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messageResidents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by talfourdite February 24, 05:37PM

Dear all,

Southwark have initiated a 6-9 month 'experiment' turning Champion Hill into a one-way street. Unfortunately this is diverting all traffic headed South West, to Dulwich Village and Herne Hill, from North of Goose Green towards your streets. You may not be aware of this upstream change to traffic routing but I believe it to be of significant importance to you.
Champion Hill was a wide, sparsely populated and free flowing route towards Denmark Hill, which allowed us a fast, reliable way to bypass your streets. Unfortunately, following the decision to shut this off, we have no choice but to drive the longer, slower route through your neighbourhoods.
In keeping with usual Southwark traffic/parking changes there was no consultation outside of the local residents, but I believe this wide-reaching change will force significant amounts of traffic towards you and you may wish to object on the southwark consultation link attached.
[consultations.southwark.gov.uk]

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by sdrs February 26, 12:11PM

Here is a link to a Southwark Council online consultation form inviting comments on the no entry trial, which apparently went live on 7th February, unbeknownst to local residents, who yet again, were not notified!

[consultations.southwark.gov.uk]

This closes on 30th September 2019.

Please take the time to complete this if youíve experienced or are experiencing increased congestion and pollution, road safety issues, and/ or bus delays etc, as a result of the no entry trial. If the survey will let you, it is worth attaching photographic evidence to illustrate your concerns.

It is becoming clear that the effects of the trial are far-reaching and are being felt as far south as Melbourne Grove and East Dulwich Grove, on the main bus and pedestrian route to East Dulwich secondary schools, as well as on the hill, the main pedestrian route to Dog Kennel School, Lyndhurst School and Denmark Hill station.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was february 26, 12:13pm by sdrs.

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by rendelharris February 26, 01:09PM

Talfourdite - if as your name implies you live on Talfourd Road, how did you previously access Denmark Hill without driving through other people's neighborhoods, viz Lyndhurst Grove, Macneill Road, Camberwell Grove, Grove Hill Road and Champion Hill? As for having "no choice" but to drive through other people's neighbourhoods, you could easily drive via Peckham Road and Denmark Hill. As a point of interest, that route is almost exactly the same distance (1.36 miles) as your previous route (1.3 miles). I get that people are annoyed that their convenient ratrun has been sealed off, but trying to scare everyone into objecting with claims that there are no alternatives to driving through their neighbourhood isn't on.

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by sally buying February 26, 02:00PM

It may be exactly the same distance according to you, but the time factor is far far longer.

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by rendelharris February 26, 02:20PM

sally buying Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It may be exactly the same distance according to
> you, but the time factor is far far longer.

It's not according to me, it's according to Google Maps. You're missing the point, which is that the OP is claiming that there is "no alternative" to driving through the neighbourhoods s/he mentions; there is an alternative, they just don't wish to take it as it's not as convenient or quick.

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by Abe_froeman February 26, 03:53PM

Your assumption is that they don't like your suggestion because it is not as convenient or quick, but actually it might just be that they don't want to use the so-called alternative as that means they will create excess unnecessary pollution, or come into conflict with a plague of self righteous passive aggressive cyclists.

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by rendelharris February 26, 03:58PM

Abe_froeman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Your assumption is that they don't like your
> suggestion because it is not as convenient or
> quick, but actually it might just be that they
> don't want to use the so-called alternative as
> that means they will create excess unnecessary
> pollution, or come into conflict with a plague of
> self righteous passive aggressive cyclists.

Ignoring your silly ad hominem, could you tell me where one can find this vast cohort of selfless drivers who apparently only care about pollution and the welfare of others? To read these threads regarding traffic control, CPZs etc, it's marvellous, nobody is interested in their own convenience, all they care about is others. If you care about pollution, child welfare etc (with the usual caveats regarding the elderly, disabled, tradesmen etc, before you insert them)the best thing to do is stop lobbying for ways you can use your car more quickly and start not using your car so much.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was february 26, 03:59pm by rendelharris.

