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messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by seenbeen August 02, 12:56PM

This is going to increase pollution around the other side of LL as people drive round and round to find a space. I frequently walk from Goodrich Road to North Cross and you see the same cars coming backwards and forwards...it can only get worse

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by harold76 August 02, 01:35PM

Nope - Ashbourne, Chesterfield and Bassano street will be the parking lot (more than now) for those avoiding the CPZ.
Hurrah...(from a resident of Chesterfield.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by eastdulwichlocal99 August 02, 02:38PM

As per the posted JPEG from Charles Martel, these roads are included in the CPZ which is what the original consultation results also confirmed. I'm unsure as to why they would have changed and on what basis..

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by first mate August 02, 03:24PM

I had thought it was a fairly clear no from streets on the south side of Melbourne Grove. James Mc Cash said he had been pushing hard for these roads not to be included as that was what residents wanted, just as the majority of residents close to the station said they did want CPZ. How curious then if just one man, Cllr Livingstone, can go with a majority 'vote' in one area but ignore it in another?

The proposal was that Chesterfield, Ashbourne, Bassano were not in the CPZ. I hope that has been upheld.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was august 02, 03:25pm by first mate.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by eastdulwichlocal99 August 02, 03:37PM

Not correct I'm afraid.

The map clearly shows Chesterfield, Blackwater and the entire stretch of Melbourne highlighted in blue, not red. Only Ashbourne was red - who themselves have driveways so the issue of a CPZ is less to them.

If Glengarry, Tell and Mathham were highlighted in blue then why should they get a CPZ over Chesterfield, Blackwater and the southern part of Melbourne who also voted the same way? That is simply not fair.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was august 02, 03:38pm by eastdulwichlocal99.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by first mate August 02, 03:57PM

Perhaps I can quite an earlier poster who responded to Cllr McAsh as follows:

"In response to question 1, I think the map in Figure 2 would be much more informative if Melbourne Grove was split into two. The responses showed that the section north of EDG is clearly in favour of a CPZ (hence it should be coloured green) and the section south of EDG is clearly against a CPZ (hence it should be coloured red). This would make it easier to see that the proposed zone is too big. Your suggestion of removing Melbourne Grove (south), Blackwater Street, Bassano Street, Chesterfield Grove and Ashbourne Grove from the proposed CPZ is a good one. None of these roads showed a clear majority in favour of a CPZ, with some clearly against a CPZ, so it seems unfair to impose one on them".

A number of streets were undecided and Ashbourne against, that means that for that area the majority is agianst CPZ. We were told that around the station 54% are in favour, therefore CPZ will be implemented. The same logic must be applied
throughout.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was august 02, 03:59pm by first mate.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by eastdulwichlocal99 August 02, 04:30PM

I’m sorry but your logic is flawed because on this basis Elsie Road should be excluded given it is red.

Using East Dulwich Grove as a boundary for ‘north’ and ‘south’ was never in the consultation and on this basis Elsie should be excluded.

The entire point of the CPZ was deter commuters and you now have a potential structure whereby certain roads that are closer to the station are excluded than those that are included.

Can you imagine the chaos, congestion and pollution this will now cause on excluded roads? Is this honestly the right thing to do? Or are you the owner of several vehicles, possibly trade, whereby the current situation suits you just fine...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was august 02, 04:33pm by eastdulwichlocal99.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by Penguin68 August 02, 04:57PM

The entire point of the CPZ was deter commuters

No, the entire point of the CPZ was to raise revenue for Southwark and was a formal part of Southwark's declared plan to massively reduce car usage (ideally stop it) within the borough, without regard to who is using the vehicles. There has never been clear evidence that the 'commuters' to be deterred are not those coming to work and serve the ED community, and certainly little evidence as to the scale and scope of the dreaded 'through' commuter.

This was all hearsay and guesswork.

Many people who 'voted' for the CPZ may have thought they were detering commuters, but this was a supposition only.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by Charles Martel August 02, 05:09PM

eastdulwichlocal99 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As per the posted JPEG from Charles Martel, these
> roads are included in the CPZ which is what the
> original consultation results also confirmed. I'm
> unsure as to why they would have changed and on
> what basis..

