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The Bishop, The EDT, The Great Exhibition, the Actress or another?
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messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by tomskip March 20, 09:06AM

EDPineapple - we asked to swap our large brown wheelie for a kerbside bin several years ago. We also swapped our green bin for a slightly smaller one. It was done within a week. Iirc it just took a phone call to the Council. You could probably just fill in an online form now.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by cella March 20, 09:28AM

You sound very anti green issues - surely not?
DulwichFox Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think Southwark Council must have committees
> whose soul purpose is to dream up new schemes to
> raise money.
> Most of these are aimed at Motorists, Parking and
> the like.
>
> But we are told not to Pave over our gardens to
> improve drainage,
> Encourage the growth greenery for insects,
> butterflies and Bees.
>
> Then Ban the burning of garden waste with the
> possibility of Fines.
> Then.. If we put garden waste in our garden waste
> bins we will now be charged.
>
> Good Old Labour run Southwark Council.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by edcam March 20, 11:08AM

If this is true, it's unacceptable. Everything should be done to encourage recycling/upcycling. I also thought the council used this waste to make compost for use in the borough's green spaces, so we'd effectively be paying them twice for something that benefits everyone. If they try to charge for this then much of this waste will end up in landfill, which helps nobody.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by DulwichFox March 20, 11:57AM

cella Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
You sound very anti green issues - surely not?

> DulwichFox Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I think Southwark Council must have committees
> > whose soul purpose is to dream up new schemes
> to
> > raise money.
> > Most of these are aimed at Motorists, Parking
> and
> > the like.
> >
> > But we are told not to Pave over our gardens
> to
> > improve drainage,
> > Encourage the growth greenery for insects,
> > butterflies and Bees.
> >
> > Then Ban the burning of garden waste with the
> > possibility of Fines.
> > Then.. If we put garden waste in our garden
> waste
> > bins we will now be charged.
> >
> > Good Old Labour run Southwark Council.

I am certainly not Anti green.
I'm all for Encouraging the growth greenery for insects, butterflies and Bees.
But that has to be managed and garden waste needs to be recycled.

Southwark Council do recycle garden waste and food waste and turn it into compost.
They now Sell that compost at their Devon Street Depot.
So why should residents pay to have that waste taken away,

It's the same old story.
Create a situation that charges people (on top of their Council Tax) for a service
or FINE them if they decide not to recycle and burn their waste.



DulwichFox

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by DuncanW March 20, 12:59PM

Is this actually happening though??

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by nxjen March 20, 01:20PM

DuncanW Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is this actually happening though??

Not yet, but the thread has served Southwark Council well by preparing the way for introducing charges.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by James Barber March 20, 09:23PM

The current Labour Southwark Council are introducing garden waste charging -[moderngov.southwark.gov.uk]
Predicting net income of £330,000 pa.

See page 7 of this for the £30 per household for garden waste collections - [moderngov.southwark.gov.uk]
Expect more garden waste fires to avoid this fee. and potentially more fly tipping.
Homes with gardens already typically pay more Council Tax than those without.

I would advise stocking up on garden waste bags ASAP. Expect a run on them and for them to be withdrawn soon.

Also plans for more street advertising, CPZ's, parking in parks, etc.

P.S. The Bulky Waste collection fee is also increasing from £16 to £18 - so expect more fly tipping from this as well.

--------------------
Regards jamesvbarber@gmail.com
former Liberal Democrat Councillor for East Dulwich Ward (2006-2018)
[www.jamesbarber.org.uk]
[twitter.com]

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by AylwardS March 21, 07:41AM

The full committee report of which James attached the appendix D can be found at [moderngov.southwark.gov.uk]

I’ve not read the detail but it appears charges agreed are in Appendix G [moderngov.southwark.gov.uk] and it appears they apply from April. Anyone seen a request to pay?

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by peckman March 21, 08:28AM

Net income of 330k ? How much does it cost to collect the garden waste? Tbh we use ours a lot as we are avid gardeners . Many people aren't or haven't got the opportunity. Thirty quid a year seems reasonable to me

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by peckman March 21, 08:33AM

Although how on earth it is managed will probably offset any 'profit' . At least with current arrangement the bin men know to go to every house rather than try and find the ones that pay . To agree southwark is generally quite good. Used to live in lewisham and going to their tip was a nightmare.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by dc March 21, 08:55AM

As Mr Barber refers to his Liberal Democrat affiliation in a signature and attacks the Labour Council in Southwark, I thought it might be interesting to compare the situation here with that in Liberal Democrat controlled Kingston upon Thames.

