Forum Sponsors

www.advancedpainters.co.uk
xxxx
https://www.tutorfront.com

www.facebook.com/dulwichecogardening

Advertise here

The East Dulwich Forum
Would you recommend your builder, plumber, electrician or carpenter?
Goto Page: Previous123456789Next
Current Page: 3 of 9
messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry into Champion Hill from Denmark Hill
Posted by richard tudor January 27, 02:30PM

The question asked was how did Ruskin Park House vote?

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry into Champion Hill from Denmark Hill
Posted by rendelharris January 27, 02:43PM

Come off it, with your statement "how the flats of Ruskin Park House, with most way off the actual road, voted" you are clearly implying that their votes should carry less weight than those who live right on the street.

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry into Champion Hill from Denmark Hill
Posted by richard tudor January 27, 02:47PM

Only in your mind. All I wanted to know was how many voted yes and how many voted no.

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry into Champion Hill from Denmark Hill
Posted by rendelharris January 27, 02:56PM

Then why mention their distance from the road at all?

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry into Champion Hill from Denmark Hill
Posted by richard tudor January 27, 03:53PM

Almost 10 years ago you mentioned you lived on the front of the estate facing the road beyond the grass and pavement where you found it was not to your liking so you left. Would those living in front and behind now in 2019 have the same views as 2015. Champion Hill is now very much quieter for cycles, pedestrians and for cars.

A new consultation should have been made before closing this road off, since 2015 when this was conducted things have greatly changed. It is a very pleasant street and safe street for all to use, not that it was not before.

So how many votes were cast yes/No is important to know.

Distance from the front of a property to a road could be important as it might effect how to vote. To some not all.

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry into Champion Hill from Denmark Hill
Posted by rendelharris January 27, 04:14PM

We moved there in 2006 and left in 2016 (when all the traffic measures currently in place were already established) - in 2016 the road was neither pleasant nor safe, particularly at rush hour. As someone who worked from home with my desk at a window overlooking the junction, I feel I might have a better overall view of how the street worked than someone only using it once or twice a day.

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry into Champion Hill from Denmark Hill
Posted by Charles Notice January 28, 06:19PM

I think that this closure is not needed at all.

Have Southwark conducted any recent studies as to the current traffic conditions and all round environmental aspects before closing this road junction. It appears that they are doing it without any up to date information.

I have just looked at my journey from passing though Camberwell Green, which is always bad, to Champion Hill/Arnold Avenue which is just past the closure and to get there is ill thought out and not a lot of thought has gone into it. I am being pushed through residential roads which are off the most environmental direct route to get why I need to
be. Increasing my time on the road in a major way.

Have people looked at a map to see how residents need to get to their homes and how others will be effected.

Rendel Harris wrote.

"in 2016 the road was neither pleasant nor safe, particularly at rush hour. As someone who worked from home with my desk at a window overlooking the junction, I feel I might have a better overall view of how the street worked than someone only using it once or twice a day."

You moved sometime ago, how do you know what the conditions are now 24/7? No doubt your views have not changed.

I would like to see an up to date recent report why this has to go ahead. Other posters have asked but have received zero response.

I do not subscribe to Southwark's "we have figures"(old) this is what we are going to do, old figures dont worry"

Like the Government slip in bad news or unsupportable news whilst a major event is taking place people will miss it. i.e the current CPZ.

If it was needed I would support it 100%, it is not speaking to residents they do not want it or see why it is needed.

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry into Champion Hill from Denmark Hill
Posted by rendelharris January 28, 06:26PM

Charles Notice Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> You moved sometime ago, how do you know what the
> conditions are now 24/7? No doubt your views have
> not changed.

I walk and cycle up and down the road several times a week, and I have friends in RPH whom I regularly visit and who talk about the situation. You don't live there but it doesn't seem to stop you giving us your tuppence worth, but apparently I shouldn't because...oh, because I don't agree with you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was january 28, 06:29pm by rendelharris.

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry into Champion Hill from Denmark Hill
Posted by Charles Notice January 28, 07:19PM

You do not live there any more.

No first hand experience only second hand opinions.

No need to reply unless you have up to date personnel information.

Just noticed the errors.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was january 28, 08:23pm by Charles Notice.

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry into Champion Hill from Denmark Hill
Posted by rendelharris January 28, 07:37PM

Charles Notice Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You do live there any more.

Do I?

> No first hand experience only second hand
> opinions.

So using the road three or four times a week gives me no experience? Do you live on Champion Hill? No you don't, but you feel entitled to give your opinion.

> No need to reply

Yes you've tried this before, you'd like to remain in your pro-car echo chamber and avoid all opposing opinions. Tough.

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry into Champion Hill from Denmark Hill
Posted by rendelharris January 28, 08:48PM

Charles Notice Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> If it was needed I would support it 100%, it is
> not speaking to residents they do not want it or
> see why it is needed.

