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messageRe: Aircraft noise -
Posted by mikeb 11 April, 2019 18:20

It's been a great week for noise. Although my kid did complain that the birdsong was waking him up - no pleasing some people!

messageRe: Aircraft noise -
Posted by toto 14 April, 2019 07:16

To a all the people who claim they don't make any noise difference whether planes fly above us or not, please have a listen today - when they don't - and realise how badly Heathrow is located.

messageRe: Aircraft noise -
Posted by mikeb 15 April, 2019 23:06

Still quiet in the mornings. I’m lovin’ it!

messageRe: Aircraft noise -
Posted by Asset 16 April, 2019 08:50

Yep, we have East winds forecast until Monday next week, quiet mornings until then.

messageRe: Aircraft noise -
Posted by Penguin68 16 April, 2019 08:58

To a all the people who claim they don't make any noise difference whether planes fly above us or not, please have a listen today - when they don't - and realise how badly Heathrow is located.

Or how badly you are located? Or did you move to your current address before the airport was built?

messageRe: Aircraft noise -
Posted by stephent 16 April, 2019 21:28

Penguin68 Wrote:
> To a all the people who claim they don't make any
> noise difference whether planes fly above us or
> not, please have a listen today - when they don't
> - and realise how badly Heathrow is located.
> Or how badly you are located? Or did you move to
> your current address before the airport was built?

When Heathrow opened it carried 63,000 passengers a year, and was (initially) built very intelligently to allow for takeoffs and landings in a wide range of directions. If that were still the case I don’t think many people would be complaining about the noise.
Aircraft technology changes, flight paths change, passenger numbers change; as such the number and location of impacted people change.

messageRe: Aircraft noise -
Posted by ThorNogson 18 April, 2019 19:58

It has been better this last week without Heathrow over us, but SE London gets no respite- if we don't get Heathrow arrivals we get London City, and in light easterly winds it is both.

April 9th to 18th, saw 10 consecutive days of every single London City aircraft flying under 2000 feet over Forest Hill/Dulwich/Herne Hill. In Nov 2018, Liam McKay, a director of this airport said . 'The key metric for us is noise complaints as a reflection of distress levels’.
So complain if you are bothered by this at all otherwise they think this is ok. Little airport, big noise.
Here is where you do it. [www.londoncityairport.com]

messageRe: Aircraft noise -
Posted by mikeb 25 April, 2019 10:28

Cheeky bonus today - westerlies yesterday afternoon but reverted to easterly overnight! honestly, I would much rather have the City landings every 5 minutes than Heathrow every 40 seconds.

I wonder if the westerly preference has anything to do with HM Queen's residence in Windsor? From personal experience, Windsor is completely intolerable when planes are landing overhead.

messageRe: Aircraft noise -
Posted by Applespider 25 April, 2019 16:29

Mikeb, I think it depends where you are in the area. Personally, the Heathrow flights are less intrusive than the city one so am becoming more and more keen on Westerlies!

messageRe: Aircraft noise -
Posted by mikeb 26 April, 2019 10:22

let's agree that we'd rather the flight paths for both airports didn't overfly millions of people at low altitude.

messageRe: Aircraft noise -
Posted by ThorNogson 13 May, 2019 19:47

Fine weather again, don’t forget to keep logging noise complaints with London City Airport. Here’s mine from today.
'Once again I find it necessary to complain about the low altitude aircraft flying today over Forest Hill to LCY. They fly under 2000 feet, which is too low, create persistent repeated noise at around 60 db and interrupt greatly the enjoyment of the outdoors. Inevitably this happens during the fine weather that accompanies east winds in this area. I am also dismayed to see that LCY has applied to the CAA to put back by nearly a year the CP1616 process. This appears to demonstrate the lack of any urgency or concern by the airport for overflown residents, despite three years of record complaints and detailed representations to the airport by residents including from the Forest Hill Society following the introduction of concentrated low altitude flight paths over SE London in 2016.'

