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messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by RichH May 27, 01:29PM

TheArtfulDogger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe we should have a "grass roots" revolution
> and organically grow a protest against this green
> tax
>
> Let's plant the seeds of discontent about
> additional charges for services we already pay for
> in our council taxes before they spiral out like
> Japanese knot weed into other services

I think you've certainly grasped the nettle there!

I'm still waiting for my sticker. I'd like to think that they're going to send them all out this week just in time for the start of the scheme. Then again, it wouldn't surprise me if they haven't even printed them yet.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by Rosetta May 27, 04:01PM

Wonder if Southwark will send trucks out to pick up all the bins that donít have stickers. Any councillors know the answer?

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by green ranger May 27, 06:13PM

Rosetta Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wonder if Southwark will send trucks out to pick
> up all the bins that donít have stickers. Any
> councillors know the answer?


Theyíre going to put all the sticker-less brown bins in especially enlarged blue bins to be recycled at Southend by dumping them in the sea to obstruct any whales passing through the Channel

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by rollflick May 31, 01:08PM

Defra, the bit of the government that covers waste policy, has just consulted on a new national approach to dealing with waste. Rather than explain Southwark's plans for garden waste, it raises fundamental questions about them: see pp26-31 in
[consult.defra.gov.uk]


First Defra suggests that "each household should be supplied with a fortnightly collection service for garden waste and that this service should be free of charge". Surely it's crazy for Southwark go through the hassle of introducing garden waste charges if the government is about to require it NOT to charge?!?

"Given the dispersal of subscribers across an authority, collection services for charged collections may be more inefficient and represent a higher cost per household serviced than when there is high participation in a free service. This is because vehicles might have further to travel between pickups and collect less material overall. In addition, monitoring of garden waste capture rates across the various disposal and recycling routes suggests that following the introduction of charging, large proportions of garden waste may be entering the residual waste stream.
... Our estimates are that if every householder with a garden had access to a free garden waste collection service then overall household recycling rates would increase by 6% points compared to their current levels, reducing the risk of this material ending up in landfill."
While that 6% figure is likely to be less in an inner London borough with many flats, there's still likely to be a net negative impact on the borough's recycling rate, which has been stagnating recently.


Second on food waste: "We therefore propose to require that from 2023, all local authorities offer all households separate weekly food waste collection. Generally food waste should be presented separately from garden waste, so that the food waste can ideally be sent to anaerobic digestion" (AD)

This is suggested because:
"When collected with garden waste, food waste cannot be sent to AD and is sent to in-vessel composting. Unlike AD, in-vessel composting does not produce biofuel for energy generation and is a comparatively more expensive waste treatment option. On the other hand, mixed food and garden waste collections can be more convenient as it does not require separate arrangements for collection of food and garden waste... [But] Technologies like in-vessel composting (IVC) and mechanical biological treatment (MBT) require mixed organic feedstocks with some amount of food waste to work optimally, and it is possible that separate collection of food waste may compromise the viability of these technologies....Where practicable, we would expect authorities that normally use IVC treatment for mixed food and garden waste to allow householders to present food waste separately and then to have this mixed with garden waste at kerbside, transfer station or treatment facility to meet long term contractual commitments to in-vessel composting facilities"

Are separate collections really practical for the whole borough though?
Southwark could simply collect food waste separately (e.g.flats in north of borough) from those areas where most homes have gardens, hence combined garden & food waste (e.g. ED and further south). Southwark is locked into a waste contract to 2033 with Veolia. The hassle and cost (financial and also environmental) of separate collection of garden & food waste, remixing the contents of our bins outside our front doors etc. is unlikely to outweigh the benefits, especially if food waste can be reduced through behaviour change campaigns. So surely worth waiting what the govt decides, rather than sending out lots of separate food caddies?

All in all seems Southwark's waste & cleansing department has made an almighty mess! Who will clear things up?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit was may 31, 01:12pm by rollflick.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by James Barber May 31, 02:54PM

You could not make this up!

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by Jules-and-Boo May 31, 03:13PM

Food waste is particularly bad for the environment when it is mixed into landfill - produces methane.

Education and behaviour change are the ideal way forward.

However, we should also look at how effective our recycling is - how much of the rubbish sorted by households into recycling actually gets recycled?

This all bypasses the vital question- why our our supermarkets not penalised for using so much packaging?
If they were fined, prices would go up, people wouldn't buy from them and then THEIR behaviours would change - use of plastic for packaging would drop, requirement for recycling would drop.

