Reducing knife crime

[Peckham Rye LPT]

Knife crime is a must on reduction to keep people safe across London. If you are aware of any shops that stock/sell knives to children , please contact me as soon as possible. Or ring crime stoppers on 0800 555 111 and this will filter down to us.

Regards,

PC 232 Colin Balman

Peckham Rye Neighbourhood Policing Team

Email - [email protected]

Tel - 020 8721 2443

[Villager]

The only way to stop it is more stop and search and heavy penalties (guaranteed jail) for anyone carrying a knife.

Shutting the knife shops doesn't work when you have Ebay and other uncontrolled vendors.

Tin hat now on so you can all let rip.

[DulwichFox]

There has to be Mandatory Custodial Sentencing lets call it MCS ..for those who carry kniives..

NO Exceptions..

No Excuses..

No Escape..

Social workers and judges are making the Police's work impossible. and NO government who ever they may be has addressed this problem seriously..

[NewWave]

There are quite strong sentences for those involved with knife crime. But do you think the local bobby would be posting here if there was enough police to do the job? The government cuts are taking effect.

Also we are reminded of the sad and continuing local violence.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I'm not sure that tougher and tougher sentences are the whole answer (although they may be part of it). I think there are definitely big issues around male identity, the macho cultures in which boys and young men are brought up and the violence that some children unfortunately experience at home from a young age. I've seen boys who are actively encouraged to appear 'tough', to challenge and always hold their ground and to generally be aggressive, by parents who think that this is what being a man is about. It can breed a climate of fear for teenage boys who are terrified of losing face, of being seen as weak. I dunno, just my observations, i could be way off the mark. It is incredibly sad when this stuff happens though.

[mynamehere]

About the local bobby posting here, it's about using media and crowd sourcing ideas and solutions, being modern in approaching how we do things and keeping the freedom in democracy by not imposing draconian laws. Police cannot solve the problem, family, neighbours and neighbourhoods have to step forward in a "balanced" way (disclaimer: IMHO)

[Earl Aelfheah]

I agree. I think it's positive that the local police are trying to reach out to the wider community.

[JohnL]

NewWave Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> There are quite strong sentences for those

> involved with knife crime. But do you think the

> local bobby would be posting here if there was

> enough police to do the job? The government cuts

> are taking effect.

>

> Also we are reminded of the sad and continuing

> local violence.

I'm pretty sure that in SE15/SE22 there is less than

10 years ago (despite recent events).

Or maybe again I just don't see it.

[uncleglen]

I have worked in secondary schools in SE London and there is drug dealing going on, many lads carry weapons- not necessarily knives but something that does the same job- because they think that every one else is carrying a weapon. I don't know about ALL schools obviously, but I know that at least two do not welcome involving the police in any law breaking because the heads think that the pupils view the school as a 'safe haven' that needs to be preserved, and they do not involve the police. A colleague's car was extremely badly vandalised on site and the culprits were seen and the head refused to involve the police...that was the extent of the head's stupidity at one school.

Some year 9 pupils were actually SEEN hiding drugs on school premises by support staff and a member of senior management was informed who told them to mind their own business- it was never reported.

IMHO the head teacher of the school did these pupils no favours by viewing the police as some kind of 'enemy'....strong links should be forged in order to actually create a safe haven for our children- not protect miscreants under the guise of being their friend.

[steveo]

Ebay has pretty strict rules on knife sales

[alice]

'have worked' is the key ... I too remember that sort of stuff but in recent years no.

[Penguin68]

There has to be Mandatory Custodial Sentencing lets call it MCS ..for those who carry kniives..

There are always real dangers in imposing absolute/ no discretion sentencing laws. Judge?s discretion takes into account mitigating (or exacerbating) circumstances, and allows for appeal by the defence or CPS against the sentence imposed. Where there is no discretion (and compelling mitigation) juries may be tempted to acquit as being a ?more just? outcome than a harsh, compulsory, sentence.

