Jump to content

Southwark Consultation on no entry - Denmark Hill/Champion Hill


Siduhe

Recommended Posts

Noticed this online consultation which is open for comments until 22 October - there are plans to restrict traffic other than cyclists turning into Champion Hill from Denmark Hill on the basis that most of it is people cutting through.


https://consultations.southwark.gov.uk/environment-leisure/championhilltrial/


May be of interest to those on Bromar, Ivanhoe and Pytchley Roads as well as those on Champion Hill (who I assume are being directly consulted).


Residents of Champion Hill and its side roads will still be able to enter and exit the area with both arms remaining two-way. However, northbound entry to the Denmark Hill arm of Champion Hill will be restricted so people living here will need to take a short detour via Grove Lane/Champion Park to access their homes via Denmark Hill.



Through traffic will need to take alternative north-bound routes and we will monitor the area to analyse any impacts on local roads. While we hope most through traffic will stay on or switch to the main roads, due to the banned right turn from Grove Hill Road into Grove Lane traffic may potentially be displaced onto the surrounding roads of Bromar Road, Ivanhoe Road, and Pytchley Road to access Dog Kennel Hill/Grove Lane. While we hope that traffic eventually adjusts to using main roads instead of residential roads, we will closely monitor the traffic, allowing for at least six months of settling-in.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oct is normally the 6 month review of Southwark staff's annual work plan for the current year.


First starts in April then October. It is where Southwark staff have to show how they are working to gain their annual increment on the salary scale.


So one should expect more schemes like the one above whether they are needed or not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


due to the banned right turn from Grove Hill Road into Grove Lane traffic may potentially be displaced onto the surrounding roads of Bromar Road, Ivanhoe Road, and Pytchley Road to access Dog Kennel Hill/Grove Lane.



Yup. That's what I'll be doing.


What's all this about "hoping" drivers will adjust to main roads over time? As far as I can tell, most rush hour commuters are in thrall to traffic-beating apps like Waze and Google. Just what "main" route is Southwark hoping drivers and nav apps will take?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The banned right turn is not new. It is a comment on the current position.


The change is a no entry for cars someway along champion Hill ie not at the junction with Dog Kennel Hill. Traffic from the west will be unaffected. Traffic going west from Dog Kennel Hill along champion Hill will not be able to access Denmark Hill.


The consultation https://consultations.southwark.gov.uk/environment-leisure/championhilltrial/ closes Oct 22nd

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So living at the bottom of Grove Park if I want to get to Casino Avenue, Sunray Avenue, Herne Hill etc due to the banned right turn from Grove Hill Road into Grove Lane traffic will be displaced onto the surrounding roads of Bromar Road, Ivanhoe Road, and Pytchley Road to access Dog Kennel Hill/Grove Lane. Then all the way down to Denmark Hill and up again towards Herne Hill.


Instead of just going over to Champion Hill and right down Champion Hill.


Why do Southwark always want to change what works and has always worked.


Same thought pattern that kept Camberwell Grove closed for so long and push traffic around residential roads.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Champion Hill has the same traffic levels as the parallel A Road Champion Park.

Champion Hill is part of quiet way and London Cycle Network route 23.

That's why the council is proposing this filtered restriction. It will make it harder/longer for residents making some car journeys. It will make it more attractive for those walking and cycling.

If we're ever to solve obesity levels, global warming. air pollution we need many more of these proposals being implemented.


Hi P68,

London's population has risen by 2 million in the last 25 years and is forecast to do the same. Doing nothing will see our residential road suffer the same levels of use/.congestion as our A roads. As indeed is already happening to Champion Hill. People, when faced with congestion, changes routes and travel modes - it evaporates. Much as when you build roads, allow new routes for motor vehicles new traffic is generated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does this plan also take one of the vital routes for emergency services to get from the east Dulwich area to the Kings college hospital area ?

Whilst the main route is still there, if that is blocked by additional traffic then emergency vehicles will have less options for getting anywhere quickly


Wonder if the hospital and emergency services have been consulted

Link to comment
Share on other sites

James Barber Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Champion Hill has the same traffic levels as the

> parallel A Road Champion Park.

> Champion Hill is part of quiet way and London

> Cycle Network route 23.

> That's why the council is proposing this filtered

> restriction. It will make it harder/longer for

> residents making some car journeys. It will make

> it more attractive for those walking and cycling.

>

> If we're ever to solve obesity levels, global

> warming. air pollution we need many more of these

> proposals being implemented.

>

> Hi P68,

> London's population has risen by 2 million in the

> last 25 years and is forecast to do the same.

> Doing nothing will see our residential road suffer

> the same levels of use/.congestion as our A roads.

> As indeed is already happening to Champion Hill.