Southwark consultation:

The majority of people (57%) within the consultation area were in support of the trial with 71% of residents in Champion Hill in support.

Facts, jolly inconvenient, aren't they?

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry into Champion Hill from Denmark Hill
Posted by Charles Notice January 28, 08:52PM

The majority of people (57%) within the consultation area were in support of the trial with 71% of residents in Champion Hill in support.

Facts, jolly inconvenient, aren't they?

How many people does 71% represent? Like RPH how many said yes and how many said no.

Please supply.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was january 28, 08:55pm by Charles Notice.

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry into Champion Hill from Denmark Hill
Posted by rendelharris January 28, 09:00PM

Charles Notice Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> How many people does 71% represent? Like RPH how
> many said yes and how many said no.
>
> Please supply.

The funny thing is, it's not noted on the report how people from RPH voted, nor is it noted how many people from numbers 17-35 voted, or any other daft arbitrary measure - perhaps the survey took the controversial view that everyone living on the street who has to live next to it and get their cars out onto it and walk along it with their children, whether they live in one of the lovely big houses or in a block of flats, has a right to have a say? Perhaps they even thought that residents' views matter more than people who want it preserved as a rat run so they can shave 100 seconds off their journey from one area to another? Controversial but I think I can almost see their reasoning.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit was january 28, 09:05pm by rendelharris.

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry into Champion Hill from Denmark Hill
Posted by Charles Notice January 28, 09:32PM

"Perhaps they even thought that residents' views matter more than people who want it preserved as a rat run so they can shave 100 seconds off their journey from one area to another? Controversial but I think I can almost see their reasoning."

As it is most residents that use this road to leave and reach there homes I find that hard to believe they want it closed.

Please supply the figures that confirm this.

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry into Champion Hill from Denmark Hill
Posted by rendelharris January 28, 09:52PM

Charles Notice Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> As it is most residents that use this road to
> leave and reach there homes I find that hard to
> believe they want it closed.
>
> Please supply the figures that confirm this.

What is it about "71% of residents in Champion Hill were in support of the trial" that you find difficult to understand?

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry into Champion Hill from Denmark Hill
Posted by Charles Notice January 28, 10:22PM

How many people does 71% represent, how many people actually voted, how many people voted yes and how many people voted no.

Unless this is declared the result is not worth the paper it is printed on.

As this looks like turning into a usual RendHarris thread of on and on and on till you decide to give up because it will just go on and on, whether you believe you have a valid reason for posting I will cede you the winner.

I believe that this closure is madness but it meets Southwark's overall plan of controlling motor car usage so in the end they will win.

This thread is over for me. Perhaps others might like to take it up? May be those that live in the area effected by the closure who will have to use the new routes home.

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry into Champion Hill from Denmark Hill
Posted by rendelharris January 28, 10:32PM

I know it's hard to accept when people disagree with you Charles, but disagree they do, it has been voted on (every resident on Champion Hill was given the information pack and the opportunity to vote and 71% of those responding were in favour) and the trial is going ahead, gripe about it as much as you wish.

ETA Found those figures for you, 83 Champion Hill residents voted yes and 32 no. Still not worth the paper it's written on, I'm sure.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was january 28, 10:36pm by rendelharris.

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry into Champion Hill from Denmark Hill
Posted by first mate January 29, 07:46AM

Think Charles makes a reasonable point though.

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry into Champion Hill from Denmark Hill
Posted by sdrs January 29, 03:42PM

Residents of a number of neighbouring roads that will be directly affected were not leafleted to notify them of the online questionnaire, the leafleting was highly selective. There are legitimate concerns from many quarters (including from residents of Champion Hill itself) that displacing traffic from what is manifestly already the healthiest street in the area (Safer and healthier still since the introduction of the 20MPH speed limit and speed humps) onto other less healthy (but also residential) streets, will add to existing congestion on these roads, pushing NO2 levels up to dangerous levels at peak times across the wider area. These are densely residential roads used by thousands of pedestrians daily to access local schools, stations, bus stops and hospitals. One of these is Dog Kennel Hill, where the pupil entrance is located. There are also concerns about the impact on northbound buses in morning rush hour and on emergency response times (ambulances trying to access A&E via Grove Lane and Champion Park, for example). The monitoring plan did not include NO2 monitoring on those roads traffic will be displaced onto but Councillor Livingstone has agreed to get some installed and to look into extending the monitoring of bus journey times on Champion Park, where the worst effects of the trial are likely to be felt by bus users.

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry into Champion Hill from Denmark Hill
Posted by farfisamania January 31, 01:16PM

"How many people does 71% represent? Like RPH how many said yes and how many said no"

It's all in a very easily accessible report on the website.

In Champion Hill and side roads: yes, 80, no 32. It took me about 5 seconds to find that.