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by snowy February 26, 05:40PM

"or come into conflict with a plague of self righteous passive aggressive cyclists" - you're starting to lose the plot a little.

You do realise that cyclists are also likely to be car drivers? Department of Transport figures from 2018 report that 85% of the people aged 18+ who cycled also held a driving licence.

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by sally buying February 26, 05:58PM

Where are these figures?

How do they know who cycled or not?

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by snowy February 26, 06:13PM


messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by first mate February 26, 06:35PM

Interesting that 85% of those who cycle feel the need to own a car.

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by rendelharris February 26, 06:48PM

first mate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Interesting that 85% of those who cycle feel the
> need to own a car.

85% hold a driving licence, not own a car. I know plenty of cyclists who rent cars for holidays etc but don't feel the need to drive around London or keep a permanent vehicle.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was february 26, 06:49pm by rendelharris.

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by first mate February 26, 06:56PM

That's a lot of cyclists who feel it necessary to drive a car at some point and one would imagine a fair proportion are also car owners- I haven't looked at the figures, so don't know sample size etc...

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by rendelharris February 26, 07:17PM

first mate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's a lot of cyclists who feel it necessary to
> drive a car at some point and one would imagine a
> fair proportion are also car owners- I haven't
> looked at the figures, so don't know sample size
> etc...

And your point, if any, is...?

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by first mate February 26, 07:38PM

?

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by tomskip February 26, 07:41PM

Many cyclists come to a point in their lives when they need to transport 2 or 3 children and a partner around all at the same time and find that a car comes in handy for that.

Or, they may have done a lot of car driving and enjoy the solitude that a lovely long cycle ride provides.

Or they may be car owners but commute by bike because it's quicker and cheaper than the bus and congestion charge.

In any event, I find it entirely plausible that a significant majority of cyclists also hold a driving licence and drive occasionally or frequently.

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by sally buying February 26, 07:55PM

Were the % results published only if people replied to the survey. How many people asked and how many people replied?

Not an accurate survey at all.

Maybe I have this wrong?

I have a driving licence and also cycle but received zip.

Another manipulated survey and result.

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by Abe_froeman February 26, 07:57PM

I have a car, driving licence and a push bike but I would never self-identify as a cyclist.

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by rendelharris February 26, 08:22PM

sally buying Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Were the % results published only if people
> replied to the survey. How many people asked and
> how many people replied?
>
> Not an accurate survey at all.
>
> Maybe I have this wrong?

Yes, indeed you have. You challenged Snowy about the validity of his figures, s/he provided a link which shows that the survey used recognised scientific sampling procedures (and no, it wasn't in any way a respondent only survey), you clearly didn't read it and then come back saying it isn't accurate. You're not interested in a discussion, you just want to (attempt to) down anyone who disagrees with your oft-stated very pro-car views.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was february 26, 08:25pm by rendelharris.

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by rendelharris February 26, 08:24PM

Abe_froeman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have a car, driving licence and a push bike but
> I would never self-identify as a cyclist.

If you cycle, you're a cyclist; if you drive a car, you're a car driver; if you do both, as you do, then you're both. Who's asking anyone to "self-identify"? The survey certainly didn't.

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by sally buying February 26, 08:40PM

Very much like your pro cycle anti motor car anything view.

Not sure what other posters think but I really do think you should take a break from the forum.

No matter what people post you always have to have a comment. The rendelharris view of course. It really gets very boring and I am sure puts people of from posting.

Plenty of ammo there to reply.

I wont be

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by rendelharris February 26, 09:09PM

sally buying Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Plenty of ammo there to reply.
>
> I wont be


Good.

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by talfourdite February 26, 09:58PM

We drove to the village every day and the drive was around 10 miutes, versus the route via other roads which is around 20-25 minutes. Thatís a lot of additional demand on already stressed routes, and a huge amount of additional fumes. The loss of additional route out and reduced capacity will create disproportionately more traffic jams (the is how networks operate at high stress) and fail more dramatically when there are other road works/ traffic issues on the few remaining routes. No sane person can think this has broad positive impacts for society.

