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messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry - Denmark Hill/Champion Hill
Posted by sdrs February 22, 10:21PM

Thank you!

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry into Champion Hill from Denmark Hill
Posted by Passiflora February 22, 10:26PM

James Barber Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> London's population has risen in the last 25 years
> from 6.8million to 8.8 million. And seen increases
> in road use. London is forecast to see another 2
> million residents in the next 25 years. Not
> changing our roads will see more crazy levels of
> vehicles use.
>
> The traffic count of Champion Hill showed that it
> was now carrying the same number of vehicles as
> local A roads.It has particularly narrow footpaths
> along the E-W section and was never designed to be
> a major through route.
> I hope more such residential roads are closed
> stopping often equally high and increasing levels
> of through traffic.
>
> Plenty of evidence that building new roads or
> increasing junction capacity generates more
> vehicles journeys. And vice versa. Humans are
> amazingly adaptable. But it is painful as people
> learn to adjust.
>
> PS. I live on Champion Hill and majority of our
> car journeys are now longer but we're also making
> fewer as a family as a result of the closure. So
> all those streets we would have driven along will
> be benefiting...

Some of your statements have a quite a selfish attitude James!

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry into Champion Hill from Denmark Hill
Posted by Passiflora February 22, 10:31PM

As pointed out earlier the Champion Park Estate has now become a dead end, i.e. cul de sac, and should be shown on the signs at the top of Dog Kennel Hill as such? Terribly thought out scheme that should have councillors that do not reply to emails, phone calls asking themselves why did they agree to it?

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry into Champion Hill from Denmark Hill
Posted by rendelharris February 22, 10:42PM

Passiflora Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Some of your statements have a quite a selfish
> attitude James!

No they don't, that's just plain rude. James has been quite open about the fact that he lives on Champion Hill but is clearly much more interested in the wider issues facing London. Whereas your comments have demonstrated time and again that you think you should be allowed to drive your car wherever and whenever you like, regardless of the consequences for the environment and public health. Sorry, who's got the selfish attitude?

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry into Champion Hill from Denmark Hill
Posted by Passiflora February 22, 10:54PM

Rude? Look at some of your own posts and replies to other comments!

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry into Champion Hill from Denmark Hill
Posted by JoeLeg February 22, 11:12PM

Passiflora Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Some of your statements have a quite a selfish
> attitude James!


How on Earth is any of that selfish? Genuinely perplexed...

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry into Champion Hill from Denmark Hill
Posted by rendelharris February 22, 11:15PM

Passiflora Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rude? Look at some of your own posts and replies
> to other comments!

In what way does your opinion of what I say mitigate your unjustified rudeness to James?

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry into Champion Hill from Denmark Hill
Posted by talfourdite February 23, 03:15PM

guys, has everyone seen the link and taken the time to voice their views on the Southwark feedback link, shown earlier in the thread. I think this change is the worst idea ever and Iím thinking of doing a letter drop through some letter boxes so everyone (including Dulwich residents) can see why their already highly congested traffic has increased so markedly.
Iím struggling to see why Southwark want to force these idiotic detours and journey extensions unequivocally raising pollution so much further. We have an electric car and there is bugger all charging or incentives to support this no brainier policy, surely that would be better than endless local plebiscites which people unilaterally declaring their streets as private rather than public domains.

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry into Champion Hill from Denmark Hill
Posted by sdrs February 23, 04:52PM

Good idea. I wonder if the reason the signage for the scheme is so poor is that Southwark donít want local people putting two and two together, understanding it is the new no entry from Champion Hill onto Denmark Hill that is causing this congestion with attendant bus delays and pollution in morning rush hour. The signage is so poor that a lot of motorists are still heading into Champion Hill unaware of the no right turn at the end until it is too late, they then find themselves performing U turns and in one case a few days ago a car was seen mounting and driving down the pavement to get down the newly forbidden leg of Champion Hill. None of this is being monitored by the Council who have not yet bothered to get cameras on down there! There have been reports of people driving down as far as Green Dale looking for an exit. The scheme is unnecessary, misguided and dangerous. Re feedback/consultation, a leaflet went to residents of Champion Hill and a few selected neighbouring streets prior to the online survey some months ago but Grove Lane, Camberwell Grove and the whole of the East Dulwich estate (bisected by a brand new rat run thanks to the closure) were all left out. The questionnaire was in any case a tokenistic exercise which the council said would have no effect on the trial going ahead since an experimental traffic order could be undertaken without consultation. Formal consultation is however promised after a six month period of monitoring.

