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The East Dulwich Forum
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messageCPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by Rockets April 12, 10:39AM

[consultations.southwark.gov.uk]


It's inbound.....

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by Rockets April 12, 10:42AM

A parking zone ‘Melbourne Grove zone’ to be implemented in the
area bordered by and including Grove Vale, by the western
boundary of the study area, by and excluding Lordship Lane and
excluding a small group of side streets to Melbourne Grove in the
south of the area (Lytcott Grove, Playfield Crescent and Colwell
Road).
There was majority support (54%) for a
zone from respondents in this area
Melbourne Grove zone to operate all day 8.30am to 6.30pm,
Monday to Friday comprising different types of bays including
permit and paid (visitors able to pay for up to 4 hours, Ł2.75 per
hour for petrol, Ł3.25 per hour for diesel), short stay bays (see


It's the whitewash many of us feared.....the fact that it is all day makes no sense as commuter parking would be impacted by a two-hour timing just as much all day. The council is showing this is nothing about the issue but all about money and that they care not on jot for Lordship Lane as a thriving business community....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was april 12, 10:53am by Rockets.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by Siduhe April 12, 10:55AM

I'm really surprised, looking at the size of the proposed area and the abutment to Lordship Lane that the recommendation is for all day restrictions.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by redpost April 12, 11:06AM

The silent majority who want controlled parking (54%) have voiced their opinion, despite all the bleating on this forum most people approve of it.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by ed_pete April 12, 11:18AM

@Redpost - not strictly true, of the whole area the study said:
The overall response showed the majority of those who responded (69%) were against a parking zone, 25%
wanting a zone and 6% were undecided. It's only in the "Melbourne Grove" area that the 54% figure applied and within that area "14 streets were in favour of a parking zone, 12 were not in favour and 8 were undecided."

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by Rockets April 12, 11:22AM

Errr not really RedPost....of the 2,244 people who responded to the consultation document who live within the boundary area 69% voted against it.

The 54% figure you state is the council's cherry-picking of supportive responses to justify the implementation in a subset of the overall consultation area....they have cut the area to give them the justification they need.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by Charles Martel April 12, 11:23AM

redpost Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The silent majority who want controlled parking
> (54%) have voiced their opinion, despite all the
> bleating on this forum most people approve of it.

You seem not to have read the report. From page 2 - 3:

The overall response showed the majority of those who responded (69%) were against a parking zone, 25%
wanting a zone and 6% were undecided. Results were very similar when excluding visitors to the area (68%,
25% and 7%).

Street-by-street analysis shows that within the whole study area 15 streets supported a parking zone while 54
streets were against. 10 streets were undecided and there was no response from two streets.

69% were against. How from that do you come to the conclusion "most people approve of it".

People close to the station have had their say and they can have a parking zone if they want one. By the time the number of residents cars displaced by the new double yellow lines are taken into account I doubt they will be that much better off.

Overall the result seems like a victory for common sense so far.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by tiddles April 12, 11:24AM

All day - well done southwark - usual f***k up

Expect lots of empty shops down that way very soon - melbourve grove and grove vale



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was april 12, 11:29am by tiddles.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by natty01295 April 12, 11:29AM

Punish the Driver Again

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by Loutwo April 12, 11:31AM

If you look at the Peckham West figures the results are much closer, in fact a slim majority are in favour. Particularly when you take into account the adjustments made for being in favour of neighbouring streets being included in a CPZ. The stress around the station and Peckham West zone are clearly very polarising. It’s not about creating a money making machine for the council, it’s about helping vulnerable and disabled people park closer to their homes during peak hours, and quite clearly a slim majority are in favour in Peckham West.

Louisa.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by derwentgrove April 12, 11:32AM

The proposals look like a sensible compromise to me.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by jamesmcash April 12, 11:32AM

Hi all

Now that we have the consultation responses and the interim report and recommendations , I am keen to hear the views of local residents on what to do next. I have written about the next stages of the process over on my thread here: [www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk]

Best wishes
James

--------------------
James McAsh - Labour Councillor for Goose Green ward
James.McAsh@Southwark.gov.uk
[twitter.com]

Surgeries: 2nd and 4th Thursdays of the month at 7pm, East Dulwich Community Centre on Darrell Road

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by mrwb April 12, 11:41AM

So the CPZ is just going to be a small area around Melbourne grove and the station?

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by TheArtfulDogger April 12, 12:37PM

Not exactly small as the majority of roads that didn't want it adjacent to lordship lane seem to have been included in it

Wouldn't it have been more sensible to just add the few roads that were vocal near the station to the dog kennel hill scheme and not make the proposed zone so big ?

