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messageSouthwark School Street Closure Scheme
Posted by Passiflora February 04, 12:20AM

Seems like this scheme that was initiated last September has already been given the go ahead in Southwark - Bessemer Grange Primary School being the first in the pilot.

Local people in the neighbourhood were not consulted and there have been effects in the local area. It now seems there will be another one being introduced in Robert Browning Primary in Walworth as per the councillor in a photo in the Southwark News last week.

Any thoughts about this and about how it will affect local areas?

messageRe: Southwark School Street Closure Scheme
Posted by Monkey February 04, 03:45AM

It will be disruptive for residents but, living opposite a local school and being witness to the utterly idiotic and dangerous driving of quite a lot of parents on a daily basis - even when the police are around - iím 100% supportive of this new scheme.

messageRe: Southwark School Street Closure Scheme
Posted by mrwb February 04, 07:21AM

I walk past Bessemer grange on way to work occasionally. Seems a reasonable idea, only issue I see is if residents in the zone need to drive somewhere in the closure, be it work, shopping, hospital or whatever.

Can the yellow barriers can be moved quite easily and quickly if really needed?

Why did they introduce this scheme? Have kids in the borough been injured by cars outside schools?

messageRe: Southwark School Street Closure Scheme
Posted by singalto February 04, 08:46AM

I live near two schools and so many parents park anywhere they like including double yellow lines and even the zigzag lines. They also have their engine idling. Surely road closures just push the problem along.

messageRe: Southwark School Street Closure Scheme
Posted by goldilocks February 04, 10:32AM

These school streets are not only about making the roads safer for kids to cross, but to reduce pollution around schools and to help encourage active modes of transport (not least for those who will find it less easy to drive as a result of the street closure!). If parents can't drop kids off near the school gates they are less likely to sit with engines idling and this would cut localised pollution around the schools. Suspect Bessemer has been chosen as a test as the area is easier to restrict than others just from a road layout perspective.

I note that Passiflora states there 'have been effects in the local area' - assume this is in terms of pushing parking further out but would be interesting to understand.

Based on my limited understanding of the ones I've seen discussion on, the residents would still be able to enter and leave the zone but anyone else could not. The hours of operation are fairly limited so you'd expect that the amount of residents needing to drive in and out of a defined area during the school street times would be fairly low.

Driving kids to school in London is inappropriate - we have so many schools nearby and the distance by which places are offered is very small and all schools are served by local bus routes. Just to clarify, I'm not talking about kids / parents with mobility issues or other disabilities that could make travelling to school in other ways difficult, but the vast majority of pupils in any school.

messageRe: Southwark School Street Closure Scheme
Posted by micromacromonkey February 04, 12:24PM

Interesting, wasn't aware of this. Good idea though. I would gues it very much depends on which street the school is on though; not sure they will close bellenden rd for Belham school for example. Even though people drive down it fast and often don't stop at the zebra crossing.

messageRe: Southwark School Street Closure Scheme
Posted by Sally Eva February 04, 12:38PM

Or close Adys Road to protect St John and St Clement

messageRe: Southwark School Street Closure Scheme
Posted by bubbachumps February 04, 01:53PM

School streets is a fantastic initiative. Anyone interested should watch this short video on how it has been implemented at a school in Hackney which is on a busy road, a bus route. [www.youtube.com]. This shows that it's very possible to implement on streets which are busy, where it's obviously needed most.