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry into Champion Hill from Denmark Hill
Posted by sdrs February 23, 05:03PM

The project manager for the Champion Hill trial is Joanna Lesak:
joanna.lesak@southwark.gov.uk
She is the Councilís lead contact for feedback about the trial and its impacts. If writing to her, it is worth copying in Councillor Richard Livingstone who is our local Cabinet Member for Transport and Air Quality:
richard.livingstone@southwark.gov.uk
and the two Councillors for Champion Hill Ward
peter.john@southwark.gov.uk
sarah.king@southwark.gov.uk

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry into Champion Hill from Denmark Hill
Posted by rendelharris February 23, 07:48PM

sdrs Wrote:
None of this is being monitored by
> the Council who have not yet bothered to get
> cameras on down there!

There is a camera monitoring the junction, on the lampost on the left as you come from DKH - in fact I managed to stop a moped delivery guy yesterday as I cycled there going through the cycle lane, he was very cross until I pointed out I'd saved him a £80 fine, then he was very nice!

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry into Champion Hill from Denmark Hill
Posted by sdrs February 23, 11:12PM

Iím afraid the Deliveroo guyís intention to turn into Champion Hill and his outrage at being stopped by you perfectly illustrate my point about the inefficacy of the signage! I donít know if the particular camera you mention is operational, I would love to believe it is but nothing about this trial has been properly planned or implemented. The NO2 tubes demanded by residents to monitor the effects of the trial on air quality on Dog Kennel Hill, Grove Lane and Champion Park (three roads that constitute a major pedestrian route to local primary schools at the top and bottom of the hill) have yet to materialise. They should have been planned as a matter of course and in place before the trial began.

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry - Denmark Hill/Champion Hill
Posted by TheArtfulDogger February 24, 11:53AM

I'm curious , is Joanna Lesak the same lady who's project managing the CPZ projects ?

If so it doesn't give me any confidence😥

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry - Denmark Hill/Champion Hill
Posted by sdrs February 24, 11:55AM

Yes.

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry into Champion Hill from Denmark Hill
Posted by talfourdite February 24, 05:51PM

Bagpipes..
It strikes me that there simply hasn't been enough thought given to the consequences of the closure for surrounding streets. What residents deserve is some actual data on key issues:

-Officers should give residents of each road where traffic will be displaced an idea of the likely increase in traffic.
-Officers should notify the governing bodies of DKH primary and Lyndhurst primary of the likely effect of increased traffic/ pollution on children
-pollution levels should be tested on Grove Lane, Dog Kennel Hill before and during the trial period
-traffic volumes should be monitored on Grove Lane, DKH and compared before and during the trial period
-Officers should publish robust impact assessments of the trial.

I could not agree more.
Southwark seem to approach traffic management without the faintest idea what makes a properly managed, transparently run experiment, let alone understanding the connectivity of roads and neighbourhoods.
I am even more annoyed that there are no clear grounds for how and why they are spending our precious money on nor what are their (our) long term objectives. These ad-hoc ideas must cost hundreds of thousands, if not millions of pounds and are often so idiotic. I totally get that we need to reduce pollution and road use, but a rag tag campaign of road closures just makes traffic far worse and networks more overstressed. Electric charging points and lanes would do the opposite.
Can't we start a local party to run against Labour with local objectives rather than politically motivated ones?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was february 24, 05:53pm by talfourdite.

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry - Denmark Hill/Champion Hill
Posted by AylwardS February 25, 09:49PM

Iím not sure what more signage could be erected.. There are two signs on Dog Kennel Hill advising there is no access to Denmark Hill. If youíve been driving that way for years you probably donít look at the signs.

Here is the link to the webpage that I think was referred to in an earlier post, you will find the latest information from the Council including a questionnaire. What appears to be missing from the monitoring would appear to be the impact on pollution levels.

