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messageRe: Ultra Low Emission Zone – extension of scheme October 2021
Posted by natty01295 April 12, 10:00AM

Because they count for a small percentage of vehicles on the road
Its just a money making scheme

messageRe: Ultra Low Emission Zone – extension of scheme October 2021
Posted by Penguin68 April 12, 10:04AM

Because they count for a small percentage of vehicles on the road And clearly Rolls Royce's and Bentley's should also be excluded for the same reasons.

messageRe: Ultra Low Emission Zone – extension of scheme October 2021
Posted by ed_pete April 12, 10:14AM

natty01295 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Because they count for a small percentage of
> vehicles on the road
> Its just a money making scheme

Making money for whom exactly ?

messageRe: Ultra Low Emission Zone – extension of scheme October 2021
Posted by nxjen April 12, 10:30AM

When did dismissing something as “just a money making scheme” become a reason for it not to be valid?

messageRe: Ultra Low Emission Zone – extension of scheme October 2021
Posted by natty01295 April 12, 10:36AM

People are losing there jobs over this
People have to buy expensive vans they cant afford
* Its is just punishing people who use the road

Punishing the drivers
And BIKERS


nxjen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When did dismissing something as “just a money
> making scheme” become a reason for it not to be
> valid?

messageRe: Ultra Low Emission Zone – extension of scheme October 2021
Posted by KidKruger April 12, 02:51PM

Does anybody know if Park Lane and the route from Vauxhall to Edgeware is exempt from the ULEZ charge or not?
This is the case I believe for congestion so I was wondering if it is the same for ULEZ.

messageRe: Ultra Low Emission Zone – extension of scheme October 2021
Posted by Loutwo April 12, 03:04PM

KidKruger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does anybody know if Park Lane and the route from
> Vauxhall to Edgeware is exempt from the ULEZ
> charge or not?
> This is the case I believe for congestion so I was
> wondering if it is the same for ULEZ.

ULEZ follows the same mapped route as the congestion zone. So Vauxhall/Park Lane/ Edgware Road all remain outside the ULEZ and therefore are exempt. Which makes sense when you consider this is the main route from south London up towards the M1 and north.

Louisa.

messageRe: Ultra Low Emission Zone – extension of scheme October 2021
Posted by Willard April 12, 03:19PM

cella Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why?


Because they help ease congestion and hence already alleviate pollution.

It is hard to take this scheme seriously when disgusting noxious old black cabs are allowed to continue to pollute. I had to walk through the Euston station underground car park recently, past a line of 50 odd black cabs waiting for customers. All just sat there with their engines idling. I had to put my jumper over my mouth to stop myself being sick.

messageRe: Ultra Low Emission Zone – extension of scheme October 2021
Posted by KidKruger April 12, 03:52PM

Thanks LouTwo

messageRe: Ultra Low Emission Zone – extension of scheme October 2021
Posted by natty01295 April 12, 05:47PM

Why / Motorcycles Bikers???
Come on tell me
Small percentage on the road
Its Mostly all cars on the road So why bikers???



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was april 14, 12:25am by natty01295.

messageRe: Ultra Low Emission Zone – extension of scheme October 2021
Posted by stephent April 12, 06:36PM

Black cabs are highly regulated, and drivers have almost no choice in the vehicle they buy, so it makes sense these are outside the ULEZ scheme.
There is a separate scheme already in place to modernise the black cab fleet (indeed for new cabs the emission requirements are much stricter than ULEZ).

Willard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> cella Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Why?
>
>
> Because they help ease congestion and hence
> already alleviate pollution.
>
> It is hard to take this scheme seriously when
> disgusting noxious old black cabs are allowed to
> continue to pollute. I had to walk through the
> Euston station underground car park recently, past
> a line of 50 odd black cabs waiting for customers.
> All just sat there with their engines idling. I
> had to put my jumper over my mouth to stop myself
> being sick.

messageRe: Ultra Low Emission Zone – extension of scheme October 2021attachment
Posted by christgill April 13, 09:00PM

Sorry if it's been mentioned before, but cul-de-sacs off the wrong side of the south circular may become expensive car parks.

Residents of Allison Grove and Ryecotes Mead are potentially looking forward to driving 20 yards out of their road, spending a whole day driving outside the ULEZ and then returning home to find that those last few yards have cost them £12.50.

