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messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by TheArtfulDogger July 23, 06:25PM

In about week we may possible conceptually hear what the decision is as the consultation process states

"Decision due: Not before 31 Jul 2019 by Cabinet Member for Environment, Transport and the Climate Emergency"

Interesting that it's roughly timed for the peak of school summer holidays when people are away

Watch that space (it may have a CPZ bay in it before you know)

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by rollflick July 24, 08:57AM

The final report is now online [moderngov.southwark.gov.uk]
A map of the zone and precise parking bays is in Appendix 1

In short it proposes a combined zone for Peckham West and small part of ED to operate 9-11am Monday to Friday. If Cllr Livingstone decides in favour then this will go to statutory consultation.

Despite local councillors protesting about bus cuts, it no longer includes any measures to reduce bus delays on Lordship Lane, increasing the likelihood of further cuts as TfL's financial position continues to worsen. Although the healthy streets proposals in the wider area (now outside the proposed zone) achieved strong support, these aren't going ahead. Due to being scaled back, the proposals will have negligible impacts on air pollution despite levels exceeding legal limits now and even in 2025 still at one ED junction. Also there's no mention of the new policy to implement a CPZ across the borough, considered vital by the cabinet three months ago to tackle congestion and climate change. In short it's hard to see how these amended proposals could be lawfully approved, another right old mess.

The revised times seem the worst of all worlds: the zone would start unnecessarily early but won't tackle parking pressures at other times of the day. And officers remain blissfully unaware of the growing numbers of long stayers (e.g. see threads on here about abandoned taxis & commercial vehicles) that will simply be displaced to the streets around the leisure centre and east side of Lordship Lane.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by first mate July 24, 09:41AM

If it exists could someone post a map for the proposed ED CPZ? I am unable to get onto the link.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by Peckhamgatecrasher July 24, 10:16AM

Why does Adys Road need a 'parklet' (awful word) when there is a play park and a green?

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....attachment
Posted by Siduhe July 24, 03:30PM

first mate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If it exists could someone post a map for the
> proposed ED CPZ? I am unable to get onto the link.

first mate - I've done a quick stitch together of the maps - it's not the best job but may help. I'll say this, Southwark don't make it easy to work out...

Attachments: CPZ.pdf (578.7KB)  
messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....attachment
Posted by nxjen July 24, 04:50PM

There is a map (attached) of the proposed revised ED and Peckham West CPZ on page 4 of the report. This just shows the area it may cover without the details of the various types of parking.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was july 24, 04:52pm by nxjen.

Attachments: 6A284FAD-059C-425C-B400-F0194111A45C.jpeg (442KB)  
messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by first mate July 24, 05:35PM

Many thanks to you both.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by tortor July 26, 07:47AM

What do people think of this plan? Strikes me as a bit of a cop out. And the worst news for people living in southern Melbourne Grove, Ashbourne and Chesterfield Grove, who will now bear (even more) of the brunt of cars "displaced" from northern Melbourne Grove.

If the argument for restrictions is that it's to stop commuters parking (which seems to be the case) then they need to cover all the roads where it's feasible for commuters to park and still reasonably walk to the station.

It really seems the worst of both worlds to me, but maybe I'm just being pessimistic!

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by first mate July 26, 08:49AM

The Council want mass CPZ so either Cllr Livinstone will ignore current recommendations and extend it anyhow or inevitable parking displacement will result in further CPZ sooner or later. The Council want to give the impression of being reasonable etc.. but in reality the utterly cynical extension of double yellow lines indicates the real agenda.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was july 26, 08:51am by first mate.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by rahrahrah July 26, 09:26AM

If this was really about improving the environment / safer streets, they would pedestrianising, adding segregated bike lanes and fund the expansion of Boris bikes like every other zone 2 borough. They would also stop granting permission for people to concrete over their front gardens and put in drop kerbs. This whole thing is about drivers sense of entitlement and territoriality over public space, wrapped up as environmentalism.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by harold76 July 26, 09:30AM

tortor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What do people think of this plan? Strikes me as a
> bit of a cop out. And the worst news for people
> living in southern Melbourne Grove, Ashbourne and
> Chesterfield Grove, who will now bear (even more)
> of the brunt of cars "displaced" from northern
> Melbourne Grove.
>
> If the argument for restrictions is that it's to
> stop commuters parking (which seems to be the
> case) then they need to cover all the roads where
> it's feasible for commuters to park and still
> reasonably walk to the station.
>
> It really seems the worst of both worlds to me,
> but maybe I'm just being pessimistic!