The next stages given on the Council website [consultations.southwark.gov.uk] are:
* February - Autumn 2019 (6-9 months): Monitoring period, including settling in period and monitoring surveys, and online feedback questionnaire/liaison with key stakeholders
* Late Autumn 2019: Results of monitoring analysed and presented and consultation on permanent feature
* Winter 2019/20: Decision making-†consultation report and recommendations
* Spring 2020: Make permanent/remove/modifications/mitigation (subject to statutory consultation)

What do we want to monitor?
During the trial we intend to monitor impact of the trial on the following:
* Road safety/traffic dominance on Champion Hill
* Road safety/traffic dominance around Dog Kennel Hill Primary School
* Road safety at the raised table in Champion†Hill
* Access needs for local residents
* Traffic displacement onto adjacent residential roads
* Traffic on Dog Kennel Hill, Grove Lane, Champion Park and Denmark Hill†
Iíve only scanned it but there is a report on next steps which includes info on monitoring and what is expected from the trial. Tie back your feedback to this and show youíve considered their objectives and the local impact. [consultations.southwark.gov.uk]

Maybe a bit early to respond on traffic impact - I saw new dates for the works at Denmark Hill / Camberwell Green on the way to Denmark Hill today so the increase in traffic might not just be down to the change on Champion Hill, or could be dismissed on those grounds. Maybe use the Councils monitoring form now and when the works finish / weather improves and on the same day / time later in the trial and use that evidence in your response.

Maybe there is merit in a part time closure and monitoring can support that? There are areas that are pedestrianised some of the time and open to traffic others. Would something like that work? It would be wonderful to be able to walk to work / school / the shops but thatís not where we are at and something needs to be done to tackle the situation. This may not be the answer but something has to change I think most would agree

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry - Denmark Hill/Champion Hill
Posted by BellendenBear February 25, 10:30PM

The impact on traffic and pollution for other roads needs to be considered more widely than just the South to North flow from DKH, Grove Lane to Denmark Hill. Champion Hill was also how traffic flowed from East to West from Grove Hill Road, Camberwell Grove and surrounding streets. As has been previously described, the closure of Champion Hill combined with no right turn by DKH school, means that traffic has to use Bromar, Ivanhoe, Pytchley and Quorn roads to turn right onto DKH. These are all residential roads, much narrower than Champion Hill and used by lots of children to get to DKH, Goose Green and Bessemer schools. If James Barber or one of the other residents of Champion Hill can suggest a different way of making this journey Iíd be very grateful.

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry - Denmark Hill/Champion Hill
Posted by Cardelia February 26, 10:31AM

AylwardS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Iím not sure what more signage could be erected..
> There are two signs on Dog Kennel Hill advising
> there is no access to Denmark Hill. If youíve been
> driving that way for years you probably donít look
> at the signs.

There are two high-up, tiny yellow signs with small writing on Dog Kennel Hill. One of which, when I saw it yesterday morning, had been turned at an angle so that it was difficult to see from the road when heading up DKH. There are no signs informing drivers that Champion Hill is a dead end until you're actually on Champion Hill itself. There are certainly no large signs with big writing on DKH telling drivers that there has been a change in access rights.

Oh, and whilst I'm thinking about it, a couple of traffic datapoints. Yesterday morning around 8:25 East Dulwich Grove (heading towards Herne Hill) was jammed back as far as the junction with Melbourne. 10 minutes later, Windsor Walk/Grove Lane was jammed all the way back to the top of the hill. This morning around 8:25, EDG was jammed as far as I could see - probably all the way back to the junction with Lordship. Buses going the other way were also being held up because it was difficult to squeeze past the long line of stationary traffic at certain narrow points on the road.

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry - Denmark Hill/Champion Hill
Posted by Beulah February 26, 10:50AM

I agree the signage needs improving. It should be made clear it's now effectively a dead end one-way. "No access to Denmark Hill" isn't enough IMO.
I read this thread prior to it coming into force and it still caught me out the first day I tried it!

However I personally think it's a positive move and would like to see more residential roads made more pleasant for the people that live there by reducing through traffic.
And yes I own a car and drive.

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry - Denmark Hill/Champion Hill
Posted by sdrs February 26, 11:15AM

Grove Lane, while a main road, is ALSO a residential road and a major pedestrian route to local schools, bus stops and stations. The congestion caused by displaced traffic as a direct result of this trial is driving pollution up to dangerous levels. My kids and many others have to breathe it in on their way to school every morning. Bromar and Pytchley Roads likewise are residential. As others have observed, they are much less able to cope with the traffic than Champion Hill was. Dog Kennel Hill is not only densely residential but is where the main Pupil Entrance to the primary school is located. I fail to see how excluding traffic from what was already the healthiest and safest street in the area to make all these streets (and others, from what Iíve been reading) so unhealthy, unpleasant and unsafe, and delay northbound buses in morning rush hour into the bargain, is in any way a positive move.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was february 26, 11:16am by sdrs.

