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Which pubs, bars, restaurants and take-aways do you avoid?
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messageRe: New Shops in Dulwich / Peckham
Posted by monica 08 October, 2019 10:07

I am serious, I have insider info, my contact knows everything. We have too many chains now, however the council are granting change of use, left right and centre.
The council need money from every single avenue possible, they are not bothered about chains. We now how shops, that no longer have USPs, due to businesses opening up and piggy backing off existing businesses.
Please don't be surprised in 5 years time when Lordship Lane, becomes another faceless high street.

messageRe: New Shops in Dulwich / Peckham
Posted by Penguin68 08 October, 2019 10:28

Please don't be surprised in 5 years time when Lordship Lane, becomes another faceless high street.

This is, in fact, unlikely. Most of the LL shops have far too small a footprint to be commercially attractive to 'the High Street' shops. They need both frontage and storage areas. That has been our saving grace - we are great for small local independants, not attractive to chains. More likely is that increasing rates and rents drive everyone out - and we end up with closed shops or charity/ pop-ups. It is net profitability per square metre which is the driver in any retail operation. Drive up fixed costs and you drive down profitability, for any given turnover.

messageRe: New Shops in Dulwich / Peckham
Posted by monica 08 October, 2019 11:09

Penguin68 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Please don't be surprised in 5 years time when
> Lordship Lane, becomes another faceless high
> street.
>
> This is, in fact, unlikely. Most of the LL shops
> have far too small a footprint to be commercially
> attractive to 'the High Street' shops. They need
> both frontage and storage areas. That has been our
> saving grace - we are great for small local
> independants, not attractive to chains. More
> likely is that increasing rates and rents drive
> everyone out - and we end up with closed shops or
> charity/ pop-ups. It is net profitability per
> square metre which is the driver in any retail
> operation. Drive up fixed costs and you drive down
> profitability, for any given turnover.


Hi Penguin68
With all due respect about 25% of Lordship lane, are chains. Due to the rents being so high, chains are the only business who can afford the rent. The recent addition of the chain As Nature intended, pay £5000pcm in rent. This chain have stores in Balham, Chiswick, Ealing, Marble arch other expensive locations.
Chains like the mentioned store can afford the high rents, other small independent businesses, cannot.

messageRe: New Shops in Dulwich / Peckham
Posted by rahrahrah 08 October, 2019 11:23

Personally, I don't have a problem with chains per se. As long as they are not completely crowding out new start ups (which I don't think they are locally) and they have a good offer, then I don't see the problem. The issue of ever increasing rents does need to be addressed however. The real problem is the number of shops-to-flats conversions which took place in the past, which have reduced the supply of shop space. All those previous shops on North Cross / Upland Road would probably be quite attractive now and the increase in retail space may have helped keep rents down.

messageRe: New Shops in Dulwich / Peckham
Posted by imasnookercue 08 October, 2019 11:38

> recent addition of the chain As Nature intended,
> pay £5000pcm in rent. This chain have stores in
> Balham, Chiswick, Ealing, Marble arch other
> expensive locations.


£5k a month in rent, you sure? Theyll need to sell a lot of mung beans to make that one work out.

messageRe: New Shops in Dulwich / Peckham
Posted by Penguin68 08 October, 2019 11:44

With all due respect about 25% of Lordship lane, are chains

Almost all the largest retail properties are already chains, certainly, but largest here is a relative thing. Generally they either sell very high-value items (such as the estate agents we have) or have high-frequency sales (such as the chain coffee shops or bookies) or have comparatively small relatively high value items (i.e.pharmacies or jewelers). Chains tend to have minimum size outlets they want to take-up - most of our continuing independants fall below that minimum size - although the size criterion can be reduced for 'mini' outlets (where the item prices are often higher than in larger stores). Where we do have chains they tend to be of the smaller type (hand-fulls of stores) , rather than the national chains which inhabit traditional high streets. However, what we are also seeing is a significant change in retailers generally - my own view is that traditional high streets will continue to deplete 'traditional high street stores' rather than them spreading to LL. Small chains and specialist retailers may well be the store of the future, offering something that you can't (yet) get on-line.

messageRe: New Shops in Dulwich / Peckham
Posted by Pugwash 08 October, 2019 12:27

I visited Marks and Spencer's yesterday for the first time in a couple of months. I also wandered in to the new sweet shop and decided that I could not afford any of the goods on offer. However I did purchase a couple of items in Superdrug and also Farmers. My family and I try to support local eateries i.e. Johnnies, Dulwich cafι, Mr.Lu and a couple of the Indian restaurants. but the majority of the other eateries are places we would only go for very special occasions due to their costs. The last time I went into one of the pubs was meeting some old work colleagues a couple of years ago for a drink (none of us wanted to pay the prices quoted for meals).