Sorry if it was confusing. That map is a screen grab from the initial consultation results document where the streets inside the revised boundary are highlighted in yellow. The boundaries were redrawn after the councillors meeting at the end of April to only include the area north of Ashbourne Grove. I do not believe this boundary has changed.

The point is that the number of parking spaces available to residents in the zone is going to be decreased by the increase in double yellow lines, particularly on Elsie Road. Even more so were Ashbourne Grove were to be included. As it is the zone is small enough that the number of cars displaced by it will be relatively small. The surrounding streets are hardly empty of cars at present anyway which obviously limits the amount of additional parking that is possible in any one place. With a large area around a small CPZ the displacement problem should be self limiting, as it is now. The CPZ proposal was made by the council on the basis of making it easier for residents to park their cars, not the abolition of resident parking.

seenbeen wrote:
>This is going to increase pollution around the other side of LL as people drive round and round to find a space.

Almost all of the pollution in this area is from through traffic on Lordship Lane, East Dulwich Grove, Dog Kennel Hill and East Dulwich Road where you regularly see queues of stationary traffic in the morning and evening. A CPZ is going to do precisely nothing to change this. Catford has a CPZ which did nothing to prevent the pollution that is supposed to have played a role in the death of Ella Kissi-Debrah. Why? Because a CPZ does nothing to reduce through traffic and therefore nothing to reduce the pollution it creates.

People are still going to drive down Dog Kennel Hill and East Dulwich Grove then turn into Melbourne Grove as a shortcut between these two main roads and, CPZ or no CPZ, they are still going to get stuck trying to pass each other. [twitter.com]

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by eastdulwichlocal99 August 02, 05:10PM

This is a fair comment although it still fails to explain the logic in applying the CPZ boundaries.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by first mate August 02, 07:23PM

Thanks Charles for that clarification.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by first mate August 02, 07:35PM

eastdulwichlocal99 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is a fair comment although it still fails to
> explain the logic in applying the CPZ boundaries.

I stand to be corrected but I suspect part of the issue is with Melbourne Grove. It is a long road and I think only around a third of it, closest to the station, was in favour of CPZ. The rest against. However, if it was viewed as one long road it would be a majority against. I think this might account for the North South approach that was introduced by the Council.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by Charles Martel August 13, 08:28PM

Decision details from the council. The new outline of the zone and the bays on individual roads are in appendix 1.

[moderngov.southwark.gov.uk]

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by Abe_froeman August 13, 08:45PM

Sounds like we should just nuke Melbourne Grove from orbit.

Problem solved...

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by ED Light August 13, 09:46PM

How can such an anti-democratic decision stand?
East Dulwich ward chose no CPZ.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by first mate August 14, 06:53AM

The biggest scandal is how much weight the Council placed on "only" taking views on a street by street basis not by "area"- see earlier posts from Cllr McAsh as an example. Yet when it suits the Council, Melbourne Grove is dealt with as though it is two separate roads even though the majority was against CPZ, and roads closest to the station, school and health centre, are viewed as an "area". Of course, the "area" of East Dulwich was clearly against CPZ.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was august 14, 06:55am by first mate.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by Peckhamnearbe August 14, 08:36AM

Yes I agree. To paint Blair/Brown supporting as “centerist” is off the mark with their awful track record of Tory-lite policies which have bankrupted society literally and metaphorically. Hard right can lead to a swing to the other side as people express their disgust.
Stick to the issue of the impact of the CPZ please.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by cella August 14, 12:33PM

Peckhamnearbe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes I agree. To paint Blair/Brown supporting as
> “centerist” is off the mark with their awful track
> record of Tory-lite policies which have bankrupted
> society literally and metaphorically. Hard right
> can lead to a swing to the other side as people
> express their disgust.
> Stick to the issue of the impact of the CPZ
> please.


What are you referring to in the first bit?

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by GrumpyGranny August 20, 05:25PM

I am in a parking zone in Camberwell. Yes the residents can park easier now BUT there are lots of downsides. I'd say partial timings is the only way to go (everywhere in the UK).

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by first mate August 20, 05:59PM

Can you elaborate please GrumpyGranny?

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