You have to look hard for products that are not harmful to the environment (think about your cleaning products) and also packaging that is fully recycled, let alone biodegradable.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by anchor June 01, 09:43PM

Southwark said that everyone should carry on using their garden bins as usual whether they have subscribed or not, as they will not be removing the unstickered bins until August or so. They also said that there would be no need for the unstickered bins to be made empty, since they will be taking away the contents at the same time that they (eventually) take away the bins.

With regard to the remaining stickered bins possibly attracting other people's garden waste, Southwark said they expect this might happen but can do nothing about it. They also said that if any garden waste is dumped on a pavement that would be flytipping but if it is put on your property it becomes the householder's responsibility to dispose of it.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by intexasatthe moment June 01, 09:49PM

Thanks for posting anchor - helpful info .

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by Countrlass22 June 01, 09:55PM

Thanks so much very helpful info.
So till August then awesome.
I won't order bags till then.
No point if still use brown bin.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by TheArtfulDogger June 01, 10:48PM

anchor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> With regard to the remaining stickered bins
> possibly attracting other people's garden waste,
> Southwark said they expect this might happen but
> can do nothing about it. They also said that if
> any garden waste is dumped on a pavement that
> would be flytipping but if it is put on your
> property it becomes the householder's
> responsibility to dispose of it.


Interesting, so Southwark are going to implement a new scheme that has consequences for people subscribing to it, but they are going to wash their hands of any responsibility for fly tipping in your bin or property !

And you wonder why people are up in arms, do the words "shambles in the making" sound about right ?

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by hpsaucey June 02, 01:44PM

Still nothing on the site about brown bags. Iím too pissed off to ring them as I canít guarantee keeping my cool. Piss up and brewery...

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by Mscrawthew June 02, 03:04PM

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was june 02, 03:08pm by Mscrawthew.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by Mscrawthew June 02, 03:07PM

So, all of us that have paid for collection have been ripped off.If it is the case that normal collection no matter will be on going until August then we should not have been told to pay up by 1st June but the 1st of August and with a pro-rata charge to the £30 annual charge! This is such a mess its laughable.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit was june 02, 04:28pm by Mscrawthew.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by snoopy17 June 02, 04:23PM

Can we keep putting food in the bin till August?

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by Rosetta June 02, 05:17PM

If you have already paid then raise a dispute with your bank/credit card company as you havenít received what you have paid for. My bank (First Direct) does an instant refund. It then gives the retailer a certain number of days to dispute it. Itís approximately 40 days.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by Applepears June 03, 12:39PM

I agree ,,I have the same problem leaves from my next door neighbours tree, that is Southwark council property. I have fake grass no garden waste what so ever of mine, but 8 bags of leaves in December and 4 or 5 more in January every year,,, why should I pay for that .

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by Applepears June 03, 12:53PM

One side of Goodrich road looks awful with all there bins on the pavement, they are all over the place and so many , and they donít know which is thereís,,I wouldnít mind but they do have room in there front gardens. The council are now putting new slabs down, be nice if these residents would sort out there bins and put them inside there gate. And then whatís left phone the council to remove..

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by sleepy-li June 03, 12:58PM

Does everyone who paid for a sticker for this daft scheme have them> I have paid but not received anything, Im guessing I'm not alone...

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by cella June 03, 01:07PM

No haven't received anything yet given the scheme was originally supposed to start on 1 June. I've paid but no service and no official notifications from Southwark explaining this. I'm thinking, like others on here, of applying for a credit card refund until we hear if the scheme is still planned.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by Siduhe June 03, 01:17PM

Sort of an update for anyone (like me) who relies on the garden waste bags (which are conspicuously absent from the garden waste options on the Southwark website).

That service (ordering and paying for bags and arranging for them to be collected) has also not yet been launched but they do expect to have it in place this month - the suggestion is that it should be sorted in 2 weeks. Not holding my breath, but the manager who called me was very clear they know they need to get this sorted well in advance of 1 August.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by Penguin68 June 03, 01:18PM

You have paid for your garden waste to be collected from 1st June and it will be. What you are upset about is that others haven't paid and their garden waste will still be collected. I can't see why you would get a CC refund when you are getting what you paid for. Just rejoice thst others are being looked after as well. No skin off your nose if they haven't paid. (And I paid as well, by the way). If Southwark was to be trusted (it isn't), then those who paid by 1st June should perhaps be charged only £25 next year, and not £30,but don't hold your breath.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was june 03, 01:20pm by Penguin68.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by hpsaucey June 03, 03:00PM

Youíre OK if you still have a bin. If youíre on bags like me and run out there currently doesnít seem to be a way to get more. Going to try putting it out in alternative paper bag and see if it goes.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by cella June 03, 03:55PM

Penguin68 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You have paid for your garden waste to be
> collected from 1st June and it will be. What you
> are upset about is that others haven't paid and
> their garden waste will still be collected. I
> can't see why you would get a CC refund when you
> are getting what you paid for. Just rejoice thst
> others are being looked after as well. No skin off
> your nose if they haven't paid. (And I paid as
> well, by the way). If Southwark was to be trusted
> (it isn't), then those who paid by 1st June should
> perhaps be charged only £25 next year, and not
> £30,but don't hold your breath.


