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messageDog Kennel Hill CPZ
Posted by Ashlar 03 December, 2018 14:00

Does anyone know when the DKH CPZ is going to start? I live on Quorn Road and we have the parking bays drawn out and the signs are up, albeit covered in black plastic, but no notice of when it will start. I tried calling Southwark Parking, who claimed not to know anything about a CPZ and suggested I was imagining it! I then spoke with APCOA who confirmed it’s real but had no information on when it would start. I then got a call back from Southwark Parking to say there was a CPZ but no one knows when it will start!!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2018:12:03:14:03:16 by Ashlar.

messageRe: Dog Kennel Hill CPZ
Posted by Zig-Zag 03 December, 2018 14:57

As usual both organisations treating the paying public with utter contempt. Maybe make a formal complaint which probably won't make any difference but at least gets logged as yet another complaint against an appalling council

messageRe: Dog Kennel Hill CPZ
Posted by Sally Eva 03 December, 2018 15:04

I should contact your councillor

messageRe: Dog Kennel Hill CPZ
Posted by sally buying 03 December, 2018 16:28

It starts on the 17th December 2018.

What we have found by looking at the covered signs is the revelation that if you were expecting a CPZ between the hours of 11-1, whereby cars have to remove themselves discouraging commuters etc, in our neck of the woods the signs show park and pay for the above hours.

This is on a road with parking problems due to all the surround roads being all day parking pushing cars onto our road.

Nothing will change you will still not be able to find parking if you leave your house/road parking space and you will have to pay for annual parking.

The only winner will be Southwark who will rake money in on fixed costs from residents.

We did ask how do you know if people have paid either for resident parking or paid parking now that everything is electronic and no permits are showing, the answer we are using hand held computers.

So every day will Southwark patrol the all streets between the above hours to find who has not paid or do not have a permit. As a resident you will not be able to see and report. I dont think so.

More yellow lines mean less parking.

messageRe: Dog Kennel Hill CPZ
Posted by Penguin68 03 December, 2018 17:12

CPZs have never been about benefiting the people who live in them – they have always been about traffic manipulation – and in particular and overtly in Southwark’s case – a desire to substantially reduce car ownership and car usage within Southwark (for which there are some arguments, particularly for older, and dirtier, vehicles).

Additionally CPZs are seen as revenue generators ostensibly to improve public transport – although we know that this has actually been worsened in our neck of the woods, with reduced bus frequencies, re-routing buses away from where we want to go, a refusal to extend the tube into the old Camberwell Borough etc.

‘Benefit’ to local people is prayed-in-aid merely to get sign-up – the fact that all new CPZs reduce the amount of parking within the zone should surely be enough to bell that particular cat? Southwark is relying on individuals ‘voting’ (and in a street of a 100 houses if 2 residents vote for and only one against that is enough) because they believe they will be able always to park outside their house. Generally (and with some exceptions) ‘in your dreams’.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2018:12:04:10:17:47 by Penguin68.

messageRe: Dog Kennel Hill CPZ
Posted by MarkT 04 December, 2018 00:47

sally buying comments: "if you were expecting a CPZ between the hours of 11-1, whereby cars have to remove themselves discouraging commuters etc, in our neck of the woods the signs show park and pay for the above hours."

The concept of CPZ certainly includes both resident/visitor parking and pay by the hour arrangements, but were people who voted for the Dog Kennel Hill CPZ expecting park and pay to be included in that area? Were they misled by the Council.