It seems like a good scheme and unlikely to cause the carmaggedon some are suggesting. If it does cause any problems, the trial will highlight them: this is why people run trials. Unfortunately when dealing with motoring issues people will indulge in any amount of goalpost moving to justify their annoyance at having to drive 30 seconds further.

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry into Champion Hill from Denmark Hill
Posted by rupert james January 31, 02:26PM

Following your email I looked at the "Sustrans" consultation for the "quietway" that met with over all disapproval, if my memory serves me and has not got off the ground, Southwark has used this document to implement the scheme.

What would have been helpful would be to know was how each individual street voted to see where problems might be by looking at the yes or no response to closure. Was it one part that wanted it or from responses across the whole area.

Overall they did not appear to be worried or they would have replied in greater numbers with a yes or no vote.

People should look at the consultation document and make their own minds up as to whether this should have been subject to a more up to date consultation bearing in mind Champion Hill has greatly improved.

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry into Champion Hill from Denmark Hill
Posted by AylwardS February 01, 07:33AM

Champion Hill

Itís a trial and there will be formal consultation if the trial is judged successful. Monitoring will take place for 9-12 months. If it affects you feed your experience and views into the formal consultation so it can be judged on current traffic flow / impact.

The next stages given on the Council website [consultations.southwark.gov.uk] are:
* February - Autumn 2019 (6-9 months): Monitoring period, including settling in period and monitoring surveys, and online feedback questionnaire/liaison with key stakeholders
* Late Autumn 2019: Results of monitoring analysed and presented and consultation on permanent feature
* Winter 2019/20: Decision making-†consultation report and recommendations
* Spring 2020: Make permanent/remove/modifications/mitigation (subject to statutory consultation)

They also say what they want to monitor so if one of these affects you tell them.

What do we want to monitor?
During the trial we intend to monitor impact of the trial on the following:
* Road safety/traffic dominance on Champion Hill
* Road safety/traffic dominance around Dog Kennel Hill Primary School
* Road safety at the raised table in Champion†Hill
* Access needs for local residents
* Traffic displacement onto adjacent residential roads
* Traffic on Dog Kennel Hill, Grove Lane, Champion Park and Denmark Hill†
Iíve only scanned it but there is a report on next steps which includes info on monitoring and what is expected from the trial. Tie back your feedback to this and show youíve considered their objectives and the local impact. [consultations.southwark.gov.uk]

A trial gives time to see how it works, what the impact is and how it affects you. Seems like a good thing to me - the final decision can be made on the current situation not how it was or is expected to be and those affected can monitor it too not just the Council

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry into Champion Hill from Denmark Hill
Posted by rupert james February 01, 10:21AM

The picture of Champion Hill in the consultation looks a very very pleasant place to live.

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry into Champion Hill from Denmark Hill
Posted by rendelharris February 01, 10:50AM

rupert james Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The picture of Champion Hill in the consultation
> looks a very very pleasant place to live.

And the caption reads "Taken at 11.30AM", hardly peak hour.

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry into Champion Hill from Denmark Hill
Posted by rupert james February 01, 11:00AM

I suspect as people have been saying it is only for a very limited period traffic is there and then it is like this.
Then quiet, pleasant and no problem.

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry into Champion Hill from Denmark Hill
Posted by wulfhound February 01, 04:03PM

Indeed - the problem is that the traffic is exactly when kids need to be walking or even cycling to and from school. It's nice to be able to pick quiet times of day to travel, but schools don't give that option unfortunately.

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry into Champion Hill from Denmark Hill
Posted by rupert james February 01, 04:24PM

Simple answer.

Make the road DKH/ Champion Hill no entry 0830 to 1000 and Denmark Hill/Champion Hill 1530 1700 hrs.

Southwark will earn money with camera fining vehicles that do not obey

Like the camera covering the bus lane on DKH.

Parents happy, residents and car owners happy.

This thought cost zero.

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry into Champion Hill from Denmark Hill
Posted by rendelharris February 01, 04:55PM

I'd support that - only mornings 7.30-9.30 and evenings 15.30-18.30.

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry into Champion Hill from Denmark Hill
Posted by sally buying February 01, 05:22PM

Why was this option never thought of at the very beginning before this consultation was pushed through?

Is it because "Sustrans" need to justify their fee's and Southwark need a backstop?

Well done Rupert



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was february 01, 05:28pm by sally buying.

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry into Champion Hill from Denmark Hill
Posted by spider69 February 03, 01:04PM

I have asked Southwark Council why this option was never put forward for consideration.

I am sure my lone voice will be ignored.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was february 03, 01:05pm by spider69.

Goto Page: Previous123456789Next
Current Page: 3 of 9

Back to top of page
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
Donate                   Terms of use                  Help & FAQs                   Advertise               RSS rss feed               Copyright 2006 - 2018 East Dulwich Forum