Eh? Bit ott. I like others on here subscribed to the new process to have garden waste removed, yes, but also into a new system necessitating new bins, stickers, sharing with neighbours, new collection system etc. and it hadn't fully been implemented. Like others I am considering withdrawing and signing up when they are ready to roll it out fully. Unlike you I don't subscribe to conspiracy theories, particularly on such a First World issue, and think it's more cock up than a "trust" issue. Just an opportunity to rant about a Labour Council on your part again.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by first mate June 03, 04:01PM

I paid for service and also checked the box for a brown bin- I have always used bags. I have a few bags left and assume these will be collected in lieu of the undelivered bin. However, not sure what happens when bags run out and if still no sign of bin. Would S'wark expect me to purchase more bags?

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by spider69 June 03, 04:02PM

Lesson to all.

Do not pay until you get the red demand letter and legal action. Who knows the way Southwark work it could be next year.Will we ever learn the numbers who the real mugs are that paid?


"Thank you for your email.

I can confirm that the payments for garden waste service have in fact already started and that residents who have subscribed will receive a letter and sticker for their bin by the end of this week. The council will be taking further action to encourage residents to make payments to use the service before withdrawing garden waste bins from those households that have not signed up for the service.

It is therefore not the case that the paid for service has been postponed until August."

Yours sincerely

Councillor Richard Livingstone
Cabinet member for Environment, Transport and the Climate Emergency
Labour councillor for Old Kent Road Ward
London Borough of Southwark



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was june 03, 04:04pm by spider69.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by cella June 03, 04:04PM

Well that's the bit that's missing of course. It just needs someone from Southwark to let people know what the reason for the delay is and what the plan is.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by cella June 03, 04:08PM

spider69 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lesson to all.
>
> Do not pay until you get the red demand letter and
> legal action. Who knows the way Southwark work it
> could be next year.Will we ever learn the numbers
> who the real mugs are that paid?
>
>
> "Thank you for your email.
>
> I can confirm that the payments for garden waste
> service have in fact already started and that
> residents who have subscribed will receive a
> letter and sticker for their bin by the end of
> this week. The council will be taking further
> action to encourage residents to make payments to
> use the service before withdrawing garden waste
> bins from those households that have not signed up
> for the service.
>
> It is therefore not the case that the paid for
> service has been postponed until August."
>
> Yours sincerely
>
> Councillor Richard Livingstone
> Cabinet member for Environment, Transport and the
> Climate Emergency
> Labour councillor for Old Kent Road Ward
> London Borough of Southwark

Nobody is a mug for subscribing and paying as requested and from the info you've provided it's being sorted after an initial delay. Forcing the Council to issue warnings etc will only add to the overall costs so not sure why you're encouraging this.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by first mate June 03, 04:10PM

Informed by S'wark contact centre that 'they are a bit behind' but delivery of bins will definitely happen this week.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by spider69 June 03, 04:19PM

Cella wrote.

Nobody is a mug for subscribing and paying as requested and from the info you've provided it's being sorted after an initial delay. Forcing the Council to issue warnings etc will only add to the overall costs so not sure why you're encouraging this.

Perhaps it would have been better to have everything in place before it was rolled out?

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by Siduhe June 03, 05:34PM

hpsaucey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Youíre OK if you still have a bin. If youíre on
> bags like me and run out there currently doesnít
> seem to be a way to get more. Going to try putting
> it out in alternative paper bag and see if it
> goes.

HP see my message above for the latest on bags:

Sort of an update for anyone (like me) who relies on the garden waste bags (which are conspicuously absent from the garden waste options on the Southwark website).

That service (ordering and paying for bags and arranging for them to be collected) has also not yet been launched but they do expect to have it in place this month - the suggestion is that it should be sorted in 2 weeks. Not holding my breath, but the manager who called me was very clear they know they need to get this sorted well in advance of 1 August.

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