They already charge for garden waste collections via a wheelie bin to the tune of £72 per financial year for a fortnightly service.

They also charge for bulk waste collections: £35 for up to 4 items and £55 for between 5 and 8 items.

So let’s not pretend that these decisions are being taken in isolation by Southwark without anything similar (or indeed, twice as expensive) being introduced in other boroughs.

I assume that Mr Barber wouldn’t argue that Kingston upon Thames has become a bonfire-choked, fly-tipped wasteland, akin to his dystopian view of Southwark’s future, since Kingston upon Thames introduced their, relatively exorbitant, charges?

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by peckman March 21, 09:10AM

Let's all be honest . The solution is to charge for landfill waste .the more you use the more you pay We all have a responsibility. Of course politically and practically it would never work .

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by cella March 21, 11:54AM

Can't see how this is a good decision. Not clear whether this charge is for food waste or just garden waste in bags?

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by Penguin68 March 21, 12:03PM

Not clear whether this charge is for food waste or just garden waste in bags?

Collecting food waste is a core and statutory duty of the council - such collections are already factored in to the Community charge. I believe it is brown bin garden waste which is referred to, and the council will (I believe) charge separately for the garden waste bags now given free. Presumably if you pay their ransom they will give you a sticker for your bin, or some other identifier. They are starting in 2 weeks time, yet have made no provision or plan for any of this. Nor any real announcement (the information being posted does not come from any communication made direct to residents, but from their tedious and obscure documents). And I note it takes an ex councillor (and not any of the incumbents) to confirm the rumours.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by slarti b March 21, 12:05PM

Whether it is a good decision or not the way it has been (not) communicated is appalling.

On the "Local Councillors" thread James McAsh said yesterday he would get back to me but nothing yet.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by Rockets March 21, 12:53PM

You would expect a local councillor to be aware of such an initiative as it would impact his constituents....wouldn't you?

The fact James B seems to be on top of this more than James M speaks volumes....a stealth tax so stealthy that even the local councillors seem unaware of it....

Additionally aren't you supposed to put food waste in the brown bin, will they refuse to collect it if it has garden waste in it?

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by IlonaM March 21, 01:16PM

The lack of communication and planning for something happening in a couple of weeks is appalling.

They don't seem to have thought this through very well -

- We are not all in one family residences, some of us in flats or houses in multiple occupation share our brown bins.
- Brown bins in HMOS are often used for garden work done in the common ways rather than just private gardens
- Where there are privately or social housing rented properties does the landlord pay for the brown bins?
- Where a mix of rented and owner-occupied properties in a building, does each resident apply and pay for own bin (seems bound to clog the streets), share or just use the ones with stickers on? Seems bound for potential neighbour disputes.


Did they even bother to canvas opinions? I had not heard anything before this thread.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by nxjen March 21, 01:24PM

James Barber alerted us that this was in the pipeline in September 2016

[www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk]

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by Boddle March 21, 02:37PM

Yes, envisaging a pile of unused large brown bins all over! We inherited ours - it was here when we moved in- and can certainly manage our garden waste with the sacks (its only a v small garden!) I'd like to get rid if we were charged But how do you dispose of it?

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by nxjen March 21, 03:32PM

The council will take it away if you ask them to

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by cella March 21, 07:10PM

The food waste currently goes into the brown bins with garden waste?

Penguin68 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not clear whether this charge is for food waste or
> just garden waste in bags?
>
> Collecting food waste is a core and statutory duty
> of the council - such collections are already
> factored in to the Community charge. I believe it
> is brown bin garden waste which is referred to,
> and the council will (I believe) charge separately
> for the garden waste bags now given free.
> Presumably if you pay their ransom they will give
> you a sticker for your bin, or some other
> identifier. They are starting in 2 weeks time, yet
> have made no provision or plan for any of this.
> Nor any real announcement (the information being
> posted does not come from any communication made
> direct to residents, but from their tedious and
> obscure documents). And I note it takes an ex
> councillor (and not any of the incumbents) to
> confirm the rumours.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by James Barber March 22, 08:14AM

Any tax on doing the right thing results in people doing it less.
£30 per household and increase Bulky Waste collection charges are taxes.

The incumbent councillors voted for this at February Council Assembly. They must know what they voted for.
So if they know what they voted why do they need to 'come back to you' about it? Their silence is an attempt to disassociate themselves from these charges and assuming people will forget.