You raise an interesting point. Previous park and pay systems - parking meters and pay and display - required the presence of the driver at the time of payment. A two hour charged period in the middle of the day could therefore be employed to thwart commuters. With phone payment, a commuter can park all day and make the payment remotely at the start of the charged period.

messageRe: Dog Kennel Hill CPZ
Posted by edanna 04 December, 2018 07:02

Yes people will be able to pay remotely but it will probably be a big deterrent for many people who would have left their car all day. The difference in number of parked cars over at Basingdon Way near Sunray Avenue has been very noticeable since a 2-hour parking restriction was introduced. It would cost about £6.80 a day to leave your car there. So it all depends on who is parking there and why. If it’s mainly commuters it could make a big difference. But it may not change other types of parking. Where we live people park for shorter visits to shops and restaurants so I can envisage still having parking pressure either side of a two-hour period if that were introduced on our street.

messageRe: Dog Kennel Hill CPZ
Posted by jimlad48 04 December, 2018 09:41

The pay and display bays are a small number of the overall bays (e.g. most streets will have a couple). There is a maximum stay per vehicle of about 4 hours per day usually. you cannot park all day.

We went to a CPZ last year and overnight went from being a drastically overcrowded area to a street where parking utilisation is rarely more than 50-60% of the spaces available. The only time we see pressure is at the weekend when the restrictions dont apply - funny that!

Stand by for your parking life to become unbelievably better soon.

messageRe: Dog Kennel Hill CPZ
Posted by Penguin68 04 December, 2018 10:03

Stand by for your parking life to become unbelievably better soon.

That will only be true if in your street, the average number of cars per household is less than the number of houses outside which you can park (once reductions in parking space always associated with CPZs are taken into account). For some streets that will be beneficial (certainly mainly those ones without multiple occupancy). For others it will not! It will also depend how big your CPZ zone is - a large zone will bring those not your immediate neighbours into your street (potentially) - a small zone when you are surrounded by other small zones means that if you cannot park in your street you may have to go some considerable way before you find somewhere you can park.

I noticed in Ondine Road, for instance, quite close to ED station that daytime parking was relatively easy - it was at night when everyone was back at home that I couldn't park up to visit a friend. There (and then) the average car per household was over 1. I don't know what it now is.

messageRe: Dog Kennel Hill CPZ
Posted by rupert james 04 December, 2018 10:14

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think your area was the "toastrack". You asked for and got a full day CPZ. You have not experienced the 11-1 CPZ so you do not have that personnel experience to comment. We are across the railway line to you, We asked for by a majority for a full CPZ and got 11-1. All roads surrounding us are full days.

£6.80an hour if you are a highly paid worker in the city is peanuts.

Our parking situation I believe will not change. You say a small number of bays, yesterday I watched them put park and pay signs on both sides of our road whilst the road that we butt onto is resident parking only no pay and display.

It depends on who you Cllrs is on matters like this. I have no faith in our Cllr to fight our corner.

Who do you think will get the parking.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit was 2018:12:04:10:49:46 by rupert james.

messageRe: Dog Kennel Hill CPZ
Posted by Charles Notice 04 December, 2018 17:28

jimlad48 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The pay and display bays are a small number of the
> overall bays (e.g. most streets will have a
> couple). There is a maximum stay per vehicle of
> about 4 hours per day usually. you cannot park all
> day.
>
> We went to a CPZ last year and overnight went from
> being a drastically overcrowded area to a street
> where parking utilisation is rarely more than
> 50-60% of the spaces available. The only time we
> see pressure is at the weekend when the
> restrictions dont apply - funny that!
>
> Stand by for your parking life to become
> unbelievably better soon.

With regard to your comment, on my daily walk this morning I started to take notice of all the new CPZ signs going up for DKH CPZ in those areas that are not an all day CPZ.

On walking up lower Chadwick Road from the Rye Lane car park, which is an all day CPZ, then crossing to

Chadwick Road up towards Grove Park, the whole North side is going to be a 11-1 CPZ with park and pay signs and at the top both sides of the bridge will be a park and pay CPZ.

The Southside is showing a resident only parking CPZ 11-1. So one could say the above has reduced true resident only parking by 50%.

On going through Grove Park it is resident CPZ parking. So it would seem Southwark is targeting those roads who do not have a vocal and powerful resident base to resist to turn these into a money machine. Grove Park joins Camberwell Grove which is an all day CPZ.