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by Abe_froeman April 12, 12:43PM

Yep it's pretty much every street west of Lordship lane as far as the Townley Road East Dulwich Grove Junction and
all the way up to Grove Vale and it will be mon - fri 8,.30 to 6,30

Probably about one third of the total area consulted.

The council must be thrilled.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by Jacqui5254 April 12, 12:44PM

8.30-6.30!!!!!

I thought it was to discourage all day parking by those who went to work from the station...?

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by Abe_froeman April 12, 12:47PM

The Peckham West recommmendation is a disgrace.

Only 43% were in favour of a CPZ and they are implementing it anyway and that too will be Mon-fri 8.30 to 6.30.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by mrwb April 12, 12:50PM

Cynic in me would say they hope spill over will cause rest of the area to then want a CPZ too.

We'll see I guess.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by Abe_froeman April 12, 01:09PM

I have no doubt that is the intention!

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by El Presidente April 12, 01:11PM

The new smaller zone seems like a reasonable compromise given the support in that area. But agree, there is no need for this to run all day if the aim is to target commuters. It also shouldn't apply at weekends with that in mind.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by worldwiser April 12, 01:31PM

This is going to create utter chaos. If the two sets of recommendations are implemented the East Side of LL south of EDR will be at permanent saturation. It will lead to a swarm of additional circulating traffic on really narrow roads and means permanent misery for everyone. Whether they voted for or against.

Do nothing at all rather than this appalling 'committee' solution. What have we done to deserve this?

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by Abe_froeman April 12, 01:32PM

Yes, it means a vast amount of traffic diverted onto the southwark spine route.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by sputnick April 12, 01:33PM

Can we do this with Brexit then? Just implement it for the people who voted for it!

69% of residents voted against a CPZ. That's pretty conclusive to me. But no, hang on, Southwark Council know better, lets implement a partial CPZ - which will ultimately affect everyone - and probably be worse than having a blanket CPZ!

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by Abe_froeman April 12, 01:35PM

They are utterly contemptible.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by first mate April 12, 01:42PM

Take a look at Cllr James Cash' comments on his thread. He is making some sensible suggestions, in that it seems there may be room for tweaks. He notes that 4 of the streets in the Melbourne Grove CPZ proposal were overall anti CPZ and that perhaps these should be excluded and CPZ line drawn closer to the station. He argues the 4 currently inlcuded roads are not really used for station parking but more by shoppers. Excluding these would help shops and traders who fear impact of CPZ.

I'd support this.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by Rockets April 12, 02:01PM

I don't think the council have a mandate to impose this - this is madness. Take a look at the numbers...

Street-by-street analysis shows that within the whole study area 15 streets supported a parking zone while 54
streets were against. 10 streets were undecided and there was no response from two streets. Figure 2 below
shows, based on responses, majority support in green, majority against in red, and undecided in blue.

So because 18% of the total streets covered voted for a CPZ everyone gets impacted.....is this the new democracy?

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by TheArtfulDogger April 12, 02:55PM

I am concerned how the council manipulate figures to get the results they want

Peckham west
There was no clear majority in response to the question do you want a parking zone in your street with 48% against a parking zone, 43% wanting a zone and 9% were undecided. Results were very similar when excluding visitors to the area (49%, 42% and 9%) with 11 streets in favour and 13 streets not in favour and 8 undecided.

Sorry but 48% against vs. 43% for is a clear majority against

But oh no, the council then used their second question to reverse those figures

If the figures were closer (say 46 vs. 45%) then the secondary question could reasonably be considered but wth the larger result against it shouldn't even be a factor

If Peckham west is implemented right up to East Dulwich Road based on these flawed results, and the smaller East Dulwich zone is also implemented then there will be increased pressure on the rest of East Dulwich, resulting in a new CPZ consultation in a few years

It appears the old adage of "there are lies, damn lies and there are statistics" can be updated to "there are lies, damn lies and there are council statistics"

Hopefully the local councillors will support the majority in both consultation areas who didn't want a CPZ by rejecting the officers recommendations

Equally I would encourage people to raise this matter at the community council meeting most appropriate to their zone to try and thwart this blatent misrepresentation of the results in both areas

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by Abe_froeman April 12, 03:13PM

Yes very cynical of them to say "no majority" (i.e. less than 50% for any 1 option) when the most popular option is blindingly obvious.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by mikeb April 12, 03:29PM

This isn't Brexit: there was a very clear vote against change. If Southwark had thought the constituency was wrong or too large, then they should have settled this before seeking views.

Reprehensible gerrymandering.

And while we're at it, charging diesels more demonstrates that this was never about parking problems.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by Sporthuntor April 12, 03:35PM

What an absolute shower the Council and our local councillors are. Anti-democratic.

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