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The Bishop, The EDT, The Great Exhibition, the Actress or another?
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messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by jimlad48 April 12, 01:39PM

I spoke to Southwark today on this and they are fairly uncertain about what is going on - we share a brown bin and they can't advise what happens if we don't want the new service, or how it will be replaced. Its not a brilliantly executed scheme, it must be said.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by Rosetta April 12, 02:28PM

Will the brown paper sacks still be available?

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by sally buying April 12, 04:16PM

jimlad48 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I spoke to Southwark today on this and they are
> fairly uncertain about what is going on - we share
> a brown bin and they can't advise what happens if
> we don't want the new service, or how it will be
> replaced. Its not a brilliantly executed scheme,
> it must be said.

And yet the response from Cllr Richard Livingstone posted by spider69 states exactly what is happening.

Shows what a shambles Southwark is if the boss states one thing and the workers have no idea. Made up on the hoof.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by Passiflora April 12, 11:28PM

It's a shame, but you either use it or lose it.

I think I'm the only one on my street that puts out my blue/green/brown bins just outside my gate to help the bin men collect it easily. Most of their time seems to be taken up by dragging bins about that should have been left within reach on a certain day (according to leaflets put out years ago) and should be common sense.

I often hear the bin men cursing and shouting about how people have left their rubbish to be collected with no thought to them!

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by edanna April 13, 11:46AM

Rosetta Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Will the brown paper sacks still be available?

Yes at a charge of £15 for 20. And you will have to book a collection for these according to Southwark’s website. But it isn’t clear if that collection will be charged for.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by DulwichFox April 13, 12:13PM

Got a letter this morning. The charge will be £30.00 P/A for Garden waste
I do not have much garden waste and only ever dispose of garden waste a couple of times a year.

Not sure how that will work ? Will they take the large Brown bins away and replace with small brown bins.

My Kitchen caddie bin only holds one small food waste bags. I usually use 2/3 a week.

How will people be able to dispose of their food waste.

DulwichFox

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by KidKruger April 13, 12:37PM

From when does this charge start - anyone know ?
(Apols if I’ve missed that info above)

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by Penguin68 April 13, 12:50PM

Not sure how that will work ? Will they take the large Brown bins away and replace with small brown bins.

My Kitchen caddie bin only holds one small food waste bags. I usually use 2/3 a week.


There are also 'kerb-side' caddies which are about 3-4 times the cubic capacity of the kitchen caddy. I assume these will be the replacement. They are very vulnerable, when empty, to high winds so will be blown about often during collection days. Hey ho.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?attachment
Posted by Alec1 April 13, 01:39PM

hopefully this will show up, but this is letter I received today.

Attachments: Scan_0006.jpg (345.4KB)  
messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by seenbeen April 13, 03:16PM

£30 a year is not much in the scheme of things. I wonder how many people will be tempted to concrete over their gardens on the strength of it?

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by jtm April 13, 03:53PM

The website www.southwark.gov.uk/gardenwaste explains the new service and the charge £25 for June 2019- end of March 2020. The price in the letter for the collection service is £30 for a year. Not very consistent. Also only applies to homes with gardens.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was april 13, 03:58pm by jtm.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by diable rouge April 13, 04:31PM

£30 a year equates to £2.50 per month.
June '18 to Mar '20 is 10 months, which on the monthly rate equates to £25...

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by gumshoe April 13, 05:01PM

KidKruger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From when does this charge start - anyone know ?
> (Apols if I’ve missed that info above)


Starts in June, you can register from May on Southwark’s website.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by DulwichFox April 13, 05:10PM

Southwark will save money by not having to collect garden waste.

And make money by Fining people who get caught / reported by neighbours when they burn garden waste.

Its the way forward for everything these days. FINES.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by KidKruger April 13, 05:55PM

“We believe it is fairer that only those using the service contribute towards the running of it.”

In which case why not reduce the Council tax cost for those not using the brown bin and maintain the cost for those who are using the brown bin, surely the existing council tax already covers the cost of brown bin usage does it not ?

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by Oldtincan April 13, 06:58PM

KidKruger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> “We believe it is fairer that only those using the
> service contribute towards the running of it.”
>
> In which case why not reduce the Council tax cost
> for those not using the brown bin and maintain the
> cost for those who are using the brown bin, surely
> the existing council tax already covers the cost
> of brown bin usage does it not ?

Couldn’t agree more kidkruger... but I doubt it will happen.

Perhaps one cost effective solution will be to club together with neighbours and spread the cost. Just remember to cut your grass/prune your trees on different weeks!

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by KidKruger April 13, 07:19PM

Thanks Gumshoe.
I have until June to trim the shrubs and pave the lawn.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by cella April 13, 09:48PM

Still not clear where we put our food waste bags?

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by trinidad April 13, 09:54PM

On my street, The brown bin is shared between two people, so would we pay half each, or would the council charge us full price for one bin? what happens if one neighbour pays the charge, and the other does not??? flats where i am have numbers, and a flats eg Flat 1 + Flat 1a, etc....

i assume the bin would have the addess/es on the brown bin, so two addresses for us then?