Southwark have committed to increasing the number of School Streets this year. Please email your Councillor if it's something you care about to show support.

messageRe: Southwark School Street Closure Scheme
Posted by DadOf4 February 04, 02:58PM

I walk past Bessemer Grange and have been wondering what the yellow barriers were
I think this is a fantastic initiative

messageRe: Southwark School Street Closure Scheme
Posted by Sally Eva February 04, 03:09PM

Southwark Cyclists website report on School Streets

[southwarkcyclists.org.uk]

I think one of the important points is that this follows "soft" attempts to stop parents driving their kids to the school gate: the zig zag lines, traffic wardens, school publicity campaigns and banners, and now temporary barriers. The schools have to work quite hard to implement the closures which suggests that the staff place a lot of importance on the benefits: cleaner air, road safety and encouraging active travel to school



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was february 04, 03:12pm by Sally Eva.

messageRe: Southwark School Street Closure Scheme
Posted by James Barber February 04, 05:46PM

This scheme seems great. Reduce air pollution, encourage people to walk and cycle for school drop and collection, likely decrease in danger from traffic. 8-9am and 3-4pm.

I'd like Melbourne Grove (northern end) around Jarvis Road to be trialled.
Goose Green Primary School seems another good candidate.

Each has one road so relatively straight forward and I had concerned residents and parental casework.

Which schools do other people think prime local candidates?

--------------------
Regards jamesvbarber@gmail.com
former Liberal Democrat Councillor for East Dulwich Ward (2006-2018)
[www.jamesbarber.org.uk]
[twitter.com]

messageRe: Southwark School Street Closure Scheme
Posted by keano77 February 04, 06:15PM

James Barber said:

... Goose Green Primary School seems another good candidate.

Each has one road so relatively straight forward and I had concerned residents and parental casework...

Isnít Goose Green Primary the one near Goose Green Roundabout/Bellingham Road. Where is its main entrance, Tintagel Rd?

messageRe: Southwark School Street Closure Scheme
Posted by intexasatthe moment February 04, 06:30PM

I support initiatives to discourage ppl driving children to school ,there is a distinction between using a vehicle solely to get a child to school and those who are dropping a child off and then continuing their journey to work/hospital appt/drop another child off at a different school .

Obviously this isn't ideal but sometimes it's the only way that some can keep all the balls they are juggling up in the air .

messageRe: Southwark School Street Closure Scheme
Posted by BeadyBoo February 04, 06:32PM

Goodrich please James Barber.

messageRe: Southwark School Street Closure Scheme
Posted by RecorderSue February 04, 11:14PM

Yes its entrance is in Tintagel Crescent. I can walk there and do.

messageRe: Southwark School Street Closure Scheme
Posted by Passiflora February 05, 12:16AM

I asked for thoughts about the scheme and specifically how it would affect the local area but as usual the bicycle community have to get on board about things even though they are usually the last ones to reach their destination on time. Walking into the area is best if you live in the catchment area.

Bessemer Grange has expanded into a very large primary school in recent years and so there have been parents bringing in their children from far and wide and mostly by car, some just around the corner in the car.

The yellow barriers have been put up outside the three street entrances onto Bessemer (since last Sept/Oct) in term time but with no consultation with the local neighbourhood.

messageRe: Southwark School Street Closure Scheme
Posted by rendelharris February 05, 04:55AM

Passiflora Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I asked for thoughts about the scheme and
> specifically how it would affect the local area
> but as usual the bicycle community

One person leaving a perfectly sensible comment and a link to this exact issue.

have to get on
> board about things even though they are usually
> the last ones to reach their destination on time.

What does that mean? And even if it made any sense, how is it relevant?

Are cyclists not allowed to comment on traffic management now? Do they not use the streets?

What you really mean is that, with your usual pro-car anti-traffic-management stance, is that you object to this scheme and were hoping to get loads of support; now it turns out most commenters are in favour you have to find a scapegoat. Silly.

messageRe: Southwark School Street Closure Scheme
Posted by first mate February 05, 07:40AM

There are many schools around East Dulwich, so yes it is valid to ask how simultaneously closing off myriad streets adjacent to those schools every day will impact the area.

It seems that the favourite trick of doing it a street at time is once again being employed but it won't be until they are all closed at the same time that the true impact will be felt. Quite a few schools sit on major access routes into and out ED.

