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messageSouthwark Council Transport Planning Consultation
Posted by nxjen 21 November, 2018 11:24

Southwark Council have launched a Consultation for a “Movement Plan” that will set the direction for transport planning within the borough for the next 20 years. They have devised an online survey for completion.

[consultations.southwark.gov.uk]

messageRe: Southwark Council Transport Planning Consultation
Posted by rollflick 22 November, 2018 15:51

Thing is, it's not actually a consultation asking your views about the movement plan.

Instead it's an incredibly fiddly survey about travel habits and much more, asking you stuff like why do you like your neighbourhood, which neighbourhood you most identify with. After seeing there were over 50 questions on page 2 (and nine more pages to go) I gave up it was so bad. It's hardly going to get a representative sample of people responding. There's no consultation at all about the implementation plan, which includes things will provoke Marmite reactions for certain EDF contributors.

By contrast other councils like neighbouring Lambeth and City are actually consulting on their plans, asking you to rate your degree of support for each main policies, genuinely engaging with local people and seeking feedback.

How could Southwark get consultation quite so wrong?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2018:11:22:15:52:10 by rollflick.

messageRe: Southwark Council Transport Planning Consultation
Posted by nxjen 22 November, 2018 16:05

I thought that Southwark was consulting with residents BEFORE drawing up their plans which seems a sensible way to proceed. The survey isn’t that fiddly and does give residents a chance to have their say, which judging by the amount of threads on EDF about public transport, would be welcome.

ETA Just seen there is a Draft Movement Plan
[consultations.southwark.gov.uk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2018:11:22:16:27:28 by nxjen.

messageRe: Southwark Council Transport Planning Consultation
Posted by Townleygreen 22 November, 2018 16:21

I didn't find it took long to complete at all!

messageRe: Southwark Council Transport Planning Consultation
Posted by Siduhe 22 November, 2018 17:29

Good reminder to say thanks to nxjen for posting - I didn't find it too difficult to complete and I read the purpose as a "give us your priorities so that we can develop a plan that you can then comment on".

There is a clear statement in there about Southwark's intentions to reduce car journeys across the borough which has impacts for car owners as we've discussed on here loads of times, and there was a good blank space to give input about how Southwark should approach the planning.

For what it's worth, I took a leaf out of the James Barber playbook and gave chapter and verse about how there are very different environments in Southwark and a single plan which applies equally to E&C and Dulwich isn't the best way to achieve their objectives. Who knows if they will listen but the more people who contribute, the more chance there is the plans take account of what we need in ED.

messageRe: Southwark Council Transport Planning Consultation
Posted by spider69 22 November, 2018 17:52

I suspect that Southwark has already decided what will happen and this consultation is just a bit of window dressing.

They consulted on our CPZ, what we requested as a majority was completely ignored and they did what they wanted.

messageRe: Southwark Council Transport Planning Consultation
Posted by se22cat 22 November, 2018 23:24

The only "movement plan" Southwark council are interested in is the movement of funds from construction/highway maintenance company bungs into the hands/obfuscated bank accounts of those at the top of the planning departments, that's a commonly known fact.

messageRe: Southwark Council Transport Planning Consultation
Posted by rollflick 23 November, 2018 09:11

nxjen - this type of survey could have made sense in the summer when Southwark was drawing up this draft.

Now that there is a draft there should have been a consultation asking for views on it, see for example Lambeth's, which may be of interest for those living close to or travelling across the borough boundary:
[www.lambeth.gov.uk]
Without those sorts of questions, you can't gauge public support for policies, e.g. saying X% liked this. Or are you saying the approach of other boroughs is wrong?

And while Lambeth is consulting on its implementation plan (LIP3), Southwark doesn't even mention it let alone ask for views. That's the bit that contains the policies on CPZs for instance.

Siduhe - you're right, Southwark does vary the further you get from central London, maybe the policies or targets could be differentiated depending on whether you're within inner ring road, south circular etc. or TfL fare zones.

messageRe: Southwark Council Transport Planning Consultation
Posted by BrandNewGuy 23 November, 2018 10:42

spider69 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I suspect that Southwark has already decided what
> will happen and this consultation is just a bit of
> window dressing.
>
> They consulted on our CPZ, what we requested as a
> majority was completely ignored and they did what
> they wanted.