London City are going through an Airspace Change process, a review of the flight paths they use. They have applied to the CAA put back the process ’ in order to deconflict the engagement process with previously planned airport activity’. I would think this means their expected expansion plans in the forthcoming Masterplan, which they are prioritising ahead of addressing noise relief and flight paths.

Meanwhile here is a way we can all help to quantity the aircraft noise in our or any area, using a new app developed in Holland. Download Explane on to your smartphone, then simply point the phone mic at a noisy aircraft. It logs the noisiest 10 seconds, identifies the plane and you can then submit the data to their central database. The crowdsourced data is then analysed, shared and can be used to provide evidence of the need for change. This is so new that no one is using it for London City planes yet. I started today. Could a few of us start to build an evidence base that we can use to create more pressure for change? Anyone else care to try it and report back?

messageRe: Aircraft noise -
Posted by Humdinger 14 May, 2019 09:23

How peculiar that one could live in a city such as London, with its multiple airports, and complain about aircraft noise.

Perhaps a move to a more rural area may be best, but then of course, you'd need to be careful not to move close to any churches, lest the bells which have rung for hundreds of years might interrupt ones beauty sleep.

I find the birds singing from 4:30 in the morning far more disruptive to sleep than planes going over, i do however have no intention of complaining to the council, and perhaps encouraging a cull.

messageRe: Aircraft noise -
Posted by mikeb 14 May, 2019 10:08

@Humdinger, thank you for taking the time to comment. It is true that some birds have the ability to sing at unbelievable volumes - see here:

but I think more commonly aeroplanes are typically louder. It is also true that aircraft flight paths are changing to increase the noise whereas sadly I think bird numbers are declining.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2019:05:14:10:08:48 by mikeb.

messageRe: Aircraft noise -
Posted by MrDude21 15 May, 2019 23:29

I really don’t think they care, they probably have websites for you to complain, a campaign, regular updates saying “continued problem” “looking into it” etc, even if they take it to parliament to debate.. they don’t care, it’s all for show to make public feel that things are in place for them because if they didn’t have these things in place it will be worse, this way they can control those who complain about aircraft noise by making you feel you are doing something, but the actual truth is they simply don’t care! London airports make millions in revenue yearly, pilots will not be able to monitor where they fly over, they need to circle London airspace for a number of reasons until they get the all clear for landing, a majority of the time planes fly over this part of London 3,500 - 4000ft low, as for LCY it’s understandable for them to fly lower as they are approaching the airport runway.

We live in London, we chose to carry on with our lives here/move here and we have the choice not be here. We live in one of the biggest cities in the world, where Heathrow is one of the worlds biggest hubs in terms of incoming/outgoing/connecting flights, this is our life, and unfortunately the truth is no matter how much you complain about it they simply don’t care, they get your feedback, they put up articles, campaigns are led by the public but I don’t think it will change at all, it’s all about money to them..

messageRe: Aircraft noise -
Posted by MrDude21 15 May, 2019 23:35

I also want to add I have noticed that many landings now take place from reading down to LHR rather than over London, but you must also remember that people on that side will also start complaining, no matter what there will never be a solution or peace for anyone, if it really does bother many of you then the only solution is to to move to somewhere where you won’t find any aircraft noise at low altitudes.

messageRe: Aircraft noise -
Posted by mikeb 30 May, 2019 22:32

Mr Dude, I know you are right: Heathrow would rather spend £20bn (and be remunerated for this) than think more imaginatively and long-term about what might actually work for this country i.e. an airport north west of London.

By the way, I have complained to CAA, NATS, Heathrow and City about the particular situations that result in both Heathrow and City planes overflying us. On Tuesday, this reached 90db and was so continuous that holding a conversation in the park was difficult. CAA has written back saying it's down to NATS. I will report back.

Finally, can anyone understand what this is about? [airspacechange.caa.co.uk]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2019:06:03:13:35:01 by mikeb.

messageRe: Aircraft noise -
Posted by ThorNogson 01 August, 2019 20:29

As the word spreads about what London City wants to do- their draft Masterplan aims for a huge increase in their low altitude concentrated flights over Forest Hill, Dulwich/Herne Hill, the fight back is being led by a new campaign from HACAN East which needs support from the overflown right now. ‘Back the Ban’, supports the retention of the existing 24 hour ban on flights between Saturday and Sunday lunchtimes. London City say they now want to fly in this period. What can you do?

