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messagePenalty Charge notice for taking left turn..
Posted by matthew123 June 06, 09:23PM

I have had a penalty notice for taking a left turn off East Dulwich Road onto Peckham Rye.. anyone received one of these for this particular junction? I have taken a left turn at that spot hundreds of times in the past. In the penalty notice it says I did not follow the arrow on a blue sign which I do not recall ever being.. obviously I know you cannot take a right turn onto Peckham Rye but this is news to me not being able to take a left turn.

messageRe: Penalty Charge notice for taking left turn..
Posted by Blah Blah June 06, 09:29PM

Must be a mistake. Left turn is allowed off East Dulwich Road at that junction, in both directions.

messageRe: Penalty Charge notice for taking left turn..
Posted by TheArtfulDogger June 06, 09:51PM

Walk back and have a look at the junction to see what the signs are

messageRe: Penalty Charge notice for taking left turn..
Posted by JohnL June 07, 05:23PM

Wasn't the bus lane was it ?

messageRe: Penalty Charge notice for taking left turn..
Posted by matthew123 June 07, 05:33PM

No not bus lane. It was penalty from Southwark council for taking left turn. They attached the photo from a roadside camera of me taking left hand turn at that junction.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was june 07, 05:34pm by matthew123.

messageRe: Penalty Charge notice for taking left turn..
Posted by JohnL June 07, 05:40PM

Or is the arrow being referred to the sign at the top of Peckham Rye saying left for East Dulwich/Nunhead and right for Forest Hill/Dulwich and the OP went left for Forest Hill.

Surely not - that would mean being fined for a Layer 3 routing issue as network guys would say.

messageRe: Penalty Charge notice for taking left turn..
Posted by Sue June 07, 06:05PM

TheArtfulDogger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Walk back and have a look at the junction to see
> what the signs are


This seems a sensible suggestion!

messageRe: Penalty Charge notice for taking left turn..
Posted by Sue June 07, 06:08PM

This just says "banned right turn" for East Dulwich Road/Peckham Rye:

[www.southwark.gov.uk]

But "Peckham Rye & East Dulwich Road" is both left and right turns banned.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit was june 07, 06:12pm by Sue.

messageRe: Penalty Charge notice for taking left turn..
Posted by dresswaves June 07, 07:42PM

That doesn't make sense. The only banned left turn is travelling south on Peckham Rye, you can't turn left towards Nunhead. And that's a red no left turn sign & road markings.

messageRe: Penalty Charge notice for taking left turn..
Posted by KidKruger June 07, 07:56PM

This has me concerned that I could be fined for what has up to now seemed a perfectly legitimate and legal turn !

messageRe: Penalty Charge notice for taking left turn..
Posted by ianr June 07, 08:33PM

See the (Prescribed Routes) (Various Streets) (No. 4) Traffic Order 2011, that's downloadable from the Southwark favourite TMOs page [www.southwark.gov.uk], for the authoritative specification.
East Dulwich Road & Peckham Rye (western arm):
8.1 Every person causing any vehicle to proceed in a southbound direction in that length of Peckham Rye (the western arm) which lies north of its junction with East Dulwich Road shall, upon reaching its junction with East Dulwich Road, cause that vehicle to proceed ahead into that length of Peckham Rye (the western arm) which lies south of its junction with East Dulwich Road.
8.2 No person causing any vehicle to proceed in a northbound direction in Peckham Rye (the western arm) shall, upon reaching its junction with East Dulwich Road, cause that vehicle to turn right into East Dulwich Road.
8.3 No person causing any vehicle to proceed in a westbound direction in East Dulwich Road shall, upon reaching its junction with Peckham Rye (the western arm), cause that vehicle to turn right into Peckham Rye (the western arm).
8.4 Nothing in Article 8.3 preceding shall apply to a bus or a pedal cycle.
That doesn't preclude there being an additional one, though I'd expect any that there was to have also been included in the same page.

messageRe: Penalty Charge notice for taking left turn..
Posted by seenbeen June 07, 09:12PM

There's a mistake somewhere because you can turn left into Peckham Rye from E.Dulwich Road- I've had a good look on Google Street view and the arrows are painted on the road (because I do that journey fairly frequently.) All of ianr's list have been in place for years

messageRe: Penalty Charge notice for taking left turn..
Posted by Sally Eva June 08, 08:22AM

Is there a photo attached?

That is meant to be the proof that you did it. If there is no photo or no signs then take some photos yourself showing that what you did is permitted and appeal within the time limit.

Be careful because the grounds for appeal are limited to relevant matters -- things like "I've done this for years" etc would not be grounds for appeal but if there are poorly sited signs (or no signs) or the photo does not show that you did anything wrong then you can appeal.

It's possible that this has always been banned and the camera has only just been installed. It's also possible that it's not correct.

messageRe: Penalty Charge notice for taking left turn..
Posted by Blah Blah June 08, 10:25AM

dresswaves Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That doesn't make sense. The only banned left turn
> is travelling south on Peckham Rye, you can't turn
> left towards Nunhead. And that's a red no left
> turn sign & road markings.