Walking further these pay and park areas seem to be everywhere.

How many residents that are in for example Chadwick Road and other roads that are in the DKH CPZ are aware of these new parking rules.

Perhaps people like me when they walk should take a look at the signs that are going up in the DKH CPZ, you could be in for a big and not wanted surprise.

I wonder why Southwark is only allowing 11-1 CPZ's regardless of what people want and voted for or what they thought they voted for.

Unless people have to physically remove cars between 11-1 I cannot see resident benefit. I thought 11-1 CPZ's were proposed to achieve this and free up resident parking.

Will Southwark be policing and checking every road for payment and for parking permits as no paper permit is visible?

Dont believe in what you thought you had voted for.

messageRe: Dog Kennel Hill CPZ
Posted by jimlad48 05 December, 2018 09:28

Its worth noting that if you have a 'pay and display' bay in your street, and you have a permit, you can park in these bays. They are intended for use by both residents and visitors - but there is nothing to stop you parking in them if you want without charge.

messageRe: Dog Kennel Hill CPZ
Posted by Ashlar 18 December, 2018 00:34

Just a quick update. Despite having received zero communications from the council, the CPZ went live today as the earlier poster, Sally, suggested it would. However, not only can people pay to park between 11-1, they can also telephone to pay!! So much for dissuading commuters. This is so underhanded I can barely believe it. Surely the whole point it to make sure the cars are moved between 11-1? I really do despair

messageRe: Dog Kennel Hill CPZ
Posted by sally buying 18 December, 2018 08:51

Also, although the CPZ went live on the 17th, a traffic warden told us that they will not be enforcing fines for the next 2 weeks to allow people to be aware. Only handing out warning notices regarding the CPZ. Joke

Also why did we/residents have to purchase a permit by the 17th `December and they allow the above.

If what the Council people told me pay and park is only £2.70 an hour. That will really deter people. In effect all day parking for £5.40 a day. Residents will not be any better off.

Our road yesterday was no different, jammed packed all day. Go away and your parking space has gone until 11pm the next morning.

It is interesting that when these points where put to the Council they never reply. In fact Matthew Hill who I believe was responsible for the CPZ has left the Council.

Well and truly legged over.

messageRe: Dog Kennel Hill CPZ
Posted by micromacromonkey 18 December, 2018 09:29

How do we get Copleston Road added to this CPZ? Can't park anywhere now.

messageRe: Dog Kennel Hill CPZ
Posted by Siduhe 18 December, 2018 11:13

The idea that Southwark introduces a CPZ but then allows people to pay via telephone for the 2 hour restricted period doesn't make any sense if the aim is to limit parking by non-residents/commuters. That really does feel like revenue raising rather than street management. How do they justify the decision to allow pay and park by telephone?

messageRe: Dog Kennel Hill CPZ
Posted by rahrahrah 18 December, 2018 12:03

The idea of limiting parking by 'non-residents' doesn't make any sense full stop. The idea that lot's of people are driving in from outside the area in order to use our wonderful public transport connections is also rather unproven.

messageRe: Dog Kennel Hill CPZ
Posted by Penguin68 18 December, 2018 12:18

Just remember, when Southwark proposes introducing a CPZ it has nothing to do with benefits to local residents - it's about revenue generation and about working to make car ownership as uncomfortable as they can for residents. They believe (I am sure sincerely) that life would be better if private cars were removed from the borough and we all relied on walking, cycling or public transport to get places. I am all in favour of people who are fit and well and fearless to cycle up and down our hills, or walk up and down, but if the whole population (those with children, who are elderly or infirm or risk averse (cycling) or who have loads to carry are to be catered for, then public transport has to be better, more frequent, go to places we need to go to, run through the night... the apparat in the flat north of the borough, very well served by public transport (they have tubes, for goodness sake) sometime forget what it's like in hilly Old Camberwell (or, more likely, frankly don't care).

