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messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by Monkey 12 April, 2019 15:41

Tell me about it, Sporthuntor. Trying to get councillors to answer my very simple questions on secondary school places. Impossible to get any of them to answer.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by Pugwash 12 April, 2019 16:38

I did hear from one councillor that further consultations will be made with residents around the station area as to whether it is to be an all day or part day CPZ - I got the impression that Southwark were looking at a 11 - 1 pm CPZ.

Also you notice in the consultation that schools had raised concerns that a CPZ will have an impact of teacher recruitment/stability.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by 1921 14 April, 2019 14:02

Hi James

Can you please find out if the whole day CPZ does not come into place and it is reduced to 2 hours as was the majority vote how the council plan to deal with the problem of people parking and then paying at a later time. I am aware of several people who park at Herne Hill and set phone alarm reminders to pay for the parking at noon.

Thank you

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by Jacqui5254 14 April, 2019 14:25

Surely a 'no return within [a certain time period]', as is common on many signs, would ensure that the driver has to move the car?


1921 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi James
>
> Can you please find out if the whole day CPZ does
> not come into place and it is reduced to 2 hours
> as was the majority vote how the council plan to
> deal with the problem of people parking and then
> paying at a later time. I am aware of several
> people who park at Herne Hill and set phone alarm
> reminders to pay for the parking at noon.
>
> Thank you

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by goldilocks 14 April, 2019 16:20

You need to look at the proposals for the street you are concerned about on this. Herne Hill May all be resident or pay and display, the East Dulwich cpz were a mix of pay and display only, resident only, and pay and display and residents only. The latter category would be affected in the scenario you describe.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by MarkT 14 April, 2019 23:06

The "no return rule" will only work if the maximum parking period is less than the CPZ hours. E.g CPZ operates 12-2pm; maximum pay to park time 1 hour. If you are allowed to park for the full controlled period, you can park all day and pay by phone.

There is however another problem. Some of the pay to park bays, e.g. by the shops at the North section of Melbourne Grove, are also open to resident permit holders. With the loss of parking space from double yellow lines, residents will, no doubt, occupy those dual purpose bays. A resident weekend driver could block a dual purpose bay for the whole week, leaving no space for shoppers.

Short term, however that may not come to light. Residents do not all immediately buy their permits. Why buy a permit
if you can park a few streets away for free. When the CPZ starts, the Council can take nice photos to show 40% reduction in parked cars to prove it "works", with neighbouring streets parked to capacity, so the council can take lovely photos to show the nightmare of uncontrolled parking.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by singalto 14 April, 2019 23:45

Weve seen a substantial increase in council tax, an unwanted CPZ is creeping in, we are going to be charge for the disposal of garden waste and parking charges in our local parks is being introduced. What else can the council charge for next? Oh well, we have the extended ULEZ to look forward to!

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by Curmudgeon 15 April, 2019 08:32

Surely any roads not covered by the restrictions will suffer from excessive demand in the future

And a whole day parking strategy is fairly extreme based on the consultation and the impact on our local shops.

This does seem rather a debatable conclusion to a public vote given the information contained within the report



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit was 2019:04:16:13:04:02 by Curmudgeon.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by nxjen 15 April, 2019 08:47

It was not a public vote, nor a referendum, it was a consultation.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by Reg Smeeton 15 April, 2019 09:25

Sorry to be dim, but can somebody explain to me the colour coding of the roads in the map: what does red/green/blue represent (I can't see a key anywhere).

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by MarkT 15 April, 2019 09:57

Reg, there's an "overview map" which includes the key, and shows the layout of maps 1-5

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by Reg Smeeton 15 April, 2019 10:09

Now I'm being really dim - I clicked on the link in the OP - where is this overview map? Which page? All I see is Fig 2, 3 etc - each with roads highlighted in red blue or green. I don't see a key anywhere.

But I'll be happy if somebody just tells me:
Green = ?
Blue = ?
Red = ?

MarkT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Reg, there's an "overview map" which includes the
> key, and shows the layout of maps 1-5

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by Charles Martel 15 April, 2019 10:13

Reg Smeeton Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Now I'm being really dim - I clicked on the link
> in the OP - where is this overview map? Which
> page? All I see is Fig 2, 3 etc - each with roads
> highlighted in red blue or green. I don't see a
> key anywhere.
>
> But I'll be happy if somebody just tells me:
> Green = ?
> Blue = ?
> Red = ?

Figure 2 shows, based on responses, majority support in green, majority against in red, and undecided in blue.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by MarkT 15 April, 2019 10:39

Reg,
sorry, I misread your query. (I thought you were referring to the consultation pack)
The last paragraph on page 3, quoted by Charles Martel, also applies to all the other maps
MarkT,

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by Jules-and-Boo 16 April, 2019 09:49

if anything, it should be free parking up to an hour (for visits to doctor, pharma etc)....you get a little sticker saying what time you arrived and put it in the window.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by AylwardS 16 April, 2019 10:33

1921 As has been said a no return rule will stop people paying to park from parking and then setting a reminder as it stops a vehicle parking all day. The same no return rule can be applied to either shared use or paid for bays. The order for zone Q (Dog Kennel Hill) has the following and Id expect a similar provision in the East Dulwich CPZ order if its part day.