--------------------
The hottest place in the world

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by singalto April 13, 10:44PM

As the trucks will still have to go up and down roads to empty the brown bins people have paid for, how does this save money? Will the same truck empty the caddies? It makes no sense to me.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by 73jem April 14, 08:35AM

So if you have paid up for your large brown bin it will be emptied if the lid is closed. Fine so far.

And if you occasionally have extra garden stuff, you can use the purchased paper sacks? but cannot leave them with the brown bin to be taken away when the brown bin is emptied, but you have to arrange for a separate collection, even if only one sack? Is this correct?

Sounds silly, surely if the sacks are already paid for they should be taken away when the bins are emptied.

But perhaps I have misunderstood.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by sally buying April 14, 10:12AM

singalto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As the trucks will still have to go up and down
> roads to empty the brown bins people have paid
> for, how does this save money? Will the same truck
> empty the caddies? It makes no sense to me.


There could now be 5 trucks. one for blue, one for green, one for brown and one for the caddy and another if you have to arrange collection for the brown bags.

All Southwark can see is how much money they can gouge from residents. No policy is ever thought through.

What is the old saying if it works why change it.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by TheArtfulDogger April 14, 10:46AM

Whilst everyone is up in arms over this stealth tax on a service that is currently free, I wonder how many of us will pay it to get rid of their once a month (on average) half filled bin of garden waste ?

As someone pointed out earlier, this will impact areas where there are gardens, so blocks of flats who don't generate garden waste won't be impacted, which kind of implies it is a tax on the southern half of the borough (where most gardens are located)

It would be interesting to see what Southwark would do if everyone turned around and said "take my brown bin away"

Three things come to mind
1. Southwark would lose out on this extra revenue stream they are expecting
2. Residents voices would be clearly heard by decision makers
3. There will be a cost to the council to supply the new caddies and recycle the old brown bins

However I suspect people will still want their garden waste removed, so the best result we can expect is that one in every hundred premises keep their bins, thus forcing Southwark to supply a collection service but for it not to be cost effective to them.

As a final question, what's going to happen at Christmas ? Will Christmas trees be collected if you haven't paid the stealth tax or will, like some other boroughs , there be abandoned Christmas trees rolling around the streets where they are just dumped thus costing the council more money to go out and pick them up?

Someone up the Southwark tree really hasn't thought this through all the way down to the grass roots

My two-pennies worth thinks there should be a movement to say no to keeping the brown bins and call Southwark's bluff

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by nxjen April 14, 11:00AM

Goodness gracious, all this anger and wasted energy over £2.50 a month. And before someone remarks it’s difficult for those on a low income, I’m on a low income and I don’t see it as a problem.

As for how many trucks, I suspect there will be the same number of trucks as there are now and food waste, garden waste and brown bags will all go in the same truck. Whether collection is paid for or not does not impact how it’s collected or how it ends up, they’re separate issues.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by TheArtfulDogger April 14, 11:27AM

Nxjen it's not about the amount, it's about the principle of charging for a currently provided free service that is generating all this upset

It's the thin end of the wedge of stealth taxes for services that are currently free, be it brown bin collection, parking in your street,park car park access or late night drinking (the newly proposed Southwark late night levy) as these things need to be nipped in the bud before other services are seen as things that can be charged for.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by Penguin68 April 14, 11:38AM

... it's not about the amount, it's about the principle of charging for a currently provided free service that is generating all this upset

Agreed, and once the principal of itemised charging is introduced, rather than charges on rateable value raised through the general community charge (which can be controlled) then further price rises can be engineered with very little chance to object - they fall outside the normal budget debates which surround setting the community charge. £30 one year can become £60 the next very easily. As can escalation of parking charges. It ceases to operate under principles of taxation. Indeed, they can become flat rate charges, without regard to ability to pay, rather like the hated and soon abandoned poll tax.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by nxjen April 14, 11:42AM

Yes it is currently a free service but not a statutory service that has to be provided and we’ve been fortunate it has been free for so long as a large proportion of other councils have been charging for it for some time and at a much higher rate.

As has been said time and time again, funding from central government has been slashed over the last 10 years: other than introducing “stealth” taxes do you have any suggestions how the council can raise revenue for much needed services throughout the borough, services that you and I possibly do not use but many people less fortunate are very dependent upon?

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by diable rouge April 14, 11:47AM

TheArtfulDogger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nxjen it's not about the amount, it's about the
> principle of charging for a currently provided
> free service that is generating all this upset

I don't see it as a free service, as far as I'm aware it's paid for via our Council Tax, unless someone knows different?...

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by Penguin68 April 14, 11:49AM

Like the NHS 'free at the point of use' I suppose. It's a shorthand.

messageRe: Brown bin collection - Council starting to charge?
Posted by nxjen April 14, 12:00PM

diable rouge Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TheArtfulDogger Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Nxjen it's not about the amount, it's about the
> > principle of charging for a currently provided
> > free service that is generating all this upset
>
> I don't see it as a free service, as far as I'm
> aware it's paid for via our Council Tax, unless
> someone knows different?...

Currently it’s paid for with revenue raised from Council Tax but the council does not have a statutory duty to provide the service from revenue raised in this way hence they are able to introduce charges.

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