Well, the proposed Grove Vale CPZ six years ago was rejected by local residents despite the council being strongly in favour, so there's hope for local decision-making. Or at least there was then.

messageRe: Southwark Council Transport Planning Consultation
Posted by Mscrawthew 24 November, 2018 10:50

I have just tried to complete the survey and unable to score anymore than a one or two for the first section. Three to Five are not highlighted and therefore unable to be chosen!

messageRe: Southwark Council Transport Planning Consultation
Posted by goosey-goosey 24 November, 2018 16:07

I also can't select all of the options in the survey. I've asked Southwark to correct this and let me know when they've done so. I'll report back when (or if, more like) I hear back.

messageRe: Southwark Council Transport Planning Consultation
Posted by urbanfox 26 November, 2018 12:40

You are only allowed to pick your top 5 from the whole list and then score those 5. It's an incredibly badly designed survey and very poorly put together! I'd imagine many people will abandon the survey before completing it.

messageRe: Southwark Council Transport Planning Consultation
Posted by Mscrawthew 26 November, 2018 16:15

Badly designed for their benefit probably!

messageRe: Southwark Council Transport Planning Consultation
Posted by rahrahrah 26 November, 2018 16:44

I would like some of the things that exist in North, East, West, Soutwest and Central London. Namely, some tube stations, boris bikes, a segregated superhighway.

Barring that, just a secure indoor bike park at Brixton tube (Like the one in Finsbury park), or some reliable trains run in the interests of Londoners and not for Kent commuters.

Or barring that, some attempt to at least maintain the current bus services.

Or barring that, just less interference with the remaining option of private transport.

(but I suspect we get lot's of interference with the latter and none of the former)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2018:11:26:16:52:25 by rahrahrah.

messageRe: Southwark Council Transport Planning Consultation
Posted by Angharad_L 04 December, 2018 18:16

I found it easy to complete, but I work in digital.

The main thing I'd appreciate them focussing on is reducing the speed of drivers around the area. It's incredibly dangerous driving with lots of cars going far too fast.

messageRe: Southwark Council Transport Planning Consultation
Posted by rollflick May 03, 09:35AM

Southwark's Cabinet approved the Movement Plan and Local Implementation Plan 3 (LIP3), which set out policies and proposals for transport, streets and parking, this Tuesday: [moderngov.southwark.gov.uk] (item 16)

Though there have been a few positive tweaks, it is incredibly weak on important issues like climate change (driving a juggernaut through the recent council climate emergency motion to make Southwark carbon neutral by 2030), road safety (totally vague and sweeps under carpet fact that progress has stalled since 2013), air pollution (so bad the chart has been taken out of the annual monitoring report) and active travel (just £200k for a cycling network compared to the £20m promised in 2015). The consultation did reveal that 77% of respondents wanted less motor traffic on Southwark's streets. This is entirely consistent with other data such as Southwark's Big Conversation, those in neighbouring boroughs and Londonwide, and not surprising given the council's continued failings to deliver.

The LIP3 contains the CPZ policy but was not originally part of the consultation (see above in this thread). As a result of my complaint the council was required by law to consult on it, the draft LIP3 was added to the movement plan consultation page. While the 2011 Transport Plan proposed CPZs only where supported by residents (primarily as a means to reduce traffic rather than reserving parking for residents), the LIP3 commits Southwark to delivering "a whole borough CPZ". Southwark was required by law to approve and deliver on a LIP3 that complies with the Mayor's Transport Strategy, a key element of which is to reduce traffic. Southwark failed to put in credible or specific traffic and pollution reduction proposals (such as bus & cycle gates, local congestion charges etc.) so it was left with little option but to commit to a whole borough CPZ.

When Cllr Livingstone (Cabinet member for transport) comes to decide on the ED & PW CPZs, he's required by law to make the decision on the basis of Londonwide and borough policy, as I explained at last Saturday's chaotic meeting. People responding to those consultations and speaking at the meeting were focused on commuter parking issues and whether their street wanted a CPZ or not to deal with them, rather than the wider legal requirements or issues, including the clear desire of people across the borough to cut traffic. The CPZ consultation exercise failed to explain the borough's policy, constraints etc. on this decision so failed to give people a chance to make informed comment.