1. Fill out a Back the Ban postcard and post it to London City at their Freepost address. Here it is. [hacan.org.uk]

2.Sign the Change petition to Newham Council, which is the body with approval over the airport’s planning applications and activities. Here it is. [chng.it]


messageRe: Aircraft noise -
Posted by ThorNogson 24 August, 2019 09:18

very pleased to see this intervention by Lewisham Council - writing to the CEO of London City Airport

messageRe: Aircraft noise -
Posted by hopskip 07 September, 2019 12:53

Using Explane app now - thanks for flagging.

I have also had the leaflets from Hacan East through the door and am returning to object to ban the intrusive weekend extensions of flights. Early mornings are now a significant nuisance.

messageRe: Aircraft noise - consultation closes 18-10-2019
Posted by gkb 06 October, 2019 09:48

Dear Fellow Campaigners

respond by 18 OCTOBER 2019 - 11.55pm - better still do it NOW
Quickest and Quick options suggested - 2 mins max

London City is consulting on expanding its airport and operations. Many of us now find ourselves under 2 flight paths: Heathrow and London City

Email response to: consultation@londoncityairport.com

by 11.55pm, Friday 18 October 2019

We encourage you to reply - there is a Quickest as well as a Quick Option - and some further points you might like to make

NB: Include your name, postal address, date and ask for an acknowledgement of receipt

Quickest Option: cut and paste the following
London City expansion fundamentally goes against the UK’s commitment to cut carbon emissions and improve air quality in the capital.

It’s going to make air pollution worse, increase carbon emissions and increase noise, and we object to any expansion, or any increase in hours of operation each day. I object to cancelling the current curfew on flights from midday Saturday to midday Sunday.

Quick Option: cut and paste the following or use your own words, adding your own comments if you wish
I support the 24 hour London City Airport weekend flight ban.
I object to up to 40,000 more flights.
I object to more early morning or late evening flights.
I object to larger planes - they make more noise
I object to more climate-damaging airport expansion.
I object to the plans in the draft master plan.
Plane noise must be made a statutory nuisance
Further points you can make:
challenge calculations suggesting there is a demand for 40,000 more flights
challenge the statement that planes will be ‘quieter’ now that it has been revealed by their own consultants that they will be noisier
challenge the statement that their planes will be ‘cleaner’ and produce ‘less CO2’
there is a lack of data in their consultation documents on noise impacts on health with a proposed increase in flights of up to 40,000 more a year
the introduction of concentrated flight paths has already led to serious levels of noise and the negative impact of that on health
enormous objection to aviation's part in climate change with more planes producing more CO2, plus pollution from cars on the surrounding roads and journeys to/from the airport
City and Heathrow executives must work together to raise their arrivals flight paths
demand a ban on overflight to and from more than one airport.Too many people suffer from both London City and Heathrow planes
demand an end flight path concentration and share flight paths more widely and fairly
demand that plane noise be made a statutory nuisance
Copy your response to your MP, Council's Environment Department and your Ward Councillors. They all need to know what their constituents and residents feel.

Share this note with all friends and neighbours

Further information
Stop City Airport: [stopcityairportmasterplan.tumblr.com]

Since Plane Hell Action is fundamentally about the impact of aviation activity (predominantly noise and emissions) on our quality of life we suggest you include in your responses the following statement made by umbrella body The Community Noise Group: Where there is a reduction in overall noise the benefit be distributed proportionately to those already most affected and where there is an increase in overall noise the disbenefit be distributed proportionately to those already least affected.' i.e it is fairer to share; 'no' to concentration.

