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The East Dulwich Forum
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messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by Mick Mac 16 May, 2018 11:57

I'm not a fan of Pizza Express anyway - urgh - defo I chain that I wouldn't think would enhance LL.

I don't think the Pizza Express in the Village is relevant, I think more that Franco Manca etc are better and nearby competition. We are short of a really good restaurant though, or something cool like Voodoo Ray. But ED isn't cool in the way Peckham is cool I guess.

I think we have enough retail - I rarely went to Londis. Surely everything it sells is also available nearby.

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by Jules-and-Boo 16 May, 2018 12:06

Voodoo Ray is my favourite. One on LL would save me a 15 minute walk

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by EDBoost 16 May, 2018 12:20

That was my first post madger and i had to chime in. Mainly because after many years of reading this forum from afar, i wanted to add my contribution to something close to my heart... pizza! Lol

I've lived in ED for more than 20 years and i love it, no where else i'd rather live, and the change/evolution of shops appearing and disappearing is something i've gotten used to. I rememeber when we had the 2 large grocers, Bicester toys, and a handful of ohter local business and not much else!

I don't think some people of this forum realise how difficult it is to run thier business full stop never mind the ones on a busy main road like LL. You can't have lots of Local business if you don't support them, and yes, the rates have gone up hugely but its also because not enough people go to them, so you can't be moaning about not having a diverse number of local shops if you don't support them (Londis for example!).

Chains aren't a bad thing, don't be a sheep and believe everything you read or hear in the media, but in saying that i agree that the local business are needed to bring character and balance to the area.

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by Louisa 16 May, 2018 12:24

Well Nandoís have now put in a planning application for signage and shop frontage change on Rye Lane, Peckham. From that I would conclude it is unlikely theyíll take on this site.

Louisa.

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by Jules-and-Boo 16 May, 2018 12:59

Perfect place for Nandos :-) They'll do roaringly well

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by madger 16 May, 2018 12:59

Apologies ED Boost, it just seemed very coincidental timing! I speak with such passion in favour of local businesses because Iíve lived here since 1999 and use, and love, the local businesses all the time. Iím puzzled by your perception that many people donít realise how hard it is to run a shop here. Thatís precisely the discussion weíre having! Thatís precisely why I wrote at length about the economic impact a City backed large chain has upon local businesses who struggle to pay their ever increasing rents. The landlords put up their rents when they see they may be able to attract chains with the sort of corporate expenditure impossible for smaller businesses to afford. So dedicated local traders do all the hard work to establish varied local shops and businesses, but are then undercut by huge investment entities trading as chains which then move into an area off the back of the local tradersí success and determination. And then the usual spiral, which I outlined in my previous post, ensues. Local business owners deserve more Council support and the whole rates system needs reforming as high street traders have been hit hard while internet vendors escape the increases. We all use internet shopping, but what about the elderly, the isolated, people who need and value local shops for easy to obtain services? Not to mention the local community forged between the traders and people who use their shops and restaurants. I agree absolutely that itís extremely hard to run a shop. Thatís why I think we have to be clear about the hard economic reality of a chainís business model, and its impact upon local services. Unless local people can afford to establish and run local businesses then retail is placed solely in the hands of gigantic investment companies who fund the major chains, or individuals with independent income who can afford to set up an independent shop paying inflated rents and rates. That in turn impacts on social mobility, and means families who have lived and traded in an area for decades can no longer afford to stay and trade and are pushed out, fracturing a deeply established community and leaving enterprise and business available solely to the rich. That is a pretty sad state of affairs.

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by EDBoost 16 May, 2018 14:09

Its ok Madger. Sorry if i'm not making myself clear. What i mean is that a lot of people, in the forum complain alot with the current shops/restaurants we have already and want other types of store/cusine here but they never support them on a regular or are never happy.

For example, lets say we had a local Mexican/South American restaurant take over, it'll be great for a while but after a couple of years later the novelty/hype will die down and it'll struggle.. I rememebr when we used to have a Mexican place right wher the italian place used to be (Olivelli i think) and that was almost always empty every week! No independant or family run place can survive for 2-3 years of business. Same with the Greek restaurant near ED Station that used to be a Thai place.