messageRe: Dog Kennel Hill CPZ
Posted by richard tudor 18 December, 2018 12:27

"As today is the first day of the DKH CPZ, can you confirm, as per your email below, parking will be enforced with the hand held computers to detect all non paying cars. Parking and permit holders?
Second, We have just been told that the on street pay parking is £2.70 an hour, hardly likely to deter commuters to the city.
I have just seen a Zip car just park on a resident only bay when told it was resident parking he said "so what"and said I am leaving the car here and walked off
Will it get a ticket?
How long will that car stay there
Top of the hill before the railway bridge on Chadwick Road
I look forward to receiving your response".

In response to this question below is the answer, Be under no illusion Southwark wants private cars off the road and a CPZ is taking us towards that aim.

Good morning Mr Tudor,
Thank you for your email. Parking enforcement started yesterday for the new Dog Kennel Hill parking zone.
On street parking in a section of Chadwick Road is £2.70 per hour. As stated, most of the kerbside space across the whole of the zone is for permit holders only and thus cannot be used by commuters.
The council is actively supporting car clubs as an alternative to car ownership, every car club vehicle removes the need for our residents to own a car or own a second car. Zip Car and DriveNow have a contract with Southwark Council and they have purchased virtual permits for their vehicle fleet which allows them to park in any permitted parking bay in Southwark. Therefore this vehicle is not parked illegally and is parked where it is permitted.
Kind regards
Joanna Redshaw

The Southside of Chadwick Road has resident permits CPR 11-1 ,the Northside is park and pay. So park up on Northside residents/commuter bays and ring up at 11am and pay to allow all day parking.

Also commercial company vehicles just pay for a blanket permit and can just take residents spaces.

Not what residents thought they were getting

'As stated, most of the kerbside space across the whole of the zone is for permit holders only and thus cannot be used by commuters."

As another poster mentioned take a look at the signs now up and you will be in for a surprise, park and pay.

messageRe: Dog Kennel Hill CPZ
Posted by sally buying 18 December, 2018 18:24

How many other private deals with Southwark have been made that residents have no idea of, which means when Southwark offer up a consultation it has to meet and consider conditions that have agreed before hand without anybody/residents being aware off.

Situation to consider as listed above Zipcar need a depot/area to consolidate cars, they have a permit, park all these cars in one street/s legally according to Southwark, what do residents do?

As a resident and Council Tax payer I would like to know what else is out there that we do not know about and could effect my existence.

messageRe: Dog Kennel Hill CPZ
Posted by rollflick 19 December, 2018 19:25

The CPZ has very noticeably freed up space on the Grove Hill Road side of the hill - but the streets just outside are now rammed. It took 18 months from consultation (incidentally which was clear about the pay bays) to going live. Does that mean those of us next to it could have to wait until July 2020 for the totally obvious knock-on effects to be tackled, even if the consultation for an ED & West Peckham CPZ happens soon?

Southwark has very limited CPZ coverage compared to other inner London boroughs. With the commencement of the Ultra Low Emission Zone in April 2019, our streets will become the dumping zone for those who don't want to pay 24/7 £12.50 daily charge as we're the nearest free parking to central London. It's bad enough already with all the abandoned taxis. No one in the council seems to have thought about this though.

At least Zipcar offer residents a handy way to avoid the ULEZ charge, such as if you need to pick something up, and the money they pay for their permits goes to road repairs etc. It's great they're giving people the option of electric cars without the cost of buying them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2018:12:19:19:26:21 by rollflick.

messageRe: Dog Kennel Hill CPZ
Posted by alex_b 20 December, 2018 07:22

rollflick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> At least Zipcar offer residents a handy way to
> avoid the ULEZ charge, such as if you need to pick
> something up, and the money they pay for their
> permits goes to road repairs etc. It's great
> they're giving people the option of electric cars
> without the cost of buying them.