> People, when faced with congestion, changes routes

> and travel modes - it evaporates. Much as when you

> build roads, allow new routes for motor vehicles

> new traffic is generated.


Having lived on and around Champion Hill as a child since 1958 I have to admit I have not seen any major increase in traffic over the years apart from the brief burst when the rush hour is on. Not that you would really notice. Apart from that brief spurt it is pleasant for pedestrians, cyclists and car users with very little traffic and is safe to use.


Appears that this looks like the Camberwell Grove mindset to ban vehicles.


I thought I read you live on Champion Hill does that have an influence on you thinking.


Thought Sally Buyings comments summed things up well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

spider69 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------


> Having lived on and around Champion Hill as a

> child since 1958 I have to admit I have not seen

> any major increase in traffic over the years apart

> from the brief burst when the rush hour is on. Not

> that you would really notice. Apart from that

> brief spurt it is pleasant for pedestrians,

> cyclists and car users with very little traffic

> and is safe to use.


I lived on Champion Hill for ten years 2006-2016 on the ground floor of Ruskin Park House, at the end nearest the junction. From 6.30AM to 9AM the road was blocked as far back as the student halls, with traffic frequently hooting at those in front to pull out onto Denmark Hill. The pollution was filthy, we had to keep our windows closed at all times in the hottest weather. For some reason evening rush hour wasn't too bad. During the day there was a continual stream of traffic, most of it driving in excess of the speed limit, with many drivers going the wrong side of the traffic islands to avoid having to slow down. The only way it's safe to use as a cyclist is to hold a position in the middle of the road (and then get abused by car drivers for slowing them down) - if you move at all to the left someone will try to squeeze by at a pinch point and you risk being slammed into parked cars.


Too many comments on here symptomatic of the "I should be allowed to drive whenever and wherever I want" mindset. People are dying in their thousands because of London's traffic every year, and many thousands more, especially children, are suffering serious health problems. It's not good enough to say "Oh the council should leave everything as it is and not interfere."


In answer to Artful's (sensible) question, the road won't be completely barriered, there will just be an island on the right-hand side (as you come up from Denmark Hill) and a no-entry sign, which I assume emergency vehicles are permitted to ignore - the road will still be two-way either side of the semi-closure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I drive this road every morning as part of my commute and am usually heading down champion hill during rush hour between 8 -8.15am. There is never any traffic or congestion. The only time I've encountered backed up traffic was during the winter snow this year for obvious reasons (and someone had crashed into the bollard at the bottom)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

wimble Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I drive this road every morning as part of my

> commute and am usually heading down champion hill

> during rush hour between 8 -8.15am. There is never

> any traffic or congestion. The only time I've

> encountered backed up traffic was during the

> winter snow this year for obvious reasons (and

> someone had crashed into the bollard at the

> bottom)


I can only offer my empirical experience of living right next to this road for ten years. Of course those who use it for their daily commute would have no motive for claiming that everything's fine with it, would they? This is a well-known rat run, leading on to one of the busiest roads in the area, and you've never been held up there? I wonder why when my wife and I wanted to leave there at morning rush hour in the car we'd frequently be held up for a number of minutes? Just unlucky, I guess...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

While understanding the points of view of Champion Hill residents, I?m really concerned about the knock-on effects of this trial. This won?t stop people who need to use vehicles using them - it will just displace the cars and vans onto other roads.



I think this trial will have a serious impact on congestion from the junction between Dog Kennel Hill and Champion Hill round past Denmark Hill station. Previous roadworks etc have demonstrated that it takes very little to slow buses going up Dog Kennel Hill considerably, with tailbacks going all the way down Dog Kennel Hill and sometimes back to Goose Green.


The buses up Dog Kennel Hill are a central part of the commute for a very large number of people living in East Dulwich, Forest Hill etc. I think consultation with TFL is essential before pursuing this trial.


I would also expect the trial to have a serious knock-on effect on the junctions between Townley Rd and East Dulwich Grove, and between East Dulwich Grove and Red Post Hill. This is the obvious alternative route between Lordship Lane and Red Post Hill/Ruskin Park. These junctions are already very busy in the morning, especially with coaches and other traffic going to Alleyn?s and James Allen?s Girls School. An increase in congestion at these junctions would lead to even longer tailbacks (and pollution outside schools due to cars idling in queues) and delay the 37 bus route, which is another essential route for many people?s morning commute.


If the impact on buses is as bad as I fear then a lot of people are going to be adversely affected by this trial, which is planned to last for 6-12 months.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have sighn the consulation. Very much against this and so are many people in the surround area.


Not only do we have a horrible proposal for large scheme of apartments on the corner the Champion Hill/DKH that will ruin the area, this road scheme will the ultimate spat on the face from southwark, to us, again.....