That is not to say that it would not be a good idea (a) to make all accusations of knife carrying a crown court (rather than magistrates court) offence (if they are not so already) ? nor (b) in extending the possible sentence that could be imposed, at the judge?s discretion.

The actions proposed here, to report local supply which appears reckless, makes sense. Although it is possible to acquire knives over the internet, it does require some access to on-line payment systems, normally not available to minors (under 18). Of course a big brother or friend might acquire knives for a juvenile in that way, but it is more cumbersome and therefore more difficult.

One issue that is more difficult to address is the carrying of knives (or other weapons) by those too young to prosecute (but on behalf of older people) to avoid these legal difficulties.

[rendelharris]

I agree Penguin - once when teaching a fourteen-year-old pupil of mine was found to have a knife in his bag; investigation proved that a Yardie gang had put the word out that they were going to have him mutilated in revenge for some reneging on a deal his older brother had done in Jamaica. Terrified when he heard this he'd grabbed a knife from his mum's cooking drawer - he was actually a good kid, the idea that he would get mandatory custody with DulwichFox's

NO Exceptions..

No Excuses..

No Escape..

is disturbing. Fortunately the police took a sensible view, gave him a slapped wrist and managed to catch the persons making the threats to boot. He went on to take a college degree, where he would have gone after a prison sentence who knows. A justice system which does not account for circumstances is no justice system at all - see USA and "three strikes," with people serving life sentences for stealing a slice of pizza.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I agree totally about sentencing, it has to take account of circumstances, but there should be the option of very serious penalties available to judges. I think the key change is bigger than just knifes though, it's about how we bring up boys.

[Reg Smeeton]

This doesn't belong in the Gossip section: can it go in the Lounge please.

[Villager]

mynamehere Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> About the local bobby posting here, it's about

> using media and crowd sourcing ideas and

> solutions, being modern in approaching how we do

> things and keeping the freedom in democracy by not

> imposing draconian laws.

>However horrible using

> knives as a weapon is only police cannot solve the

> problem, family, neighbours and neighbourhoods

> have to step forward in a "balanced" way

> (disclaimer: IMHO)

MNH,

That, is quite the most pathetic liberal tosh I have read in a long time. It is precisely that "tolerant" attitude by the gutless politicians and judiciary that has brought about this problem.

You are not a prospective LibDim politician are you?

The poor bobby must be truly frustrated by the ineffectiveness of the law. The police are having to work with one hand tied behind the back.

If knife crime was reduced then the police would be able to attend to other problems.

In the UK we have gun laws that make it illegal to carry pistols and automatic weapons - hence we don't have a gun crime problem like the USA.

It is now illegal to have a flick knife and so nowadays crimes with this type of weapon have been eliminated.

As the other posts have made clear, the only way is draconian sentences. I would also suggest that offenders forfeit their benefits for 5 years on release - unless they volunteer for 5 years military service. Compulsory service works in other countries and helps many to drop their drug dependency.

We just need to stop molly-coddling the ferals and treat the problem with resolve.

[tasha1]

This is such a difficult one. I've worked for many many years supervising violent individuals in the criminal justice system. I work with adults but a large percentage are 18-24 year olds caught up in violent crimes. I have to admit that this age group can be exceedingly difficult to engage, despite the fact I have teenagers of my own and would count myself fairly good at getting into teenage brains. I have yet to come across a single individual who is caught up in violent behaviour who has not experienced or witnessed violence during their childhood and the majority being brought up in local authority care. They have no idea what stability or love is and a lack of ability to really appreciate right from wrong or an ability to empathise. That said, there are thousands and thousands of other individuals with equally traumatic upbringings who don't go on to behave in this manner. It cannot be seen as a 'cause' as such, nor an excuse. What I'm always struck with though, is the lack of empathy and lack of appreciation for human life. It is seen as a 'norm'. You either kill or lame for self preservation. These same 'kids' though, won't enter certain post codes for fear of reprisals (Ie they value their own life but not others). There are already tough sentencing guidelines for those caught carrying knives. However, this isn't a deterrent whatsoever. These kids don't stop and think 'I'd better not take a knife/weapon because if I get stopped, I'll go to prison. This honestly does not enter their heads. A fair number, believe they are invincible. They don't think for a moment that they will get caught and the adrenaline rush of whatever is 'going down' overrides anything else. Fair enough, the kids I see have no choice to engage but they commonly really seem to have no regard for life. It's terribly terribly sad and incompressible. However, there are ways to work with these kids and various projects where they are given boundaries and feelings of self worth have enormous benefit. One issue is that they hang around with certain friends and even if they want to move to a different lifestyle, it's virtually impossible. I've seen these youngsters serve custodial sentences and achieve a lot in terms of addressing their behaviour, to be returned to the same neighbourhood. They don't stand much of a chance unless they are really strong and resiliant.