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry - Denmark Hill/Champion Hillattachment
Posted by sdrs February 26, 11:29AM

Grove Lane at 8.26am today. Healthier streets, really? Good luck to the people trying to get anywhere on time in those buses.

Attachments: 1AF24321-6958-4C55-B463-7271BFE19766.jpeg (153.9KB)  
messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry - Denmark Hill/Champion Hill
Posted by nxjen February 26, 01:01PM

Good luck indeed to any people trying to get anywhere on the bus coming towards the camera as itís Out of Service

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry - Denmark Hill/Champion Hill
Posted by sdrs February 26, 01:34PM

The northbound buses queueing on Grove Lane and Champion Park to access Denmark Hill were, however, very much in service! I recently had to attend a medical appointment at Kings using the 185 and found the journey time had more than doubled since the no entry trial began. Neighbours have reported the same.

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry - Denmark Hill/Champion Hill
Posted by sdrs February 26, 07:47PM

Here is a link to a Southwark Council online consultation form inviting comments on the no entry trial, which apparently went live on 7th February, unbeknownst to local residents, who yet again, were not notified.

[consultations.southwark.gov.uk]

This closes on 30th September 2019.

Please take the time to complete this if youíve experienced or are experiencing increased congestion and pollution, road safety issues, and/ or bus delays etc, as a result of the no entry trial. If the survey will let you, it is worth attaching photographic evidence to illustrate your concerns.

It is becoming clear that the effects of the trial are far-reaching and are being felt as far south as Melbourne Grove and East Dulwich Grove, on the main bus and pedestrian route to East Dulwich secondary schools, as well as on the hillís pedestrian routes to Goose Green, Dog Kennel Hill School, Lyndhurst School and Denmark Hill station.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was february 26, 07:49pm by sdrs.

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry - Denmark Hill/Champion Hill
Posted by rupert james February 28, 02:00PM

For anyone interested The Southwark News has published information regarding pollution in Southwark.

It appears that Champion Hill did not have problems when the research was undertaken by Friends of the Earth.

What research did Southwark base it action on.

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry - Denmark Hill/Champion Hill
Posted by sdrs February 28, 07:27PM

Youíre right, it didnít. There is no evidence that NO2 levels were above EU limits on Champion Hill - nothing to justify driving them up (quite possibly above EU limits) across the wider, surrounding area as the no entry trial is clearly doing. Even more shocking, the Council which promised comprehensive air quality monitoring for the scheme made no provision for NO2 tubes on the roads that would take the displaced traffic. Under duress and pressure from residents (because these are residential roads!, they have promised to instal some in March but too late for baseline readings.

Hereís a link to that Southwark News article

[www.southwarknews.co.uk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was february 28, 07:36pm by sdrs.

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry - Denmark Hill/Champion Hill
Posted by Bagpipes February 28, 07:45PM

I honestly cannot understand how Southwark can proceed with this without a proper evidence base - either that Champion Hill needs improvement or surrounding streets, esp Dog Kennel Hill / Grove Lane will not experience harm.

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry - Denmark Hill/Champion Hill
Posted by bels123 March 01, 02:32PM

Southwark Council report their own air quality monitoring results. For 2017 there are many more than the 44 sites on the Southwark News report breaching the limit.

[www.southwark.gov.uk]

You have to download the spreadsheet. Not sure if any Champion Hill roads included here?

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry - Denmark Hill/Champion Hill
Posted by goldilocks March 01, 02:49PM

From looking at the spreadsheet it seems that the closest monitoring to Champion hill are sited on Camberwell Grove or De Crespigny Park - neither of which are particularly close by or comparable. Surprisingly can't see anything for Dog Kennel Hill School but maybe its listed under a side road?

messageRe: Southwark Consultation on no entry - Denmark Hill/Champion Hill
Posted by James Barber March 01, 09:14PM

I thought this closure was about reducing traffic levels to make it safer to cycle along this section of London Cycle Network route no.23 and walk cycle Safe Routes To School. The E-W section of Champion Hill has narrow pavements, had A road levels of traffic, and no parked car to protect people from drivers.

The air pollution is curious. Focus seems to be on NO2 levels but the research shows PM2.5's and below being the critical health factor with no safe levels.

--------------------
Regards jamesvbarber@gmail.com
former Liberal Democrat Councillor for East Dulwich Ward (2006-2018)
[www.jamesbarber.org.uk]
[twitter.com]

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