Completely agree. It's a pretty obvious outcome of the proposals as they stand. Melbourne South, Ashbourne and Chesterfield are going to bear the brunt of displaced parking commuters, and even residents of the new CPZ zone who don't want to buy a residents permit.
Dos anyone know why they are excluding these roads from the proposals?

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by KidKruger July 26, 10:13AM

Basically it's painting-by-numbers, by stealth.
The eventual outcome entirely predictable (in a year or two we can refer to this thread for evidence of that!).

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by Penguin68 July 26, 10:41AM

Dos anyone know why they are excluding these roads from the proposals?

Because the people who lived in those roads (in their 'survey') were clear that they were not in favour of a CPZ. The apparat will of course hope that the parking pressure that will be put on them will force them to acquiesce 'down the line' and so eventually the pervasive stench of paid for parking on all our roads will be achieved. And then watch the annual fees hike!.

If they cared about pollution, of course they would either exempt electric cars from their system, or significantly reduce their fees, but of course this is primarily about revenue generation (and always has been) and nothing about congestion and pollution. And of course a left-wing view that car ownership, in and of itself, is wicked, and should be stamped out. Without any attempts actually to increase or indeed stand against the diminution of local public transport services.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by KidKruger July 26, 10:55AM

"Without any attempts actually to increase or indeed stand against the diminution of local public transport services."

This.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by Rockets July 26, 04:19PM

The council has their wish for a CPZ in East Dulwich and, by hook or by crook, they got it. The outcome of this "consultation" was never in doubt - the council wanted a CPZ in East Dulwich not for the better of the environment or the people who live in the area but for them - it's a cash cow - Southwark made a 6m+ surplus from parking fines, CPZ etc and this is part of their revenue strategy - along with charging for garden waste collections and parking at parks.

They now have their foot in the door in East Dulwich and will soon expand it on the basis of the displacement caused by the small area getting it in this round. This is likely to be the beginning of the end of Lordship Lane and surrounding areas as we know it (I wonder how the traders on Grove Vale feel as the overly long hours of operation WILL impact their businesses) but then the hard-left leaning council cares not one jot for the "affluent" people (as they see it) living or trading in the area - they think everyone has money to burn and want their share of it.

The moral of this story - you can't trust politicians (of any political persuasion) - they will all lie to, mislead, hoodwink and generally use their constituents for their own benefit.

This whole process merely highlights everything that is wrong with politics nowadays.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by Chick July 26, 06:06PM

Where do you get off? It's anything but "hard-left"

"but then the hard-left leaning council cares not one jot for the "affluent" people (as they see it) living or trading in the area"

Do you have any evidence?

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by Rockets July 26, 07:43PM

Where I get off very much depends on to where I might be travelling....winking smiley

For a start our local Goose Green ward councillor is a self-proclaimed Marxist....and Marxism is now rife within the Labour party at all levels from Jeremy Corbyn through to local councillors.

Since Jeremy Corbyn took leadership of the Labour party there has been a root and branch effort to clear the party, at all levels, of anyone with more centrist views and this has filtered all the way through to local councils and councillors. It is why Tom Watson set-up a more centrist group to give Labour MPs who weren't hard-left leaning a chance to have their voice heard and to help determine policy as policy-making had been overrun by Marxist leaning members.

Additionally, hard-left groups like Momentum (or Maomentum as many centrist Labour party members refer to it) have been targeting Labour councils to oust more centrist Labour members to be replaced by Corbynistas with more hardline left leanings. They have been running training courses for local councillors to help attack the seats and prepare them for roles.

This has impacted Soutwark and the policies and approaches we are now seeing are a reflection of this.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by cella July 26, 07:51PM

Rockets Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Where I get off very much depends on to where I
> might be travelling....winking smiley
>
> For a start our local Goose Green ward councillor
> is a self-proclaimed Marxist....and Marxism is now
> rife within the Labour party at all levels from
> Jeremy Corbyn through to local councillors.
>
> Since Jeremy Corbyn took leadership of the Labour
> party there has been a root and branch effort to
> clear the party, at all levels, of anyone with
> more centrist views and this has filtered all the
> way through to local councils and councillors. It
> is why Tom Watson set-up a more centrist group to
> give Labour MPs who weren't hard-left leaning a
> chance to have their voice heard and to help
> determine policy as policy-making had been overrun
> by Marxist leaning members.
>
> Additionally, hard-left groups like Momentum (or
> Maomentum as many centrist Labour party members
> refer to it) have been targeting Labour councils
> to oust more centrist Labour members to be
> replaced by Corbynistas with more hardline left
> leanings. They have been running training courses
> for local councillors to help attack the seats and
> prepare them for roles.
>
> This has impacted Soutwark and the policies and
> approaches we are now seeing are a reflection of
> this.


