?

I see you have just joined the forum and both your posts so far are on this topic.

messageRe: Pellatt Road Mural
Posted by Chthonic January 11, 03:38PM

Yes...same signature too.
My posts so far have been on this topic as this is a thread about that topic.
And I'd say it's more than a supposition; do I need to provide my own evidence? Several party members have left recently over the issue, which of course they've been investigated for. I just thought the existence of a very prominent mural by a racist artist - who is also a very politically-motivated one, I'd say - doesn't seem a good thing, to me. [en.wikipedia.org]
I'm not partisan, and do not want to enter a discussion on the Labour (or any other) party.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was january 11, 03:40pm by Chthonic.

messageRe: Pellatt Road Mural
Posted by Sue January 11, 04:06PM

Chthonic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I'm not partisan, and do not want to enter a
> discussion on the Labour (or any other) party.


So why did you bring Labour into it at all then?

My understanding was that it was The Patch who had commissioned this mural, or else that it was done as part of the ongoing street art project in association with Dulwich Art Gallery, but if that's not the case, I'm sure somebody on the forum will know.

messageRe: Pellatt Road Mural
Posted by Lynne January 11, 04:15PM

I think it's horrible and would be glad if it went for any reason

messageRe: Pellatt Road Mural
Posted by Sue January 11, 04:17PM

I don't like it either.

messageRe: Pellatt Road Mural
Posted by Chthonic January 11, 04:20PM

I'm sorry I brought the Labour party into it, Sue



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was january 11, 04:22pm by Chthonic.

messageRe: Pellatt Road Mural
Posted by rahrahrah January 11, 04:20PM

There are lot's of great works of art (I'm not suggesting this is one), which have been produced by people of questionable character. There is nothing about the Pellat Mural that is itself racist.

It's an interesting question about whether a work of art should stand apart from the actions of the artist.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was january 11, 04:22pm by rahrahrah.

messageRe: Pellatt Road Mural
Posted by rahrahrah January 11, 04:23PM

For the record, I still like to listen to The Smiths even though Morrissey has some pretty awful opinions.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was january 11, 04:24pm by rahrahrah.

messageRe: Pellatt Road Mural
Posted by Sue January 11, 04:25PM

rahrahrah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> It's an interesting question about whether a work
> of art should stand apart from the actions of the
> artist.


Indeed.

Same with music, poetry, novels .....

messageRe: Pellatt Road Mural
Posted by Chthonic January 11, 04:29PM

I agree, and of course it IS a very thorny problem; in this case I think it's made far simpler, as the artist's views are expressed IN the work. He's a politically-motivated artist whose beliefs are expressed IN his murals.
From a Reddit thread: The Artist ("Mear One")
If that wasn't enough, "Mear One" (the artist) described the local controversy thus: "Some of the older white Jewish folk in the local community had an issue with me portraying their beloved #Rothschild or #Warburg etc as the demons they are." - thus specifically linking his mural to the conspiracy theory that the Rothschilds are part of a shadowy "New World Order" or "Illuminati".

Mear One also claims that the characters are "Jews and white anglos" and complains that "for some reason they are saying I am anti-semitic".

messageRe: Pellatt Road Mural
Posted by Chthonic January 11, 04:37PM

...still, I'm not saying it should go; just that it makes me squirm every time I see it (every day), knowing its associations. And that's some kudos to give an artist - such a huge, prominent mural. Just wanted people to be aware of its provenance.

messageRe: Pellatt Road Mural
Posted by precious star January 11, 08:23PM

I dont like the painting. I dont like the stars and i dont like the fist. All the others on lordship lane i like,



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit was january 11, 09:14pm by precious star.

messageRe: Pellatt Road Mural
Posted by Lynne January 11, 08:39PM

It makes me think that if there's going to be very prominent public art, we the community who have to look at it all the time, should have some say in the choice.

messageRe: Pellatt Road Mural
Posted by singalto January 11, 10:13PM

I dont like the painting. I love the other paintings, particularly the one of the queen and the pirates..

messageRe: Pellatt Road Mural
Posted by OhBoohoo January 11, 11:56PM

Made an account just to say that I love the mural.

messageRe: Pellatt Road Mural
Posted by Sue January 12, 10:52AM

Lynne Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It makes me think that if there's going to be very
> prominent public art, we the community who have to
> look at it all the time, should have some say in
> the choice.


But art, like music, is a very personal thing.

Some people will love a particular piece, others will hate it.

Plus how would you go about consulting everybody each time to make sure everybody was included?

Personally, I like most of the street art in this area, and some I like a lot, so I can live with this one (which I don't).

messageRe: Pellatt Road Mural
Posted by heartblock January 12, 11:44AM

I personally dont like it and didnt like the other mural being disscussed here. I dont think his murals are particularly my taste, I find them a bit crass. All the other street art in ED has made me smile, laugh or amazed me. I really miss the house which was covered with art that was demolished, but art is subjective.