DO NOT DO IT! Simple, leave it as it is, sometimes doing nothing is the best thing to do. Also the cost to the tax payers to do a badly thought trial would be a good insensitive to not to waste money! It would not be cheap. It's not a welcome scheme, badly thought one at that!


~Adding more time to get to destinations this is.


This road is critical to get about the local area, and serves to re-leave congestion on the other busy roads into London, for traders, delivery company's, and getting to relatives, getting to work. It would only add burden to the other areas, let this road share the strain like all the other roads do. More traffic standing more pollution on roads near the station of Denmark hill, and increase accidents there too.


Southwark and its staff need to be put in their place, this borough is getting worse with rubbish schemes like these, please sign against this to stop this! Poor people who live in this road are nearly completely cut off, and emergency vehicles, did they even think about that?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

betternowthanthen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

Southwark and its staff need to be put in their

> place, this borough is getting worse with rubbish

> schemes like these, please sign against this to

> stop this! Poor people who live in this road are

> nearly completely cut off, and emergency vehicles,

> did they even think about that?


Having had a closer look at this scheme I tend to agree it's probably a bad one for the displacement effect it will cause - however it's a bit dramatic to say that. If you live on Champion Hill you won't be cut off, if you live above the corner you'll have to go round via Denmark Hill (three minutes maximum, probably), if you live below nothing's changed. Emergency vehicles (which generally would prefer a wider main road anyway, when I lived on CH we heard them a lot on Denmark Hill but only saw them on CH if they were coming to an address on that road) will be allowed to travel through the no-entry, as they are generally.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Grove Lane Residents? Association has just submitted an objection. The unintended consequences of this misconceived and appallingly timed scheme are quite serious. Closing Champion Hill to through-traffic westbound (from Grove Hill Road and Dog Kennel Hill) will cause serious northbound congestion in the morning rush hour on Dog Kennel Hill, the southern section of Grove Lane and Champion Park, where it will back up at the already overloaded junction with Denmark Hill.

This will have two unacceptable consequences:

1) it will increase journey times, including bus journey times and ambulance journey times

2) it will increase air pollution on Dog Kennel Hill, Grove Lane and Champion Park, roads with a high density of residents, which carry thousands of pedestrians to Denmark Hill and East Dulwich stations at the top and bottom of the hill, Kings College Hospital and local schools.

The main roads, onto which the trial aims to displace traffic, constitute a Primary Route for ambulances serving Kings College Hospital. Kings is a major teaching hospital, whose busy A&E department and new Critical Care Centre accept patients from across the South East. Its workers and patients (and those of the Maudsley) are heavily dependent on the northbound bus service in the morning, especially in the absence of a tube station.

The inevitable impacts of the proposed closure of Champion Hill to westbound through traffic on traffic flow, emergency service response times, bus journey times and air quality (in what is already an Air Quality Management Area) will be exacerbated if the trial is undertaken at the same time as major roadworks scheduled for the next 12 months and beyond by both Southwark (already begun on Denmark Hill) and TfL (Camberwell town centre). Electronic billboards are already warning motorists to avoid using Grove Lane/Champion Park for th? next year and to use alternative routes! Please make representations to LB Southwark to postpone the Champion Hill trial until after Southwark and TfL?s improvements at Denmark Hill and Camberwell Green have all been completed and more detailed study of the potential impacts has been made through wider and more in depth consultations.

https://consultations.southwark.gov.uk/environment-leisure/championhilltrial/consultation/intro/

Cross borough cooperation is needed on this between Lambeth and Southwark. LB Southwark needs to be reminded that all residents living in the area have a voice, that decisions to introduce traffic measures that will impact across wider communities and on NHS providers and on emergency services need taking with great care and after appropriate consultations. Lambeth had to pull the plug on a similarly misconceived road closure in Loughborough Junction after the Fire Brigade lodged a formal complaint about increased response times. The LAS had noted similar delays. Kings had said patients and workers were suffering unacceptable delays getting to the hospital, and had commented on a perceived increase in pollution, resulting from the congestion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In response to the opening post - the residents of surrounding, affected roads onto which traffic would be displaced (Bromar, Pytchley, Grove Lane and others) were not consulted about this trial. It is also worth noting that TfL rejected the closure of Champion Hill a few years ago on grounds of unacceptable delays to bus journey times. And that the trial is strongly opposed by most residents of Champion Hill itself (many of whom will be unable to access their homes except via Denmark Hill). I gather there are also concerns about how coaches transporting students (of whom there are 750+ on Champion Hill) to and from Kings Halls of Residence will safely negotiate the proposed one way system on the Denmark Hill leg of Champion Hill.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Latest Discussions