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by bels123 February 26, 10:31PM

talfourdite Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We drove to the village every day and the drive
> was around 10 miutes, versus the route via other
> roads which is around 20-25 minutes. Thatís a lot
> of additional demand on already stressed routes,
> and a huge amount of additional fumes. The loss of
> additional route out and reduced capacity will
> create disproportionately more traffic jams (the
> is how networks operate at high stress) and fail
> more dramatically when there are other road works/
> traffic issues on the few remaining routes. No
> sane person can think this has broad positive
> impacts for society.

Walking/cycling will get you there quicker, we go to the Village daily using these methods and regularly beat the traffic along East Dulwich Grove. The air pollution and congestion in the Village from parents driving to the independent schools is appalling so there's little sympathy from me that this is making your journey inconvenient - I hope it encourages many to shift to active / public transport - but of course it will take awhile to settle.

@rendelharris - I appreciate your posts, please keep going!

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by Passiflora February 26, 10:47PM

But not everyone can walk that distance or cycle even BELs so of course you would adopt a selfish attitude, just like Rendel, who hates everybody that drives a car!

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by bels123 February 26, 11:13PM

Obviously not everyone can, but a lot could - 1 in 4 car journeys are under a mile.

If you're sat in a car in traffic you can be breathing in exhaust fumes upto 10 times as much as outside the car.

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by betternowthanthen February 27, 01:55AM

FOR THE ADDENTION of rendelharris

Your really not helping the good people here explain what is real and very concerneing problem to locals who need to help out other good people and to help them understand the situation of a terrible decsion the council have made recently, i'm very gradfull for talfourdite starting this thread, I'm 100% back her/his inmofmitive and helfull imformation in rectifying this terrible decision, which in creases pollution/traffice/noise and safty concerns.

You rendelharris (if thats your real name!) have done nothing but pointless nic picking at peoples comments, your stopping the natual flow of helpfull decent and kind conversation, your distracting the direction of the conversation with ill thought replys which utterly have no cohersion to the situation that other good people here are trying to make.

YOUR NOT HELPING ANYTHING BY THE WAY

You seem to be completly undetered by the actual facts people here are saying that are true, and only commeting to shame them, even thoiugh they are right.

You seem to favour a council that is brushing things under a carpet, who is not listing to us, like you are.

Your in favour of people making longer car journys in heavy traffic roads

your in favour of high pollution levels it seems to.

Your commeting in an attitude like they are thick or something....which is wrong to do.

Please pic on other trolls on this forum and waste thieer time, not the good people here who are trying to amend stupid decisions that you seem to defend FOR NO APPARENT REASON, with out and considerationthan other than yourself self interest. Of which your yet to revel, as i'm sure your be found out, sure that'll happen by what noncence you post.

smiling smiley this smile is only for you, only you...

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by rendelharris February 27, 04:59AM

Jolly good. I can't wait to see my secret self-interest revealed, as I don't even know what it is myself. Thank you for drawing it to my addention.

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by rendelharris February 27, 06:44AM

Passiflora Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But not everyone can walk that distance or cycle
> even BELs so of course you would adopt a selfish
> attitude, just like Rendel, who hates everybody
> that drives a car!

The EDF is the only forum I know where not polluting and not clogging up streets with dangerous machinery is regarded as selfish. I do not hate everybody who drives a car by any means, some car journeys are necessary and some people need to use cars. I hate wasteful, selfish people who regard their "right" to drive a car as having precedence over anything else, and people who insist on driving when perfectly viable, non-environmentally-destructive options are available.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit was february 27, 07:04am by rendelharris.

messageRe: Residents Melbourne Grove, Adys Road, Bromar Road - Traffic increases due to Champion Hill
Posted by first mate February 27, 08:13AM

Anyway, to get the thread back on track, residents have until September 30th to comment either in favour or against.
For now, it does seem the case that this experiment is having a negative effect on traffic levels in East Dulwich, at least that is what some residents are reporting.

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