This is correct. I use that junction every day and this is the only place to my knowledge that such a ticket would be issued. But the OP was not on PR, not traveling south, not turning left toward Nunhead.So it makes no sense. They have made a mistake. Appeal it. It would only take a 5 min movie clip of the junction to show you are right.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was june 08, 10:29am by Blah Blah.

messageRe: Penalty Charge notice for taking left turn..
Posted by PeckhamRose June 08, 02:03PM

According to the signpost as you come south from Peckham, after taking the left fork where the 343/78/P12s go, and Peckham Rye Park is in front of you at the lights, where you can turn left for Nunhead and Right (where the 37 goes) for East Dulwich - according to the signpost there IS NO road straight ahead (to Brockley/Honor Oak Crematorium). Only left or right. However, I can not quite make out where the OP was describing. Certainly it is badly signposted around all those junctions, but clearly signposted that when travelling south towards Peckham Rye where you've taken the right fork (where the 63/363/12/197 go) that you can only go straight ahead towards Forest Hill Road, and not left or right.

--------------------
Humanist Funeral Celebrant

messageRe: Penalty Charge notice for taking left turn..
Posted by matthew123 June 08, 04:10PM

Click on the google link - [goo.gl]

I took a left at this junction down Peckham Rye.. and that this is the penalty notice i received

messageRe: Penalty Charge notice for taking left turn..
Posted by wonderwoman June 08, 04:12PM

Btw does anyone know about Denmark hill bus lane, couldn't see any signs and only saw bus stop along the road opposite the station. Have there been any successful challenges?

messageRe: Penalty Charge notice for taking left turn..
Posted by RichH June 08, 04:28PM

matthew123 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Click on the google link -
> [goo.gl]
>
> I took a left at this junction down Peckham Rye..
> and that this is the penalty notice i received

Unless it's changed very recently there's no restriction turning left (or right) at that junction when travelling from that direction on E.Dulwich Road.

messageRe: Penalty Charge notice for taking left turn..
Posted by JohnL June 08, 04:32PM

matthew123 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Click on the google link -
> [goo.gl]
>
> I took a left at this junction down Peckham Rye..
> and that this is the penalty notice i received

I go left there all the time after a Sainsburys visit.

The old Kings on the Rye.

Edit: Unless something temporary was up due to the Rye Lane road works ?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was june 08, 04:34pm by JohnL.

messageRe: Penalty Charge notice for taking left turn..
Posted by RichH June 08, 04:35PM

wonderwoman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Btw does anyone know about Denmark hill bus lane,
> couldn't see any signs and only saw bus stop along
> the road opposite the station. Have there been any
> successful challenges?

By "opposite the station" do you mean on Champion Park? If so, the signs are there. Mostly around there I think bus lanes are 7am-7pm Monday to Sunday, perhaps partly due to the proximity of the hospital. I don't know the road on Denmark Hill itself though.

messageRe: Penalty Charge notice for taking left turn..
Posted by sunbob June 08, 05:48PM

The no 37 bus turns left there too.

messageRe: Penalty Charge notice for taking left turn..
Posted by PeckhamRose June 08, 07:00PM

Which begs the questions: 1) Were you speeding 2) Did you go on the red light?
Either way Appeal and show them the photo from the location. Let us know what happens.

--------------------
Humanist Funeral Celebrant

messageRe: Penalty Charge notice for taking left turn..
Posted by Blah Blah June 08, 07:27PM

He seems quite clear it was for making a left turn, but yes, let us know what happens. A left turn there is allowed and always has been.

messageRe: Penalty Charge notice for taking left turn..
Posted by ponderwoman June 08, 09:33PM

If you go futher up the road on your Google link view you can see the road clearly marked with the straight on and left arrows on the inside lane and the right turn arrows in the outer lane. If you were in the outer lane and turned left that would probably result in a penalty.

messageRe: Penalty Charge notice for taking left turn..
Posted by Blah Blah June 08, 09:54PM

No it wouldn't. You don't get fined for being in the wrong lane.

messageRe: Penalty Charge notice for taking left turn..
Posted by seenbeen June 08, 10:52PM

If I've ever had a penalty notice there is always a photo. Could this be a scam? There was a spate of scam emails accusing people of speeding in the past.

messageRe: Penalty Charge notice for taking left turn..
Posted by Charlie Bravo June 10, 05:42PM

I got one last year, after much arguing the sign was there there is blue arrow sign about 100 yards back the camera in mounted on top of the Kumon building to the right and the traffic lights have arrows pointing straight forward it's a fair cop unfortunately.

messageRe: Penalty Charge notice for taking left turn..
Posted by dresswaves June 10, 06:42PM

Charlie Bravo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I got one last year, after much arguing the sign
> was there there is blue arrow sign about 100 yards
> back the camera in mounted on top of the Kumon
> building to the right and the traffic lights have
> arrows pointing straight forward it's a fair cop
> unfortunately.

Well they must be making millions in fines then. I drove over that junction today, & do at least once a week, plenty of cars turning left. No blue signs, no no left turn signs & big white arrow on inside lane pointing ahead & left.

messageRe: Penalty Charge notice for taking left turn..
Posted by dresswaves June 10, 06:49PM

The only blue arrow is on the bollard at the pedestrian crossing before the lights by Tesco. Itís to stop you going into the left hand lane at the pedestrian crossing which is a bus lane. Could this be what the fine is for?

messageRe: Penalty Charge notice for taking left turn..
Posted by KidKruger June 10, 10:08PM

Not a fair cop at all IMO !!

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