I fully understand that high rents mean high priced goods as traders struggle to exist. A chain wanted to purchase the large St. Christopher's shop but since this was a high money making venue for the Hospice, they agreed to pay the increased rent- consequently the price of all their 'goods' had to be increased. If I remember correctly, the shop has to achieve £1,000 plus a day to meet rental costs and money towards the hospice.

I do not know what the answer is- more 'niche' shops with high prices? empty shops reflecting 'failed' businesses?
do we know who the landlords are for the majority of shops in LL?. Perhaps my previous rant about ED not being disabled friendly is putting off shoppers/residents who have the financial means to be able to support local businesses.

messageRe: New Shops in Dulwich / Peckham
Posted by DulwichBorn&Bred 08 October, 2019 13:10

I don’t mind Waitrose as I prefer it to Marks/Co-Op plus my grocery shop is Ocado/Waitrose so it suits my needs. I just think opposite Marks and the fact that the shop is quite small is a weird location for them to choose.
Well, I wished for a sushi place and Waitrose many years ago, I guess wishes do come true!

messageRe: New Shops in Dulwich / Peckham
Posted by fishbiscuits 08 October, 2019 13:28

Penguin68 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Most of the LL shops have far too small a footprint to be commercially
> attractive to 'the High Street' shops.

Strangely, one of the larger units on LL - East Dulwich Deli - was split up into two, after which a chain (Sweaty Betty) took half of it. So... I am not 100% convinced of this argument.

messageRe: New Shops in Dulwich / Peckham
Posted by Penguin68 08 October, 2019 14:43

Strangely, one of the larger units on LL - East Dulwich Deli - was split up into two, after which a chain (Sweaty Betty) took half of it. So... I am not 100% convinced of this argument.

This is certainly a chain, but it's hardly a 'High Street' chain. It describes itself as offering 'boutiques' (40-50 in the UK so hardly in every, or most, high streets) - and it is very much a specialist retailer. ED fits its target demographic quite well. As a 'boutique' its footprint requirement is more limited. If you were asked to list 'typical' High Street stores, I doubt whether it would ever make your, or anybody else's top 30.

This is the sort of shop which may well come to replace the traditional High St store, over time.

messageRe: New Shops in Dulwich / Peckham
Posted by monica 08 October, 2019 16:54

imasnookercue Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > recent addition of the chain As Nature
> intended,
> > pay £5000pcm in rent. This chain have stores in
> > Balham, Chiswick, Ealing, Marble arch other
> > expensive locations.
>
>
> £5k a month in rent, you sure? Theyll need to sell
> a lot of mung beans to make that one work out.

Hi imasnookercue
Yes we have a very reliable contact, who confirmed the monthly payments. ANI were so determined to open a shop on the lane, they were prepared to pay a premium rent.

messageRe: New Shops in Dulwich / Peckham
Posted by derwentgrove 08 October, 2019 17:08

The other William Hill (opposite ED station) is also now empty. The smaller unit next door (the other side of Vale End, also empty) is apparently going to be a funeral director - William Dunphy. I guess that counts as another change of use!

messageRe: New Shops in Dulwich / Peckham
Posted by imasnookercue 09 October, 2019 09:16

I noticed that the big old William Hill by ED station is empty, that seemed a far better place for a mini Waitrose.

The building looks like it used to be a pub. Does anyone know if thats the case, and if so, any knowledge of what it was like?

messageRe: New Shops in Dulwich / Peckham
Posted by Renata Hamvas 09 October, 2019 12:53

I thought it may be useful to people on this thread to post the planning classes as "change of use" is mentioned a few times on here. One type of shop changing into another type of shop doesn't constitute change of use in terms of planning and therefore doesn't require permission from the council.