Hi dc,
Kingston Council is an Outer London council with very different problems with much less fly tipping and their recycling rate is much higher than ours already. I would not vote for such policies and never did in our Inner London council.
And the Lib Dems showed a number of ways the council could have made more savings to more than cover the assumed revenue. But as these ideas came from Lib Dems were rejected out of hand.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by richard tudor March 22, 05:08PM

Reply from Cllr Livingstone is response to mine re brown bins



Dear Richard
Thank you for your email. Yes, the council has decided to introduce a £30 per year charge to collect garden waste and this will start on 3 June. The charge will be for a financial year (April to March) but as the first year will be for ten months, the charge will be reduced pro rata to £25 for 2019/20. Food waste brown bins will, however, remain as a free service to Southwark residents.

The council will be writing to residents next month to outline the charge and there will be further information in May.
Most other London boroughs already charge for garden waste and £30 is the lowest level charged (one borough charges £75).
This has not been an easy decision for the council, but as you observe money does not grow on trees and this council has suffered some of the most drastic cuts in funding from government since 2010. Back then, government grants made up 72% of the council’s budget and since then the government have taken away 63p of every pound given. This is before inflation is even considered. If the council is still to provide quality services and protect what are its most expensive services – those that protect our most vulnerable residents – it is necessary for us to start charging for those things that other councils started charging for years ago.

I hope this explains why we have had to take this difficult decision.
Regards

Councillor Richard Livingstone
Cabinet member for Environment, Transport Management and Air Quality
Labour councillor for Old Kent Road Ward
London Borough of Southwark



From: richard tudor [mailto:]
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 1:38 PM
To: Livingstone, Richard; John, Peter
Subject: Brown bins.

There are many rumours regarding the possibility of charging for the use of brown bins for food waste and compostable garden waste.

Why have we not been informed about the possibility happening and consulting with residents.

Is this yet again like the charging for using parks, no one being informed just a decision taken hoping no one will find out until it is to late.It might be better for you and your fellow Cllrs to realise that money just does not appear from the money tree and life is getting more difficult meeting all these new charges.

We would all like to get Southwark's staffs cost of living rises and progression up the salary scale every year.

I would appreciate an answer.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by AylwardS March 22, 06:15PM

Richard tudor thanks for posting that answers two of the questions I have

Start date 3 June and food waste will still be collected

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by James Barber March 22, 06:31PM

For those that can't afford to pay this you could order a second green wheelie bin -[forms.southwark.gov.uk]

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by singalto March 22, 08:59PM

Southwark council will now need to fork out for those food caddies for households like mine who use their brown bin. The collection lorry will still trundle around collecting the food caddies and the brown bins which have been paid for. How will the bin men know who has paid and what is to stop people dumping their stuff in other bins? I thought we were being encouraged to recycle!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was march 23, 11:27pm by singalto.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by snoopy17 March 23, 11:10PM

if you put garden waste in the green bin, the binmen won't take it.

also whats the point in a yearly charge? you most likely won't be using the bin during the winter months.

the food waste also goes in the brown bin with the garden waste which means it goes in the same dustbin lorry, so this is outragious that they now want to charge people.

how will unemployed people pay for this charge.?
how will the old people afford this.?

it should be pay as you go, as your not gonna use it every week.

also, whats gonna happen if you throw a pot plant, bunch of flowers away will the bin men refuse to take it?.

this will encourage fly tipping of garden waste, or it will encourage people to leave their gardens grow wild.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by snoopy17 March 23, 11:16PM

recycling should be free.

most people's garden waste is their tidyt up waste. A few leaves and clippings here and there. I will not pay for this sservice as it will encourage them to charge you for the blue and green bin.

I will hid my garden waste at the bottom of the green bin, which will defeat the purpose as it means less recycling will be done.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by Rockets March 25, 06:28PM

I suspect the council's thinking here is if you have a garden and need a brown bin you can probably afford to pay for it to be emptied....all part of their Corbynista agenda.....

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by tomskip March 25, 07:26PM

I think if you have a garden in SE22 and need a brown bin emptied weekly to deal with all the cuttings, then you probably can afford £30 per year for having that waste taken away. I'm not sure I know what a Corbynista agenda is but local authorities have to find a way to pay for schools, social care and everything else while having their budgets cut and cut again under the Conservative austerity "we're all in it together" policy.

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