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The East Dulwich Forum
Would you recommend your East Dulwich doctor, dentist or butcher?
messageDawsons Hill
Posted by EDNate June 03, 01:39PM

My partner was just walking our golden retriever up Dawsons hill, and was told by someone coming down that there are people taking photos on the hill to fine people 100£ if walking their dogs off the lead.

Is this an existing or new rule ? If an existing rule has anyone encountered these dog police before? I imagine them jumping out of bushes with huge camera lenses or sitting on top of the Dawsons estate snapping with sniper lenses.

We have lived in the area for one year. I don't know if I have unknowingly been playing fetch "illegally" or there is a new rule, but this saddens me as one of my favorite things to do is play fetch with our dog up there.

I know there are irresponsible owners and dangerous dogs out there, but it seems sad that responsible dog owners with statistically harmless breeds should lose out on a beautiful local public space financed by our extortionate council tax.

Thoughts ? (p.s. I mean no offence to anyone that has had bad experiences with off the lead dogs, I have been a victim myself in years past)

messageRe: Dawsons Hill
Posted by Abe_froeman June 03, 02:54PM

"clear up your dog's mess and keep them on a lead"

[www.southwark.gov.uk]

messageRe: Dawsons Hill
Posted by goldilocks June 03, 03:01PM

Suspect itís because itís designated as a nature reserve so dogs need to be on lead, rather than a park where there will be defined rules for different areas.

messageRe: Dawsons Hill
Posted by Abe_froeman June 03, 09:26PM

Might also be because so many dog
keepers round here don't train their animals are quite happy to let them shit anywhere and everywhere and attack anything going.

messageRe: Dawsons Hill
Posted by Frankito June 03, 10:06PM

Thatís probably more a minority than you think but thanks anyway for tarring us all with the same brush.... ;0)


Abe_froeman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Might also be because so many dog
> keepers round here don't train their animals are
> quite happy to let them shit anywhere and
> everywhere and attack anything going.

messageRe: Dawsons Hill
Posted by Maybaby June 03, 11:04PM

Are you one of them? Last I checked, "so many" didn't mean every one.

There are too many dog owners (and people in general) in London. Unfortunately that means there will be more problems as people are less reponsible and respectful. It's a shame, however, those inconsiderate dog owners don't add much to the general image of dog owners.

Frankito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thatís probably more a minority than you think but
> thanks anyway for tarring us all with the same
> brush.... ;0)
>
>
> Abe_froeman Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Might also be because so many dog
> > keepers round here don't train their animals
> are
> > quite happy to let them shit anywhere and
> > everywhere and attack anything going.

messageRe: Dawsons Hill
Posted by Frankito June 03, 11:23PM

Thanks so much for jumping in and clarifying, kindly send me the lottery numbers for this weekend too please..

I must remember not to be sarcastic at exaggerated statements going forward.


Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are you one of them? Last I checked, "so many"
> didn't mean every one.
>
> There are too many dog owners (and people in
> general) in London. Unfortunately that means there
> will be more problems as people are less
> reponsible and respectful. It's a shame, however,
> those inconsiderate dog owners don't add much to
> the general image of dog owners.
>
> Frankito Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thatís probably more a minority than you think
> but
> > thanks anyway for tarring us all with the same
> > brush.... ;0)
> >
> >
> > Abe_froeman Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Might also be because so many dog
> > > keepers round here don't train their animals
> > are
> > > quite happy to let them shit anywhere and
> > > everywhere and attack anything going.

messageRe: Dawsons Hill
Posted by EDNate June 04, 10:00AM

Abe_froeman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "clear up your dog's mess and keep them on a
> lead"
>
> [www.southwark.gov.uk]
> /parks/dawson-s-hill


I'd not seen that page before, thanks for the reference. The following comment is directed at the rule, and not yourself.

While the page clears up my question regarding the rule, I think this is a huge shame. A nature reserve should be enjoyed by local families and their pets. If the dog is not on the dangerous dogs list and is a family pet, my kid should be able to play fetch with her in our local public park. Certainly not as if Dawsons hill has landscaped gardens dogs could ruin.


On the dog mess point..... I'm not sure I agree with the assumption that a dog being on a lead prevents an irresponsible dog owner ( not me - always have pickup bags) to start picking up the mess. If they don't care and the dogs gotta go, then the lead won't change anything.

messageRe: Dawsons Hill
Posted by EDmummy June 04, 12:28PM

I think the point may be EDNate that on a nature reserve there may be more bugs, wild plants etc.,and therefore a lot of disturbance by Dogs off leads etc., may impact the "nature". There are other places to let dogs off leads.

messageRe: Dawsons Hill
Posted by EDNate June 04, 02:23PM

Fair enough. She does like to chase the pidgeons.

messageRe: Dawsons Hill
Posted by Jules-and-Boo June 04, 03:03PM

I would have thought there would need to be signs informing you to keep your dog on a lead.

What the hell are they going to do with photos anyway? If we can show the police photos / videos of someone breaking into our homes/ cars etc and they say it's not enough evidence, how can the same be used against a dog walker?

How do they know who you are/ that the dog is your dog/ where to live to fine you?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was june 04, 03:04pm by Jules-and-Boo.

messageRe: Dawsons Hill
Posted by EDNate June 04, 03:27PM

Jules-and-Boo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would have thought there would need to be signs
> informing you to keep your dog on a lead.
>
> What the hell are they going to do with photos
> anyway? If we can show the police photos / videos
> of someone breaking into our homes/ cars etc and
> they say it's not enough evidence, how can the
> same be used against a dog walker?
>
> How do they know who you are/ that the dog is your
> dog/ where to live to fine you?