Wherever you stand on CPZs, it's undeniable the whole process has been a complete farce. The council - both councillors and officials - need to accept outside help to totally overhaul they engage.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was may 03, 09:36am by rollflick.

messageRe: Southwark Council Transport Planning Consultation
Posted by first mate May 03, 10:31AM

Rollflick, does this mean Cllr Livingstone is very likely to impose the fuller version of CPZ ( as proposed in the council report) despite Ward Cllr recommendations to make it smaller? If that is the case, wouldn't Ward Cllrs have known all along what Cllr Livingstone's legal obligations are and therefore the likely outcome?

Perhaps I have misunderstood, but if the above is the case there has been misrepresentation on a grand scale.

messageRe: Southwark Council Transport Planning Consultation
Posted by Penguin68 May 03, 10:40AM

Perhaps I have misunderstood, but if the above is the case there has been misrepresentation on a grand scale.

So no surprises there...

messageRe: Southwark Council Transport Planning Consultation
Posted by rollflick May 03, 11:04AM

My best guess is that in terms of the council, the Highways and the Transport planning teams haven't been talking to each other (their names are nearly at the opposite ends of the alphabet after all) and people have been stuck in their respective silos rather than joining up the dots. The new Londonwide "Healthy Streets" policy was described as a radical shift by the Mayor: the council however seems to treat it like a rebranding exercise.

The ward councillors really do not seem familiar with council parking policy, the law on consultations, etc. As for Cllr Livingstone, it's a bit like May trying to deliver B***it: he's made multiple commitments that conflict with each other.

messageRe: Southwark Council Transport Planning Consultation
Posted by worldwiser May 03, 11:17AM

I wish Southwark would just carry out their plans, whatever they are, rather than engaging in a pathetic, illusory consultation to make people think we're being listened to. We now know that whatever results emerge, they will be repackaged and revised to suit.

At least we could be certain of one thing that less of our money is being frittered away on overpriced consultants.

messageRe: Southwark Council Transport Planning Consultation
Posted by first mate May 03, 12:53PM

Thanks Rollflick, I am trying to marry your revelations with the following assertions made by Cllr McAsh:

"Over the summer discussion about a potential consultation began on here. I made it clear in September that the CPZ consultation was not all-or-nothing and that if it were supported in one section of the area but not in others then it could be implemented in just that section.
- This winter the consultation launched, and the key question asked residents if they want a CPZ on their road. It was not an all-or-nothing referendum on whether to implement a CPZ across the whole area, it was a consultation to identify whether or not there are streets which want one.
- In January I pledged on here, and with the support of the leader of the Council, Cllr Peter John, that there were three potential outcomes: full implementation across the consultation area, full rejection across the consultation area, or partial implementation in just a subsection of the consultation area where there is majority support.
- In April the interim reports of the consultations were released, each with a recommendation from officers for how to proceed."

messageRe: Southwark Council Transport Planning Consultation
Posted by mynamehere May 03, 07:05PM

fill in this consultation, it's about safety and pedestrians and drivers and cyclists

[www.southwark.gov.uk]

messageRe: Southwark Council Transport Planning Consultation
Posted by first mate May 04, 12:41PM

Southwark cyclists are actively pushing for reduced parking and all day CPZ in ED - see [groups.google.com]


"I've just filled in both consultations. They use Southwark's new standard format for CPZ consultations, which is a little awkward in places to fill in if you're not a resident, but definitely is not designed to exclude non-residents.

You just need to:
Say you are "Visitor to the area"
Select "Other" as your street
And skip one or two non required questions about "your street"
I would encourage Southwark Cyclists to fill these in. They're quick, and we can help reduce car traffic to these areas by saying that we're in favour of the CPZ, and it operating all day Mon-Sat, instead of a more limited scheme.

There's also some questions about exactly where new bike parking should be installed which some of you may be better placed to make intelligent critique of the council's choices and/or propose alternative locations.

Finally, there's a question about extending the bus lane hours of operation on Lordship Lane (in the East Dulwich consultation). Obviously bus lanes aren't the best way of keeping cyclists safe, but I''d suggest nevertheless that we push for that to be extended as much as possible, as it's still some protection."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was may 04, 12:46pm by first mate.


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