Attachments: ulez.jpg (92.4KB)  
messageRe: Ultra Low Emission Zone – extension of scheme October 2021
Posted by exdulwicher April 17, 02:03PM

Well currently theres a whole list of exemptions for residents etc:
[tfl.gov.uk]

So perhaps when it's extended in Octover there'll be a similar grace period covering the new zones?
Quote:
Its just a money making scheme

Good. If TfL are making money, that means it can be reinvested in better public transport and more cycle lanes and if ULEZ / congestion charging is keeping private cars off the roads then the roads will be quieter and easier to get around on anyway.

messageRe: Ultra Low Emission Zone – extension of scheme October 2021
Posted by James Barber April 18, 06:25AM

ULEZ area is free for petrol cars built 2006 or later, and diesels 2015 or later. So not exactly restricted to new cars and vans, etc.
Circa half the particulates come from non engine related activity - clutch use, brakes, etc.
The ULEZ will also mean those living in the Congestion Charging Zone will finally have an incentive to consider their car use - they currently receive 90% discount on CCZ fees.

--------------------
Regards jamesvbarber@gmail.com
former Liberal Democrat Councillor for East Dulwich Ward (2006-2018)
[www.jamesbarber.org.uk]
[twitter.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was may 17, 07:01pm by James Barber.

messageRe: Ultra Low Emission Zone – extension of scheme October 2021
Posted by Tractorlad April 18, 07:30AM

James Barber Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ULEZ area is free for petrol cars built 2006 or
> later, and diesels 2012 or later. So not exactly
> restricted to new cars and vans, etc.
> Circa half the particulates come from non engine
> related activity - clutch use, brakes, etc.
> The ULEZ will also mean those living in the
> Congestion Charging Zone will finally have an
> incentive to consider their car use - they
> currently receive 90% discount on CCZ fees.


Hi James. My diesel car was registered in July 2013 but sadly falls into the charging. I'm not sure where the 2012 information came from?

messageRe: Ultra Low Emission Zone – extension of scheme October 2021
Posted by bobbsy April 18, 08:32AM

It's basically 2016 and later for Diesel vehicles - Euro 6 standard. If your car doesn't take "ad-blue" then it's probably not compliant.

messageRe: Ultra Low Emission Zone – extension of scheme October 2021
Posted by rahrahrah May 17, 01:20PM

Willard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> cella Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Why?
>
>
> Because they help ease congestion and hence
> already alleviate pollution.
>
> It is hard to take this scheme seriously when
> disgusting noxious old black cabs are allowed to
> continue to pollute. I had to walk through the
> Euston station underground car park recently, past
> a line of 50 odd black cabs waiting for customers.
> All just sat there with their engines idling. I
> had to put my jumper over my mouth to stop myself
> being sick.

I can't believe that Black Cabs have been exempted - they're heavily polluting and drive around all day looking for fares, or sit with their engines idling. They must make up a significant percentage of the pollution in Central London.

messageRe: Ultra Low Emission Zone – extension of scheme October 2021
Posted by natty01295 May 18, 08:49AM

Motorcycles,Motor Scooters
Don't get stuck in traffic like Cars do !!

messageRe: Ultra Low Emission Zone – extension of scheme October 2021
Posted by Sally Eva May 18, 09:05AM

I don't understand the relevance of this.

natty01295 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Motorcycles,Motor Scooters
> Don't get stuck in traffic like Cars do !!

messageRe: Ultra Low Emission Zone – extension of scheme October 2021
Posted by natty01295 May 18, 09:39PM

Because they free up traffic therefore should be Exempt from ULEZ

Sally Eva Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't understand the relevance of this.
>
> natty01295 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Motorcycles,Motor Scooters
> > Don't get stuck in traffic like Cars do !!

messageRe: Ultra Low Emission Zone – extension of scheme October 2021
Posted by stephent May 18, 11:26PM

That’s why they’re exempt from the congestion charge.
The do emit pollution though and thus have to pay the ULEZ charge.

natty01295 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Because they free up traffic therefore should be
> Exempt from ULEZ
>
> Sally Eva Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I don't understand the relevance of this.
> >
> > natty01295 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Motorcycles,Motor Scooters
> > > Don't get stuck in traffic like Cars do !!

messageRe: Ultra Low Emission Zone – extension of scheme October 2021
Posted by Penguin68 May 19, 03:38PM

Clearly improving air etc. quality is a good thing, but we should not consider that that has not already been happening. From a weekly magazine this week:- the Department for the Environment and Rural Affairs has been keeping comparable statistics since 1970. Sulphur dioxide pollution in Britain has since declined by 97 per cent. That, perhaps, is not surprising, given that the main source of it was coal-burning — something which largely disappeared after the Clean Air Acts. But progress on other forms of pollution has been pretty drastic, too. Nitrogen oxide pollution is down 72 per cent, non-methane volatile organic compounds down 66 per cent, PM10s (large diameter particles of soot and other matter) down 73 per cent and PM2.5s (small diameter particles) down 79 per cent.

London's air pollution has been at 'illegal levels' since 2010 because a new target was then introduced - not because it had worsened since the previous year.