I personally thing it'll be great to have some sort of sporting goods shop like a JD sports, Sports Direct, Footlocker... thats something that i think would be longlasting, its a chain that would do well as many ED and surrounding locals would go to on a regular basis and its something we don't have. smiling smiley

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by Ghlpc 16 May, 2018 16:16

Jules-and-Boo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Perfect place for Nandos :-) They'll do roaringly
> well

Don't you think a Nandos would do well on Lordship Lane?

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by Louisa 16 May, 2018 16:28

Nandoís would have done well on LL around 10 years ago. More of a night life culture, younger crowd. Not so much now. Too family orientated, and Nandoís prefers the younger in/out crowd. Peckham is ideal for that, and with better rail links and a decent weekend nightlife culture, a restaurant will do marvellously down that way.

I sometimes think people like to think too highly of ED. The nappy valley element which has grown over the last decade has pretty much destroyed the younger/nightlife scene that was quite evident before. The main stretch is too far from the station and other than local families, these sorts of businesses would be struggling even at weekends. Peckham doesnít have that problem.

Louisa.

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by Penguin68 16 May, 2018 16:43

Recent social research suggests that 'young professionals' are far more likely to eat out than to cook in - certainly socially - this might mean that the old split between restaurants and food (cooking component) shops is no longer meeting needs - perhaps swapping a Londis for an eatery is just mapping on to consumer need in our changing demographic in LL. Don't say I like it personally (I am no longer a young professional, by many decades) - but then the changing ED demographic is leaving me behind. And a number of the new (and well-established) LL eateries are great. Swings and roundabouts...

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by redjam 16 May, 2018 18:34

Louisa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I sometimes think people like to think too highly
> of ED. The nappy valley element which has grown
> over the last decade has pretty much destroyed the
> younger/nightlife scene that was quite evident
> before. The main stretch is too far from the
> station and other than local families, these sorts
> of businesses would be struggling even at
> weekends. Peckham doesnít have that problem.
>
> Louisa.

Um, have you been out in Lordship Lane at night recently, Louisa? If you go out at the weekend most of the bars and restaurants seem to be doing pretty well from what I can see, judging by the numbers of people around.

I agree it's a shame if Londis turns into a chain eatery but I don't doubt it'd do well, even if it does turn out to be (yawn) a Pizza Express.

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by Abe_froeman 17 May, 2018 09:34

It's going to be Costa Coffee

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by Shaggy 17 May, 2018 12:48

I second Wimpey. Benders.

Jakido Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe a Wimpy would do well; balloons.

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by Louisa 17 May, 2018 13:09

Why donít we campaign for a third M&S.

Louisa.

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by Mick Mac 17 May, 2018 13:34

Louisa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> I sometimes think people like to think too highly
> of ED. The nappy valley element which has grown
> over the last decade has pretty much destroyed the
> younger/nightlife scene that was quite evident
> before. The main stretch is too far from the
> station and other than local families, these sorts
> of businesses would be struggling even at
> weekends. Peckham doesnít have that problem.
>


Yes - ED is defo a bit stale in terms of food and drink offerings compared to Peckham, which changes monthly it seems, but presumably has significantly lower rents

ED on the other hand has much better offerings in terms of produce for the stay at home dinner party types (Rose, Moxons, Franklins FS, Mons, all in the "Franklins Quarter") reflecting perhaps the age difference of the ED residents as compared to Peckham.

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by Ollie4sam 17 May, 2018 13:53

EDBoost, I went to that Greek restaurant near ED station, and there is a reason it closed down other than just business rates - the food was terrible! Calamari straight from the freezer (possibly Iceland).

I used to quite like the Mexican (Desperadoes I think it was called), but it was pretty tired by the end, and needed a refit which was obviously beyond their budget.

However, there are others that I think are sadly missed, although how much it has to do with rates I don't know: Springer's, Inside 72 (same vibe as Meat Liquor though), Chopsticks (before they started cutting costs on the ingredients). If there is going to be another restaurant I would prefer a good quality Chinese, as I can't find one in the area, and Thai Corner is not what it used to be (I know that's not Chinese, but it has similarities).

A decent sport shop as has been mentioned would be great - although not JD, SD or FL please! The InterSport in Herne Hill is a good model for what is needed, with some 'fashion' sports gear, but also a decent range of actual sports equipment.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2018:05:17:13:53:49 by Ollie4sam.

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by fishbiscuits 17 May, 2018 14:22

redjam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Um, have you been out in Lordship Lane at night
> recently, Louisa? If you go out at the weekend
> most of the bars and restaurants seem to be doing
> pretty well from what I can see, judging by the
> numbers of people around.