Why not ask each school to campaign with the parents whose children attend and ask them not to drive in?

And there should be a major consultation across the community before such far reaching measures are taken.

messageRe: Southwark School Street Closure Scheme
Posted by singalto February 05, 08:31AM

Sadly I donít think closing roads will stop people driving. They will simply park in the nearest available street. I went to a meeting about the building of the Harris primary school and asked about parking as thereís was clearly not going to be any onsite parking. I was told that the catchment area for the school would be very small and a condition for getting a place was that children would all walk, cycle or use public transport to get to school. I said it would never work. It hasnít. Children from far and wide go there and the parents park wherever they want. Nothing will stop people driving their children to school.

messageRe: Southwark School Street Closure Scheme
Posted by roywj February 05, 06:53PM

Yes, a number of parents will continue to drive to school but from my experience I have noticed many taking alternative forms of transport including: walking and cycling.

The closure of the road outside the school helps to reduce pollution in and around the school.

I have noticed it has been much safer walking my child to school in the mornings with the road closure. If residents need to get in/out a member of the school team is on the road to quickly move the barrier for access.

Does not appear to have affected traffic in the area as only in force for short period morning and afternoon. Agree with a school by school approach as best way to slowly implement, giving people chance to adapt. May be trickier to implement with schools on main roads.

We need to do as much as we can do reduce pollution and improve road safety in the area, particularly for our children.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit was february 05, 06:54pm by roywj.

messageRe: Southwark School Street Closure Scheme
Posted by worldwiser February 05, 06:57PM

A very large proportion of children at Harris do walk in but there are all kinds of reasons why a few people might come by car. Not the least of which is that people do move house and are no longer in the immediate area. Some people have to drive to their work or might even need a car for work and can't be expected to walk back home again after dropping kids. But it's only a very small minority who are in this position. The vast majority do walk.

messageRe: Southwark School Street Closure Scheme
Posted by roywj February 05, 07:04PM

Parents are still able to drive and park, just not right outside the school.

From my experience this has made the roads much safer as parents are not parking inconsideratly, causing jams or racing to get their child to school just in time.

messageRe: Southwark School Street Closure Scheme
Posted by Galileo February 05, 08:56PM

singalto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sadly I donít think closing roads will stop people
> driving. They will simply park in the nearest
> available street. I went to a meeting about the
> building of the Harris primary school and asked
> about parking as thereís was clearly not going to
> be any onsite parking. I was told that the
> catchment area for the school would be very small
> and a condition for getting a place was that
> children would all walk, cycle or use public
> transport to get to school. I said it would never
> work. It hasnít. Children from far and wide go
> there and the parents park wherever they want.
> Nothing will stop people driving their children to
> school.

As a new school, the catchment was quite wide for the first year and perhaps the second, as people were effectively taking a leap into an untested school. As the school has progressed the catchment has got progressively smaller and is now very local. So there are some parents who drive from further distances but the vast majority walk and over the years the proportion of students who come from any great distance will further reduce.

messageRe: Southwark School Street Closure Scheme
Posted by Passiflora February 05, 11:11PM

Thanks for all the comments.

messageRe: Southwark School Street Closure Scheme
Posted by JennaAZ February 06, 10:08AM

I am writing as an American parent of a child in Bessemer. I only qualify myself as an American because in our school system there, we had a method of fluid driving drop offs that could happen here. I offered my suggestions to the Head and she gave a pretty candid response. First, fluid driving drop off can't happen until the zig zags go away. Second, they have, according to her over the years, tried different methods to prevent the mass car chaos. One of them was organizing staff to meet at Sainsbury's parking lot and walk the children over (there is a footpath from there to the School) and there was little to no participation so they stopped. This seemed to be the best option to me, but parents were not on-board. Lastly, with the road being so close (as with so many schools in London) to the school entrances (there are three entry points depending on what year the kids are in), bottle-necking and unsafe conditions for the children were concerns (not to mention the pollution).