    • Did I say that?  I'm not sure why adults cycle on the pavement beyond the odd short cut, for a few metres, and even then walk the bike if there are people on it.  I don't condone unsafe riding.  I don't feel the need to go on about it, feel it gets disproportionate coverage when there are other issues, and that there is a sense that from some "oh the poor motorist"  and "its all those cyclists fault" that the "poor motorist is being victimised". I could post dozens of stories of dangerous driving that have affected me, I see it every day, but don't feel the need, and would of course have to balance this with the fact that most road users happily share space. I've asked some good questions about how you address 'antisocial cycling" but nobody has offered any answers - as this is a forum I'd be keen to understand. The Old Street enforcement is pretty rare and I doubt whether this will make much of a difference unless the police role this out wider.  They wont.  There is no political will.  I've been stopped by the police cycling maybe three times in twenty years, twice to invite me into the cab of a HGV as part of a safer cycling campaign, and once as they were doing security marking.  I've seen plenty of dangerous driving in plain view of police officers, more often than not illegal ebikes and food delivery riders.  Interesting reading a MPS FOI on cycling enforcement, 52 FPN in 5 years for cycling on pavements, therefore either it hardly happens or it is a low priority https://www.met.police.uk/foi-ai/metropolitan-police/d/september-2022/fixed-penalty-notices-issued-cycling-offences-london-january2017-august2022/                       Row Labels 2017 2018 2019 2020 2021 2022 Grand Total   Cycling on footway 358 258 297 460 552 174 2099   Pedal cycle - contrave traffic sign   4 74 246 158 66 548   Pedal cycle - contravening automatic traffic signals 2445           2445   Pedal cycle - contravening constable on traffic duty   3   1     4   PEDAL CYCLE - CONTRAVENING DIRECTION GIVEN BY POLICE CONSTABLE / TRAFFIC SURVEY   3 1 1     5   Pedal cycle - contravening traffic signs 72           72   Pedal cycle - contravening warden on traffic duty   1     2   3   Pedal cycle - failing to stop for a police constable 17 11 16 18 24 10 96   Pedal cycle - lights not conforming or lit during hours of darkness 65 80 93 122 90 31 481   Pedal cycle - riding where prohibited 4 12 1       17   Pedal cycle - unauthorised passenger 1 2 6 6 3 2 20   Pedal cycle - without lights being fitted 8 6 2 9 13 4 42   Ride a pedal cycle on a footpath / causeway by the side of a road made / set apart for the use of foot passengers     9 16 14 13 52   Ride a pedal cycle on a road and fail to comply with the indication given by a traffic sign/light   3548 5893 4490 4751 2324 21006   Grand Total 2970 3928 6392 5369 5607 2624 26890                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  
    • Hello - sorry to wade into this so late. If anyone is looking to drop off donations to the Community Fridge that runs from Albrighton Community Centre, please feel free to do so any day (seven days a week).  The centre open at 9.00am each day and reception is open until at least 5.30 each day.  We are very grateful for any donations between these times.  As I'm sure everyone can appreciate with food, energy, accommodation, and pretty much everything else costing more and more, the numbers of people that are struggling to support themselves is growing all the time, so we are grateful from whatever people are able to donate. As has been discussed in this thread, we do receive donations from Sainsburys and Marks & Spencer who donate unused food they have left over at the end of each day, and they also have customer donation boxes to allow customers to drop of extra items for us.  Locally Co-op, Lidl and Getir also support us, and slightly further afield, Brindisa, and Harrods also provide us with their unsold food. As some of you may be aware, unlike most food banks,  Community Fridges provide a lot of short life food.  Bread and cakes, as has been spoken about, but also dairy, meat, poultry and fish, as well as fresh fruit and vegetables.  We can accept donations of all these foods, on condition that they are within their 'sell by' date, where applicable.  Food with an expired 'sell by' date cannot legally be sold, or in our case, given away, because potentially it could be harmful.  Best before dates are purely advisory however, so very often food past its best before date is perfectly edible and therefore assuming the food is in reasonable condition can be eaten safely. We are also adding a new string to our bow in the coming week. From 30th April, we will also be rehoming unwanted small electrical goods.  They must be clean and in working condition.  We will check them over and PAT test them, before rehoming them with people using the Community Fridge, so please dig through your cupboards and have a look what you can find. One final note, we are desperately short of volunteers at the Community Fridge, so please get in touch if you maybe have a little time to help out. Thank you Steve [email protected] w: albrightoncommunityfridge.org i: albrighton_community_fridge_ t: albrightonse22
    • There is one listed on Freecycle Dulwich village Pickwick road I can’t seem to copy a link 
    • I don't think this picture shows fly-tipping as such, but more the result of over-flowing and unemptied bins. Still very nasty for children (anyone) to have to negotiate, but we're not talking mattresses or tyres or building waste here, I'd think. Which we have had locally at times.
Home
Events
Sign In

Sign In



Or sign in with one of these services

Search
×
    Search In
×
×
  • Create New...