I think there might be signs at the very bottom of the hill, but they are all over Dulwich Park as well, and few dog owners follow the rule there.

I would react to any "dog enforcement officer" with exactly those questions. It's not as if my little fluff ball has a registration number so I am a bit confused as to what these bozo's with cameras would do.

Anyone who has been confronted by them please share your story !

messageRe: Dawsons Hill
Posted by AylwardS June 04, 06:15PM

I had a quick look at the Council website this morning. There may be more useful information the links as well as what Abe Freeman posted.

Southwark carried out a consultation about dog Anti Social Behaviour (ASB) and it looks like they are stepping up enforcement - signs have gone up in a couple of parks / green spaces near us limiting walking of a maximum of 6 dogs with 3 off the lead at any one time.

We all know there are good and bad dog owners and the rules have to apply to all. A number of the links on the website page about Responsible Dog Ownership donít work but might be worth a look [www.southwark.gov.uk] - some common sense / good owner behaviour but unfortunately not all owners are good.

The bylaws relating to dogs have been around a while - looks like they were last confirmed in 1975!
[www.southwark.gov.uk]

As has been said Dawsons Hill is a nature reserve and the rules are what they are. Wildlife doesnít know one bit of green is a nature reserve and another isnít so at this time of year it would be good if dog walkers could be aware that disturbance, even unintentional can be an issue for wildlife - not something we thought about when we had dogs while I was growing up to be honest but we live and learn.

If you are taking your dog out please keep them on a lead - they may be well behaved and not mean it but could unintentionally scare nesting birds (now until July) and cause them to abandon their nest / chicks. If you are walking in the country the dog may encounter animals its not used to and react out of character. Its just not worth the risk of it getting hurt or worst case shot - not an issue here but traffic is the equivalent here I guess.

messageRe: Dawsons Hill
Posted by Nigello June 04, 07:21PM

The signs say you have to put a lead on your dog/s if you are asked by an officer. If you do not then you can be given a fine, so it is not automatic.

messageRe: Dawsons Hill
Posted by BoroWyke June 05, 08:45AM

I took my dog up there yesterday. The signs do ask you to put your dog on a lead if instructed but there is no instruction to always have them on a lead. I've just moved onto the area so did not know the area was a nature park.

I'll keep my dog on a lead to be safe. But if a officer tries to fine you, you should challenge them to identify the signs that notify you of the rule. Like a beach, footpaths into an area should notify you of the rules.

messageRe: Dawsons Hill
Posted by EDNate June 05, 09:16AM

BoroWyke Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I took my dog up there yesterday. The signs do ask
> you to put your dog on a lead if instructed but
> there is no instruction to always have them on a
> lead. I've just moved onto the area so did not
> know the area was a nature park.
>
> I'll keep my dog on a lead to be safe. But if a
> officer tries to fine you, you should challenge
> them to identify the signs that notify you of the
> rule. Like a beach, footpaths into an area should
> notify you of the rules.

I think that's the right approach. I will keep mine off the lead unless instructed otherwise, until the signs have changed.

messageRe: Dawsons Hill
Posted by EDNate June 05, 09:26AM

AylwardS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I had a quick look at the Council website this
> morning. There may be more useful information the
> links as well as what Abe Freeman posted.
>
> Southwark carried out a consultation about dog
> Anti Social Behaviour (ASB) and it looks like they
> are stepping up enforcement - signs have gone up
> in a couple of parks / green spaces near us
> limiting walking of a maximum of 6 dogs with 3 off
> the lead at any one time.
>
> We all know there are good and bad dog owners and
> the rules have to apply to all. A number of the
> links on the website page about Responsible Dog
> Ownership donít work but might be worth a look
> [www.southwark.gov.uk]
> lfare/responsible-dog-ownership - some common
> sense / good owner behaviour but unfortunately not
> all owners are good.
>
> The bylaws relating to dogs have been around a
> while - looks like they were last confirmed in
> 1975!
>
> [www.southwark.gov.uk]
> mposite_dog_ban_byelaws.pdf
>
> As has been said Dawsons Hill is a nature reserve
> and the rules are what they are. Wildlife doesnít
> know one bit of green is a nature reserve and
> another isnít so at this time of year it would be
> good if dog walkers could be aware that
> disturbance, even unintentional can be an issue
> for wildlife - not something we thought about when
> we had dogs while I was growing up to be honest
> but we live and learn.
>
> If you are taking your dog out please keep them on
> a lead - they may be well behaved and not mean it
> but could unintentionally scare nesting birds (now
> until July) and cause them to abandon their nest /
> chicks. If you are walking in the country the dog
> may encounter animals its not used to and react
> out of character. Its just not worth the risk of
> it getting hurt or worst case shot - not an issue
> here but traffic is the equivalent here I guess.

Thanks for the feedback and posting those helpful references, I was unaware of this guidance.

I strongly but respectfully disagree with your statement that dogs can unintentionally scare off nesting birds and pose a threat to wildlife. If the birds are at ground level, then the local foxes and roaming outdoor cats are much more of a threat than my little fur ball ! Perhaps there is more to the story though.

messageRe: Dawsons Hill
Posted by mary123 June 06, 08:05AM

I wish there was noise control on Dawson Hill after 11pm..seems to be a popular spit for young people partying there and playing music..lots of disturbed sleep for local residents

messageRe: Dawsons Hill
Posted by mary123 June 07, 06:00PM

Spot


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