I am truly sorry the residence of the affected area were not consulted. However, this parent is truly grateful that I do not have to worry about car traffic and pollution while getting my daughter to school. Please keep in mind that her building is across from the main building (older years) and knowing we don't have to worry about traffic going and coming from school is a huge weight lifted from this mom's shoulders.

As of now, the barriers are easily movable (on wheels), but it is my understanding that this test was to eventually be made permanent with permanent barriers and I'm not sure how easy those would be for residents.

It is probably worth noting that I do not drive and do not have to commute to work. We walk and/or bus it to school. However, knowing that the Sainsbury's parking lot is a 5 minute (or less) walk to school would just mean I'd use that if I did.

Again, sorry for the local resident inconvenience, but this mom thanks you for your unconsulted and perhaps unwanted participation.

Jenna

messageRe: Southwark School Street Closure Scheme
Posted by mrwb February 06, 12:16PM

Surely the barriers couldn't be make permanent or if they were, there would still have to be an easy way to remove them?

What if there is a medical emergency, police incident or Fire in the closed off area, or even at the school itself during the closure time?

messageRe: Southwark School Street Closure Scheme
Posted by jamesmcash February 06, 01:18PM

Hi all

It's great to see that this initiative is being discussed on the Forum! I have been discussing this with a number of the schools in the Goose Green area and there is a lot of interest. It is probable that we would look at something around Goose Green Primary School initially but there is potential for it at a number of other schools. Of course, as with all these schemes, the devil is in the detail so before anything is implemented i would want to ensure there is adequate discussion with both the school and the local community.

Best wishes
James

--------------------
James McAsh - Labour Councillor for Goose Green ward
James.McAsh@Southwark.gov.uk
[twitter.com]

Surgeries: 2nd and 4th Thursdays of the month at 7pm, East Dulwich Community Centre on Darrell Road

messageRe: Southwark School Street Closure Scheme
Posted by first mate February 06, 01:59PM

James,

Think the devil will only be apparent if and when a number of schools around ED implement this at the same time. The first few will not make much of an impact but will set a precedent for others to follow suit. That is why it needs proper consultation across the community, not the council favoured piecemeal approach.

I should add that when a number of schools were in the development phase- Harris ED and Charter the issue of lack of parking and drop off points was raised many times. I seem to recall soothing assurances that parents and pupils would mostly walk or cycle.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was february 06, 02:02pm by first mate.

messageRe: Southwark School Street Closure Scheme
Posted by karpar February 06, 09:23PM

Goodrich Scool would be a prime candidate for this. It is chaotic, especially in the morning, and there is no lollipop person at any of the surrounding streets. The school has two mini roundabouts next to the school, adding to the problem of crossing roads to get to the school. I suspect that the council will be reluctant to implement anything as Dunstans Rd is a popular rat run for commuters too.

messageRe: Southwark School Street Closure Scheme
Posted by Passiflora February 06, 11:22PM

Bessemer Grange should have had CEO's (otherwise known as traffic wardens) patrolling the school at drop-off and pick-up times, prior to the street closure. Why didn't they if there was such a parking problem? The head must have known about parking issues but the head has now imposed other parking issues on the local surrounding community i.e. inside and outside of the yellow gates.

I've noticed that the two disabled parking bays directly opposite the school are due to be taken out (notices on lamp-posts recently) but nothing about the zig zag lines directly outside the school so what's the point of them?

So now the surrounding area have to put up with cars parked on double yellow lines, across driveways, across zebra crossing zig-zags, neighbours cars being damaged. This is just around the corner from Bessemer Grange and this also impacts on children's safety.

The area is suddenly (since last Sept/Oct) being patrolled by CEO's on foot and in cars but they are reluctant to issue any fines in the area. I've spoken to them regularly about the problem in the area since the Street Closure but they all seem very friendly with the parents driving into the school.

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