As for bringing politics into whether art/music is acceptable is a whole can of worms and asks the question how far back in history one goes. Wagner, Ezra Pound, TS Elliot and yep....Morrissey. Maybe it would be a better use of peoples energy to be concerned about and fight against the worrying rise of the racist and anti Semitic far right across Europe.

messageRe: Pellatt Road Mural
Posted by Sue January 12, 12:04PM

heartblock Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> As for bringing politics into whether art/music is
> acceptable is a whole can of worms and asks the
> question how far back in history one goes. Wagner,
> Ezra Pound, TS Elliot and yep....Morrissey. Maybe
> it would be a better use of peoples energy to be
> concerned about and fight against the worrying
> rise of the racist and anti Semitic far right
> across Europe.


Agreed.

messageRe: Pellatt Road Mural
Posted by Chthonic January 12, 05:18PM

And how do you do that? Personally I don't think ignoring it when you find it on your own doorstep is a good start.

messageRe: Pellatt Road Mural
Posted by colville09 January 12, 05:50PM

It seems very simplistic and wrong to accuse the painter of being 'the antisemitic artist' and 'the racist artist' rather than the fact that once in the past someone interpreted a small part of one of his works as being open to misinterpretation. Actually I like this mural and can't think of any way this particular image could be said to be racist so I don't understand the 'ignoring it on your own doorstep' bit. I agree the rise of the far right here is the real concern.

messageRe: Pellatt Road Mural
Posted by rendelharris January 12, 06:23PM

colville09 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It seems very simplistic and wrong to accuse the
> painter of being 'the antisemitic artist' and 'the
> racist artist' rather than the fact that once in
> the past someone interpreted a small part of one
> of his works as being open to misinterpretation.
> Actually I like this mural and can't think of any
> way this particular image could be said to be
> racist so I don't understand the 'ignoring it on
> your own doorstep' bit. I agree the rise of the
> far right here is the real concern.

The whole of Mear One's "Freedom for Humanity" mural was staggeringly antisemitic - it wasn't a "small part of it" and it wasn't "open to misinterpretation", it was virulently and horribly antisemitic (and I speak as a pro-Palestinian, Israel back to pre-67 borders person) - even Jeremy Corbyn said after initially objecting to its removal: "I sincerely regret that I did not look more closely at the image I was commenting on, the contents of which are deeply disturbing and anti-Semitic." I don't see anything antisemitic in the ED mural, but to deny the antisemitism in the "Freedom for Humanity" mural - now that's "simplistic and wrong".

messageRe: Pellatt Road Mural
Posted by rendelharris January 12, 06:32PM

> heartblock Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------

>
> > As for bringing politics into whether art/music
> is
> > acceptable is a whole can of worms and asks the
> > question how far back in history one goes.
> Wagner,
> > Ezra Pound, TS Elliot and yep....Morrissey.
> Maybe
> > it would be a better use of peoples energy to
> be
> > concerned about and fight against the worrying
> > rise of the racist and anti Semitic far right
> > across Europe.

Indeed - and part of that would be opposing virulently antisemitic murals being allowed, no (The "Freedom of Humanity" one, not the ED one)? Art and literature are not separate from society and politics, they are intimately intertwined with it; giving an antisemitic work of art a free pass on the grounds that it's art is nonsensical. In terms of antisemitism in the art of the past (Wagner, Eliot - even George Orwell), well, we can interpret that in terms of the culture of the time and so forth and make our decisions. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be opposed every time it rears its foul head in our own time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was january 12, 06:34pm by rendelharris.

messageRe: Pellatt Road Mural
Posted by Chthonic January 12, 07:04PM

Thanks, rendelharris; my feelings exactly, just better expressed than I could. This is why I kind of shudder every time I see this mural.

messageRe: Pellatt Road Mural
Posted by Inkmaiden January 12, 07:39PM

heartblock Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> As for bringing politics into whether art/music is
> acceptable is a whole can of worms and asks the
> question how far back in history one goes. Wagner,
> Ezra Pound, TS Elliot and yep....Morrissey. Maybe
> it would be a better use of peoples energy to be
> concerned about and fight against the worrying
> rise of the racist and anti Semitic far right
> across Europe.

Holding someone to account for expressing blatantly antisemitic propaganda/conspiracy theories in public is not bringing politics into whether art/music is acceptable, it IS part of the the fight against the rise in antisemitism. It is such a cop out to cite the well, thats just how they thought back then, its art innit? argument, which does not apply in any way to Mear One, who is doing this now. Why should he be rewarded with the opportunity to profit in any way with further exposure of his art work?

From the Guardian yesterday : Britons make 170,000 antisemitic Google searches a year, many specifically referencing the Rothschild New World Order conspiracy theory. I dont understand how you can think the worrying rise in antisemitism and the far right is not connected to art such as Mear Ones Freedom of Humanity mural, when his antisemitism was legitimised by being emblazoned across a wall in a public place?

[www.theguardian.com]

messageRe: Pellatt Road Mural
Posted by alice January 12, 08:19PM

So 0.0006% of google searches look up words like Zionism.
How you draw your conclusions from that is not clear.

messageRe: Pellatt Road Mural
Posted by Chthonic January 12, 08:25PM

Agreed, inkmaiden. Though of course anti-semitism from the right is business as usual; now we're seeing it- and especially from the 'new world order' conspiracy angle, from the left too. And I think it's that that people are being squeamish about addressing.

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