Important date: Thursday 17 October 2019
Court of Appeal ruled that there were grounds for appeal for all four of the legal judicial reviews, challenging the Government's support for the expansion of Heathrow. These will take place at the Court of Appeal, from 17th October, for 6 days, and will be live-streamed. AirportWatch
8.45 - 10 am come and swell the crowd in support. Calling all young people to come and see justice in action. If you have a STOP 700 MORE t-shirt - wear it! Address: Royal Courts of Justice, Strand, Holborn, London WC2A 2LL

Plane Noise and Health Impacts
The British Medical Journal in June published this article. Will policy makers finally start to wake up to the implications of non-stop plane activity, sleep deprivation, children's learning abilities, impact on unborn babies?

Record airplanes and measure their Decibels to give a real picture of the noise nuisance experienced by those of us overflown. This gives residents, action groups, politicians and the press the data they need to convince politicians of the seriousness of this nuisance. The Explane app registers time, date, location, noise levels and flight number of the plane that causes the noise above your head. Download the free app

Check the level of pollution at locations that matter to you. Send the results to your Council's Environment department, your MP, your Ward Councillor, your local newspaper.

2 last clicks:
A. ask your MP to review the decision to expand Heathrow: Early Day Motion Scroll down the page to see who has signed and thank your MP if their name is on the list
B. Government Petition: There is a Climate Emergency, abolish planned Heathrow Expansion.

Members of Aviation Environment Federation & No 3rd Runway Coalition, as is Southwark Council
What you can do now
1. respond to the consultation
2. forward this message to Friends and Neighbours
3. sign the petition
4. join us outside the Royal Courts of Justice, Strand WC2A 2LL 8.45-10am,
Thursday 17 October 2019

You may not, yourself, be affected but you certainly know someone who is or may be.
Forward Forward

Living under a flight path in SE London
Copyright © 2019 Plane Hell Action, All rights reserved.
This email is being sent to all those who opted to receive updates via a petition, the website or a request by email. If you wish to opt out of future updates just use the link below.

Our mailing address is:
Plane Hell Action c/o Southwark Community, 1 Addington Square, Camberwell, London SE5 0HF

messageRe: Aircraft noise - consultation closes 18-10-2019
Posted by MoysieC 13 October, 2019 15:57

gkb, thanks very much for sharing the suggested bullet points - really helpful. I have just sent my response email.

messageRe: Aircraft noise -
Posted by imasnookercue 14 October, 2019 09:58

One plane went over my house before 5am this morning, is that permitted ?

messageRe: Aircraft noise -
Posted by mikeb 14 October, 2019 11:34

Heathrow had 30 flights scheduled to arrive before 6am this morning: [www.airport-london-heathrow.com]

10% of passengers are responsible for c. 50% of UK flights [www.theguardian.com]

30% of Heathrow passengers are transit [www.heathrow.com]

messageRe: Aircraft noise -
Posted by imasnookercue 14 October, 2019 14:31

Outrageous, ive got a good mind to ring up the manager of Heathrow Airport and give him a piece of my mind!

messageRe: Aircraft noise -
Posted by MoysieC 15 October, 2019 18:53

If you're interested in supporting the campaign against City and Heathrow expansion locally, there's a HACAN East faciliated meeting on Tues 22 October at Herne Hill Methodist Church (the Dulwich end of Half Moon Lane). Below is an extract from an email sent by John Stewart of HACAN East:

22nd October: Dulwich/Herne Hill – Herne Hill Methodist Church, 155 Half Moon Lane, SE 24 9TS, 7.30 -9pm (aimed at people in Dulwich and Herne Hill)

The purpose is to allow you to meet fellow supporters in your area to see if there is an appetite to be active locally in campaigning against London City expansion plans. A number of areas are also affected by Heathrow planes and we can consider them as well. I will facilitate the meetings.

messageRe: Aircraft noise -
Posted by mikeb April 15, 08:31AM

It’s a pretty awful situation but perhaps one small silver lining ...

messageRe: Aircraft noise -
Posted by KidKruger April 15, 02:25PM

Seems fairly quiet man, what's the big deal about planes, hardly see 'em.

messageRe: Aircraft noise -
Posted by siousxiesue April 15, 03:45PM

mikeb Wrote:
> It’s a pretty awful situation but perhaps one
> small silver lining ...

Is it wrong to be enjoying the peaceful skies winking smiley

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