I think LL seemed much busier on thur/fri/sat nights 10 years ago than it does now. And it was a younger crowed too. Maybe partly an older demographic living/moving to ED now (middle-aged with kids). Maybe because other areas have come up in the world, so people don't bother travelling to ED any more to go drinking.

As for Nando's - I think they are taking the Mothercare site on Rye Lane. I think it's a good move for them.. they have a broad appeal, and Peckham is a diverse area (in terms of background, ethnicity, age, budget) with a rapidly growing night-time economy.

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by Louisa 17 May, 2018 14:56

Interestingly, according to the planning site, Rye Laneís Barclays Bank will be moving to the site tipped for a Turtle Bay restaurant/bar on the unit at the corner of Bournemouth Road/Rye Lane. This then leaves the former Barclays site at the end of the lane empty. Turtle Bay have not commented much, but I wouldnít mind guessing theyíll aim for a change of use on this soon to be empty space, where Barclays will be moving from.

Louisa.

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by achoo 23 July, 2018 16:01

Any update to what the Londis is going to be?

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by Abe_froeman 24 July, 2018 13:57

Costa Coffee!

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by JimmyMc1311 25 July, 2018 17:44

"All those who moan about "i want this, i want that" on the lane, acting like a spoilt brat who's allowance has been cut from 5k a month to only 2k ;)"

Your post just made my day.

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by healey 26 July, 2018 07:41

fishbiscuits Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------
> I think LL seemed much busier on thur/fri/sat
> nights 10 years ago than it does now. And it was a
> younger crowed too. Maybe partly an older
> demographic living/moving to ED now (middle-aged
> with kids). Maybe because other areas have come up
> in the world, so people don't bother travelling to
> ED any more to go drinking.
>


A fair few of those have stayed put and sprouted kids! For me the loss of Inside 72 left a bit of a hole further up LL. Most of that sort of crowd can now be found at the EDT.

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by fishbiscuits 26 July, 2018 09:33

Indeed they have, Healey.

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by nharrod 26 July, 2018 12:56

I'd vote wimpy, you just cant get a good bender in a bun around ED anymore!!

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by NewWave 26 July, 2018 21:38

I very much feel we don't need another Coffee chain or resturant.
What I think we DO need however that the site would be perfect for is a branch of Wholefoods or Planet Organic.
I know we have SMBS which is very good but we do need a bigger offer with organic ready meal options,bakery and all that the whole foods and planet organic chain offers.
At present we have to go to Clapham which is the nearest branch.
I'm sure theres a market for this here.
And it would do well

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by natty01295 26 July, 2018 22:26

nharrod Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'd vote wimpy, you just cant get a good bender in
> a bun around ED anymore!!

YES THATS WHAT I SAY
Let's VOTE (WIMPY)

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by budleigh 27 July, 2018 09:07

That would KILL our independent shops. We already have SMBS, Franklins & Organic Village, as well as bakeries, a fish monger, two cheese mongers, a butcher etc. Plus both of those chains are horrifically overpriced. If anything, perhaps a Cook would be a good option? Frozen ready made 'luxury' food, good for busy families etc.

www.cookfood.net

If it's a Costa, I will be appalled. At this point I'm hoping it's going to be a Nandos (which I'm not a fan of), just so we don't have junk coffee shops.


NewWave Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I very much feel we don't need another Coffee
> chain or resturant.
> What I think we DO need however that the site
> would be perfect for is a branch of Wholefoods or
> Planet Organic.
> I know we have SMBS which is very good but we do
> need a bigger offer with organic ready meal
> options,bakery and all that the whole foods and
> planet organic chain offers.
> At present we have to go to Clapham which is the
> nearest branch.
> I'm sure theres a market for this here.
> And it would do well

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by Sue 27 July, 2018 09:37

I'm hoping it's not going to be a Nandos.

Apart from feeling sorry for the poor factory farmed chickens, Nandos always seem to have a really weird vibe (based on an admittedly very small sample of three).

Anyway, there's one just down the road near King's.

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by DulwichBorn&Bred 27 July, 2018 09:43

So no one knows for sure what itís going to be?

messageRe: Change to restaurant old Londis
Posted by Sue 27 July, 2018 09:44

DulwichBorn&Bred Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So no one knows for sure what itís going to be?


Seems not.

But hey, a great excuse for the usual forum rambling (including mine), no? big grin

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