Recently increased NO2 is a direct consequence of Labour (for perfectly good anti-CO2 reasons) encouraging the use of diesel without thinking through the unintended consequences. And the recent increase in PM2.5 pollution may be directly attributable to the increase in wood-burners, against consequent on government action (in this case Tory) to reduce CO2. However, and in general, air quality even in London has been improving - I am old enough to remember London pre The Clean Air Act of 1956 - and even many years after newly cleaned indoor window sills would be black with greasy dirt within days (before the 1956 Act it was that day!).

Which is not to deny that any engine which does not burn sufficiently clean should be discouraged, through pricing if not outright ban, from being used in cities. In particular, although motorbikes are more efficient than cars in some areas (for instance producing less CO2) they are far worse in others (you cannot fit Catalytic converters on most motorcycles save the very largest) and tests have shown them to be far more polluting comparatively in many areas

[www2.greencarreports.com]

If the ULEZ hits cars, it certainly should hit motorcycles too, for those not meeting the same standards as for cars.

messageRe: Ultra Low Emission Zone – extension of scheme October 2021
Posted by MarkT May 19, 08:54PM

Do the ULEZ standards take account of the quantity of emissions per person on board?
At the same percentage, the actual amounts of any exhaust component will be greater for a larger engine.

Engine capacities of cars are perhaps 10 times the capacities of motorbikes. The average number of persons in a car is probably less than 2, not much more than a bike.

messageRe: Ultra Low Emission Zone – extension of scheme October 2021
Posted by Penguin68 May 20, 08:19AM

Do the ULEZ standards take account of the quantity of emissions per person on board?

I doubt it, and why should they? It is the absolute amount that is emitted, not the proportional amount per passenger, which is the driver here, surely? - my asthma is no less because the particles I breathed in came from a bus with 60 passengers, rather than a car with one.

At the same percentage, the actual amounts of any exhaust component will be greater for a larger engine.

It is not just the engine capacity, but whether the vehicle is fitted with exhaust cleaning technology (i.e. catalytic converter). Most bikes are too small (and the costs too high) for this to happen. So most bike engines (as regards the particulates that the CAT captures) are inherently 'dirtier' than car engines using the same fuel.

messageRe: Ultra Low Emission Zone – extension of scheme October 2021
Posted by natty01295 May 20, 09:27AM

Modern bikes are clean

Motorbikes/Motor Scooters
That are Pre-2007 EURO 3
Have to pay ULEZ Because the engines are not so clean and emit more

* There have been demonstrations to stop bikers getting charged

messageRe: Ultra Low Emission Zone – extension of scheme October 2021
Posted by Penguin68 May 20, 09:40AM

Modern bikes are clean

As are modern cars, by similar standards. The argument is about those vehicles (however many wheels they have) which don't meet the standards.

* There have been demonstrations to stop bikers getting charged

And if there were demonstrations to excuse anyone from legislation, does that make this right? Do we now rule and exercise the rule of law on the basis of demonstrations?

messageRe: Ultra Low Emission Zone – extension of scheme October 2021
Posted by rahrahrah May 20, 09:41AM

So I read somewhere that black cabs account for about 30% of the pollution in London. So why are they exempted? Makes a bit of a mockery of the whole thing imo. I also find it hard to believe that a person travelling by motorbike causes the same amount of pollution as one driving by car, but perhaps I'm wrong?

messageRe: Ultra Low Emission Zone – extension of scheme October 2021
Posted by bobbsy May 20, 09:48AM

Think I commented once before - heard a radio discussion last year about the scheme, and a report that the Mayor's office had conducted. From memory passenger cars accounted for 2% of the emissions the scheme is targeting. Taxi's, buses, heavy vehicles were the majority. It's a solely money making scheme IMO.

messageRe: Ultra Low Emission Zone – extension of scheme October 2021
Posted by Penguin68 May 20, 09:53AM

I also find it hard to believe that a person travelling by motorbike causes the same amount of pollution as one driving by car, but perhaps I'm wrong?

Does anyone suggest they do? I'm sure an elderly diesel lorry puts out more pollution than a car, but that doesn't exempt the car (if it doesn't meet the criteria) from paying the charge. You could argue that the charge should be based on the time taken on the road - a car might drive in the zone for 20 minutes in a day, a motor cycle courier the whole working day - so then the courier should be paying more than the car?...

Things like this have to be simply administered. If your vehicle doesn't meet the standard set out, you pay. If it does, you don't.

messageRe: Ultra Low Emission Zone – extension of scheme October 2021
Posted by rahrahrah May 20, 02:07PM

Penguin68 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Things like this have to be simply administered.
> If your vehicle doesn't meet the standard set out,
> you pay. If it does, you don't.

Isn't that the point though. A motorbike is (probably) less polluting than a 10 year old petrol car, but the latter is exempted, the former not? I might have this wrong, but that seems to be what was suggested above. Certainly black cabs are exempted, so it all seems a bit random tbh.

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