Electric Zipcars? I thought they were all small engine diesel VW Golfs?

messageRe: Dog Kennel Hill CPZ
Posted by Soylent Green 20 December, 2018 10:06

I noted the comment from the Copleston resident. We are adjacent and are finding the same. It is not just commuters cars which are packing our streets, but people from the CPZ are who do not want to buy a permit and do not use their cars very often! Why doesn't the council see that a CPZ has to cover a full district, not just a couple of streets?

messageRe: Dog Kennel Hill CPZ
Posted by bels123 20 December, 2018 10:38

alex_b Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> rollflick Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > At least Zipcar offer residents a handy way to
> > avoid the ULEZ charge, such as if you need to
> pick
> > something up, and the money they pay for their
> > permits goes to road repairs etc. It's great
> > they're giving people the option of electric
> cars
> > without the cost of buying them.
>
>
> Electric Zipcars? I thought they were all small
> engine diesel VW Golfs?

Electric one parked on Melbourne Grove today.

messageRe: Dog Kennel Hill CPZ
Posted by johnie 20 December, 2018 11:35

rollflick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The CPZ has very noticeably freed up space on the
> Grove Hill Road side of the hill - but the streets
> just outside are now rammed. It took 18 months
> from consultation (incidentally which was clear
> about the pay bays) to going live. Does that mean
> those of us next to it could have to wait until
> July 2020 for the totally obvious knock-on effects
> to be tackled, even if the consultation for an ED
> & West Peckham CPZ happens soon?
>
> Southwark has very limited CPZ coverage compared
> to other inner London boroughs. With the
> commencement of the Ultra Low Emission Zone in
> April 2019, our streets will become the dumping
> zone for those who don't want to pay 24/7 £12.50
> daily charge as we're the nearest free parking to
> central London. It's bad enough already with all
> the abandoned taxis. No one in the council seems
> to have thought about this though.
>
> At least Zipcar offer residents a handy way to
> avoid the ULEZ charge, such as if you need to pick
> something up, and the money they pay for their
> permits goes to road repairs etc. It's great
> they're giving people the option of electric cars
> without the cost of buying them.

I thought, as the whole of East Dulwich is within the south circular, we will be in the ULEZ, so I don't think we will be the dumping zone, that would be Forest Hill.

messageRe: Dog Kennel Hill CPZ
Posted by Charles Notice 20 December, 2018 12:25

Lets hope common sense prevails and the ULEZ remains within the congestion charge area only and not within the whole of the North/South Circulars.

It appears many people are not aware.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2018:12:20:15:39:24 by Charles Notice.

messageRe: Dog Kennel Hill CPZ
Posted by alex_b 20 December, 2018 12:43

johnie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I thought, as the whole of East Dulwich is within
> the south circular, we will be in the ULEZ, so I
> don't think we will be the dumping zone, that
> would be Forest Hill.

Phase 1 is for just the congestion charge zone, but you're right it then will be the whole of East Dulwich..

messageRe: Dog Kennel Hill CPZ
Posted by Passiflora 24 December, 2018 23:34

Drove through Grove Hill Road this morning to go Sainsburys and there were parking wardens about, one taking details of a car parked up on the new CPZ which probably shouldn't be there if they had read the signs. It's Christmas Eve but the wardens are out there sometimes!

messageRe: Dog Kennel Hill CPZ
Posted by Ladygooner January 09, 09:24PM

Can anyone tell me if the council actually post the permits out to residents or do the wardens just check the number plate to see if you have paid? I bought a permit on 1st Jan online but have not received anything in the post.

messageRe: Dog Kennel Hill CPZ
Posted by Passiflora January 09, 10:45PM

Southwark do post out permits to residents in CPZs but as long as you've done it all on-line there really is no need to display the permit. I don't.

We've had a CPZ for nearly two years and talking to the people who whizz about checking on vehicles, it's all done on-line and they get to know after a while who are residents, visitors, etc.

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