3 Class A – shops (including some services)
3.1 Class A1 – shops and retail outlets
3.2 Class A2 – professional services
3.3 Class A3 – food and drink
3.4 Class A4 – drinking establishments
3.5 Class A5 – hot food and takeaway
4 Class B – further business and industrial activities
4.1 Class B1 – business
4.2 Class B2 - general industrial use
4.3 Class B8 – storage or distribution
5 Class C – hotels, hostels and dwelling houses
5.1 Class C1
5.2 Class C2
5.3 Class C3
5.4 Class C4-large HMOs
6 Class D – non-residential institutions
6.1 Class D1
6.2 Class D2
7 Sui generis (eg nightclubs)

Renata

messageRe: New Shops in Dulwich / Peckham
Posted by Penguin68 09 October, 2019 13:51

Thank you, Renata, that's really useful as an aide-memoire. Am I right in thinking that it is a move between the classes (A-D) which constitutes 'change of use' and not within any one class?

messageRe: New Shops in Dulwich / Peckham
Posted by 73jem 18 October, 2019 12:16

Simply Fresh opened in Dulwich Village today, very friendly staff and not at all grand, lots of co-op basics, just what is needed.

messageRe: New Shops in Dulwich / Peckham
Posted by yeknomyeknom 19 October, 2019 12:59

Does anyone know what the new premises on Forest Hill Road is going to be? It’s the old Barbers shop near French Cafe.

messageRe: New Shops in Dulwich / Peckham
Posted by Milan05 19 October, 2019 14:18

73jem Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Simply Fresh opened in Dulwich Village today, very
> friendly staff and not at all grand, lots of co-op
> basics, just what is needed.

And they let smallish dogs into the shop.

messageRe: New Shops in Dulwich / Peckham
Posted by pecksniff 22 October, 2019 18:36

derwentgrove Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The other William Hill (opposite ED station) is
> also now empty. The smaller unit next door (the
> other side of Vale End, also empty) is apparently
> going to be a funeral director - William Dunphy. I
> guess that counts as another change of use!


William Dunphy will also be opening a Florist in one of the old Grove Vale library premises.

messageRe: New Shops in Dulwich / Peckham
Posted by ed_pete 24 October, 2019 22:51

Jones of Brockley (gourmet food shop) opening on Grove Vale in the old Colour me happy paint shop next to Kwik Fit.

messageRe: New Shops in Dulwich / Peckham
Posted by ED Light January 25, 08:36AM

Any plans for the vacated pharmacy on lordship lane? It’s a big space with it all opened up.

The Sogim relocation over the road looks great - really hope it works out for that team.

messageRe: New Shops in Dulwich / Peckham
Posted by monica January 28, 01:39PM

Rent increase forced Sogim out, again Landlords rather have empty properties, then charge affordable rents.
Lordship Lane used to be 80% Independent stores, 20% chain, due to high rents, I fear the balance is now going to switch to more chains. Who can afford £50.000.00 per year rent, plus overheads???



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was january 28, 01:40pm by monica.

messageRe: New Shops in Dulwich / Peckham
Posted by Jakido January 30, 10:42PM

Both the Fried Chicken shop and The Bakery next to Meatliqour are showing no signs of life.

messageRe: New Shops in Dulwich / Peckham
Posted by NewWave January 30, 10:44PM

Jakido Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Both the Fried Chicken shop and The Bakery next to
> Meatliqour are showing no signs of life.


Lordship lane is dying before our eyes..greed has killed it
it'll soon be short lease phone shops and more souless chains

messageRe: New Shops in Dulwich / Peckham
Posted by Shivering swan1 January 31, 10:25AM

Kebab & Wine now shut too, sign in the window saying they are having a refurb, but then that's what 'Truly Scrumptious' said too...

messageRe: New Shops in Dulwich / Peckham
Posted by DulwichFox January 31, 11:51AM

Shivering swan1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kebab & Wine now shut too, sign in the window
> saying they are having a refurb, but then that's
> what 'Truly Scrumptious' said too...

Spoke to the Owners Son yesterday.

They are doing some repair works.. ?? cement concreting or something. ??

Closed for 4 - 5 days ???

Who Knows. ? I'm not to sure.. ?

messageRe: New Shops in Dulwich / Peckham
Posted by Spartacus January 31, 12:58PM

NewWave Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jakido Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Both the Fried Chicken shop and The Bakery next
> to
> > Meatliqour are showing no signs of life.
>
>
> Lordship lane is dying before our eyes..greed has
> killed it
> it'll soon be short lease phone shops and more
> souless chains


I expect to see more closures of our independents as they feel the squeeze of Southwark Council as they bring in plans to stop parking or cars coming to the area under the thin guise of healthy streets when it's obviously a financial driven decision by the council.

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