to provide 'shared-use' parking places, in which either:- (i) vehicles which have paid the parking charge of 2.75 per hour (using 'Pay by Phone') may be left for up to two hours (provided no vehicle may return to a parking place on that same day), or (ii) vehicles issued with a valid residents' permit, valid business permit or valid visitors' permit may be left without time limit, between the hours of 11 am and 1 pm on Mondays to Fridays inclusive, in:

As you can see no vehicle that has paid can not stay more than the two hour limit, I believe someone could park in the morning, call and pay but when the paid for time was up they cant park any longer in the same place so could not park all day. We dont live in one of the roads with bays but there certainly was nothing said on here after the zone was introduced to indicate problems with people parking all day. Residents or their visitors with a permit can stay as long as they need. I think that should stop what you ask about.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by MarkT 16 April, 2019 11:53

"Providing no vehicle may return to a parking place on that same day"

So the parking charges operate for 2 hours - 11am to 1pm. But, even if you pay to park for those 2 hours you can then be fined for staying for more than 2, or returning, any time on the same day, when the parking is free.

"no vehicle" includes permit holders, so they could also be fined, for using a shared space twice in a day.

That looks like not a 2 hour/5 day but a 24/7 restriction. Would it allow free parking from 1.01pm till midnight?

It does, however seem that residents can't totally block the shared-use bay, so along with all the double yellow lines residents are losing quite a lot of parking.
MarkT

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by TheArtfulDogger 29 June, 2019 12:12

And you wonder why Southwark are so keen to introduce a CPZ borough wide

[www.bbc.co.uk]

Nothing to do with pollution or controlling parking I speculate

Still no decision has been published on this (yet)

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by KidKruger 29 June, 2019 23:43

Absolutely this is what its all about.
Why not quit the lies and tell us they are milking the residents for every penny they can !

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by macutd 30 June, 2019 01:19

let's protest at the council offices

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by d.b 01 July, 2019 15:47

Yes no doubt this is what it's all about - CPZ, charging for brown bins, the council is trying to generate as much money as it can.

The reason should be obvious. Councils have been absolutely gutted financially by successive governments' austerity cutting the money they get from central government and capping the amount they can charge in council tax. Nonetheless Southwark council has obligations to provide critical services and so it looks for every penny it can get.

I don't blame them exactly, but I think it would be more honest (and more efficient) just to take the money in council tax - if they were allowed. Doing it this way creates hassle and bureaucracy, and causes a deterrent effect on our high street.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by Penguin68 01 July, 2019 16:12

the council is trying to generate as much money as it can

And it is doing so in parts of the budget which are not open to outside scrutiny - it could increase charges 1000 fold and nothing (local elections apart) could stop them. As long as their main electorate is not damaged themselves directly by these charges (i.e. don't have gardens or cars) they will remain in power indefinitely, redistributing wealth as they see fit. The Council Tax is of course open to scrutiny, and central government oversight, which is why they are moving such things as waste collection out of that space whilst they can, actually against government advice.

We have all seen examples of waste (this scheme is one of them, the costs will surely outweigh any revenues, at least in this fiscal) - but this is all about moving charges away from any central control, when 'small' fees can swiftly become big ones.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by KidKruger 01 July, 2019 18:05

So whats to stop them moving / ALL charges out of the council tax space ?
Schools, street cleaning, policing, why stop ?!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2019:07:02:06:07:14 by KidKruger.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by Rockets 01 July, 2019 19:08

It's the council's own version of left-wing privatisation - take something that was previously funded centrally and pass the cost on to those deemed able to afford it (CPZ, garden waste bins, park car parking).

They are at pains to point out that they cannot use money raised from, say, the CPZ or parking fines to fund other services so, at the end of every year, have to fritter their 7m+ surplus on white-elephant projects like the replacement of paving slabs and kerbs across the East Dulwich ward, which is ongoing at present.

I very much suspect that should a Labour government prevail at the next election those rules of redistribution of raised funds will be loosened and anyone deemed wealthy enough to own, say, a car or garden will find such things are but the tip of the stealth-tax iceberg.

The damage the current Labour party is doing to itself is that it is so far left that many are crying out for a more centrist option and the problem is rife throughout the party and running (through Momentum) to local council officials and policy. East Dulwich (and other such areas that have been rejuvenated) are seen as fair game and a resource fit for harvesting. At the macro level this is why rumours of a leadership challenge are starting to circulate as elements within try desperately to pull power away from the unions and the Marxists and back towards a more centrist (and they believe more electable) stance.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by seenbeen 01 July, 2019 19:52

They should repaint the zebras outside Alleyn's - nearly mowed a kid down today!

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by sally buying 01 July, 2019 19:55

Most of the zebras should be repainted many you cannot see.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by seenbeen 02 July, 2019 00:42

Yes- I actually meant the Charter School ones- and they could repaint the triangles on the speed bumps while they are at it

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by KidKruger 02 July, 2019 06:07

....thatll be an extra 15 per month charge besides your council tax, please !!

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by rahrahrah 02 July, 2019 09:19

Why don't they spend the money raised on extending the Santander hire bike scheme to Southwark?

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by rahrahrah 02 July, 2019 09:21

... Or create segregated cycle lanes like they have in Camden and many other Boroughs (as opposed to painting a bike symbol on a few roads).

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