Massively strong overreaction to a comparatively minor single issue in the area.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by Rockets July 26, 08:19PM

Hardly, ever since the Lib Dems lost their council seats the council has had carte-blanche to do as they please. And they have been.

The CPZ, and the charging for waste collections, and the charging for park car parks, I can assure, are but the tip of the iceberg for East Dulwich and surrounding areas. So it isn't a single issue, nor is the CPZ a minor issue for Lordship Lane - as has been debated ad infinitum on this forum by those concerned about its impact on the majority who live in the area.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by cella July 26, 09:48PM

I was referring to the cpz a propos the title. Most other local councils, regardless of political affinity, have similiarly introduced charges for certain services and have introduced cpz schemes after consultation. I am in favour of the cpz but less so on the garden waste charge as it may be counter productive. The idea that the current council is Marxist is laughable.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by jamesmcash July 27, 11:39AM

Hi all

The council's proposals are roughly in line with what we local councillors suggested as a compromise option (outlined here: [www.jamesmcash.com]).

However there's a couple of issues outstanding which I want to look into further.

The first is the times of operation. There was a clear majority in the 'Grove Vale' area for an all day CPZ but a majority for a partial CPZ in the 'Peckham West' area. I'm keen to work out how we can reconcile this.

The second is about the boundary on Melbourne Grove. As it stands, the road is split in two at East Dulwich Grove but it seems like there is strong support from residents in the section south of East Dulwich Grove but north of Ashbourne Grove or Chesterfield Grove for it to be extended slightly. I'm looking into how the numbers stack up on this.

If you live in the proposed area, or in this section of Melbourne Grove then I'd be happy to hear from you by email: James.McAsh@southwark.gov.uk

I've been scouring through Das Capital but it seems that Marx is silent on these issues.

Best wishes
James

--------------------
James McAsh - Labour Councillor for Goose Green ward
James.McAsh@Southwark.gov.uk
[www.jamesmcash.com] [twitter.com]

Surgeries: 2nd and 4th Thursdays of the month at 7pm, East Dulwich Community Centre on Darrell Road

Sign up to the Goose Green councillor newsletter: [www.jamesmcash.com]

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by Penguin68 July 27, 11:42AM

'strong support from residents in the section south of East Dulwich Grove but north of Ashbourne Grove or Chesterfield Grove for it to be extended slightly.'

And so the zone creeps on and on...

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by Penguin68 July 27, 02:28PM

[www.petrolprices.com]

'Nuff said.... (Southwark is not the worst London offender - but clearly the motorist is the council milch cow de nos jours.)

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by Jim1234 July 27, 11:28PM

Hilarious! This is the opposite of Marxism - it's a poll tax. If anyone in the labour party is to blame for this ideologically (they're not) then it would be the centerists.

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by springfleur55 July 27, 11:47PM

There was a clear majority in the 'Grove Vale' area for an all day CPZ but a majority for a partial CPZ in the 'Peckham West' area. I'm keen to work out how we can reconcile this.


What is hard to reconcile here? Why can't the two areas both get what they asked for?

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by Rockets July 28, 12:13AM

James,
Was the support for the extension communicated via the consultation data or post publication of the proposals? Is it that upon seeing which streets are going to get a CPZ those in neighbouring streets have communicated concerns about displacement? Are you not opening yourself up to criticism of conducting a second consultation by canvassing input from those roads, per your note above?

Is the council still withholding the raw data from the consultation from those who have requested it?

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by noelewilson July 28, 07:08AM

And so the zone creeps on and on...

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by noelewilson July 28, 07:39AM

its upsetting to see james ,sill wants to go on and on to wants to increase it

messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....attachment
Posted by Charles Martel August 02, 01:50AM

From his twitter it would appear Cllr. Livingstone has agreed the report, but has returned to two separate CPZ areas with the East Dulwich side operating all day.

[twitter.com]

It will be interesting to see the final plan. A previous council survey in 2011 for the last CPZ attempt found that an average of 80% of cars parked in the area then under consideration belonged to residents, 20% to non residents. How much of the 20% freed up by the CPZ will be lost to the planned number of new double yellow lines? It would seem from looking at the old plan for Elsie Road this would be net negative for residents parking.

[moderngov.southwark.gov.uk] pg33

Attachments: new_cpz_area2.jpg (474.1KB)  
messageRe: CPZ...the results are in.....brace yourselves....
Posted by first mate August 02, 07:55AM

Are Ashbourne, Chesterfield and Bassano street inside the CPZ?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was august 02, 07:55am by first mate.

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