That said, one of my own children were friends with two boys who have recently lost their lives to knife crimes. Both kids were really lovely individuals and were no way caught up in violent behaviour themselves. They were murdered by kids because of a silly, pointless argument. It is unbelievably tragic and deeply upsetting. My 15 year old has experienced this within her friendship group.

My eldest son was also a victim, although thankfully, no weapons were used but he suffered significant injuries during a street robbery (he being the victim). Senseless violence as he willingly handed over his possessions. I discovered after that he starting carrying a penknife for 'protection'. I obviously put a stop to this and explained it could potentially be used against him and he would never use it in self defence. Most of these kids say they carry. Weapons for self defence.

Apologies for such a long post. In essence, I don't think that tougher sentences will not act as deterrent. I don't know what the answer is except a multiagency approach to try and reach these kids at a young age. It does make me terribly sad on many levels. P.ease don't think I'm taking a 'hug a hoodie' approach because I'm not. It's more that the issues are very complex and the answers are by no means straight forward.

[Loz]

Villager Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> As the other posts have made clear, the only way is draconian sentences. I would also suggest that

> offenders forfeit their benefits for 5 years on release - unless they volunteer for 5 years

> military service. Compulsory service works in other countries and helps many to drop their drug

> dependency.

>

> We just need to stop molly-coddling the ferals and treat the problem with resolve.

Is this satire?

Someone please tell me that this is satire.

[DulwichFox]

The Facts are that:-

a. Kids are carrying Knives..

b. Kids are using Knives

c. Kids are being Killed.

We have to take knives off of our streets and the people who carry them too...

We need clear laws.. where there can be no misinterpretation ..

Stop faffing around.. One strike and you are out... End of..

DulwichFox

[Alex K]

**sigh**

Fifty years ago every lad in my village carried a knife. We whittled. We competed in knife-throwing -- bet you can't hit that over there! **thwock** Maiming? A bit. I still have a dramatic scar at the base of my left index finger that reminds me of an apple with a core that gave way unexpectedly (ow!) Maiming OTHERS? Killing? No.

It's not the knives.

[rendelharris]

"It is now illegal to have a flick knife and so nowadays crimes with this type of weapon have been eliminated."

And so the murders and woundings are simply done with other knives - they still happen. It's illegal to carry any knife in public without good reason unless it's a folding blade (i.e. penknife) and with a blade less than three inches long. Has that stopped knife crime? No it hasn't. The rest of your post shows about as much knowledge and reason.

Anyone who describes other human beings as ferals needs to take a good look at themselves before pontificating about others.

[Sue]

tasha1, thank you for such an interesting post.

All very sad, as you say.

[tasha1]

Thank you Sue

[Jeremy]

Alex K - I can't agree with your comment.. by the same logic it should be OK to carry guns, for target practise and general larking around!!

This isn't a village, kids don't whittle sticks, or cheekily cut apples pilfered from the local orchard. There's no legitimate reason to carry a knife. They are being used as weapons, so that's how the law should treat them.

[Take Note]

Agree with Sue - good post tasha1. Really don't know what the answer is.