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messageDulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by SUT June 08, 10:35AM

Dulwich and Herne Hill
Quiet Skies Campaign

STOP THE CONCENTRATED FLIGHT SUPERHIGHWAY OVER SOUTH-EAST LONDON

Sign our Petition at:

[chng.it]

Is your enjoyment of the garden, local parks and outdoor life blighted by the constant, loud noise of flights overhead?

Are you woken up early by the noise of flights?

Have you wondered why you are under a noisy flight path when you live 16 miles away from Heathrow airport?

It’s because Dulwich, Herne Hill, Forest Hill, Brixton, Camberwell and swathes of south-east London are on a concentrated flight superhighway for arrivals into Heathrow airport. Changes in recent years mean that we are on the final approach into Heathrow airport. When the wind is westerly, which is 70% of the time, all flights arriving into Heathrow airport are flying over our area in a concentrated flight path.

Flights are more frequent and planes are flying lower. The Heathrow airport web track ( [webtrak.emsbk.com] ) shows contemporaneous flight activity, including the height and flight paths of individual planes and noise monitoring points.

Planes are joining the final approach earlier, which means that even though Dulwich is 16 miles away from Heathrow, most of the flights arriving into Heathrow are sent over us. The ‘continuous descent approach’ implemented by the Civil Aviation Authority in recent years also means that planes are flying lower over Dulwich.

The noise must stop. Local Residents should be consulted on changes to flight paths affecting the noise over our area.Heathrow airport should also increase the number of noise monitoring locations in south-east London. There is currently only one noise monitoring location in south-east London (which is located in Camberwell). This compares with no fewer than 6 monitoring locations in the Wimbledon area.


Additionally, we are blighted by flights arriving into London City Airport as we are on a flight path into City Airport.

What can you do to BRING BACK QUIET SKIES to Dulwich and south-east London?

1. SIGN OUR PETITION.

2. Complain about the noise directly to Heathrow airport (complaints can be made to ) and to the Civil Aviation Authority (at caa.co.uk). The more noise complaints they receive from people living in the local area, the more likely they are to do something about it. Feedback and complaints from the local community will make a big difference.

PETITION

1. The noise from flights over our homes and recreational spaces in the Dulwich, Herne Hill, Brixton and south-east London area is excessive and unacceptable.

2. Stop the concentrated flight superhighway over south-east London (for arrivals into Heathrow Airport).

3. The final approach into Heathrow airport should be varied rather than a fixed concentrated path so that our community is not unduly burdened with constant noise.

4. Heathrow airport should vary the direction planes fly before joining, and the point at which they join, the final fixed approach, so that flights are joining the final fixed approach closer to the airport and not 16 miles away in Dulwich.

5. The height at which planes fly over south-east London should be substantially raised to reduce noise and disturbance.

6. Install at least two more noise monitoring locations in south-east London. A noise monitoring location should be installed in Dulwich park.
7. Dulwich must be included in the list of venues in which Heathrow airport public consultation events take place, including the next consultation on Heathrow expansion due to start on 18 June 2019.

8. Every affected household in south-east London should be posted a leaflet and encouraged to submit their views in each Heathrow consultation exercise relevant to flight paths and noise levels affecting them.

9. Residents in Dulwich and south-east London should be included in Heathrow Noise Insulation schemes so that Heathrow airport pays towards the costs of residents insulating their homes against the aircraft noise though double glazing, replacement windows and loft insulation.

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by TheArtfulDogger June 08, 11:20AM

Sorry
No I don't agree with this campaign 😐

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by edcam June 08, 12:08PM

Same as you TAD.

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by keano77 June 08, 12:13PM

I miss Concorde flying over my garden twice a day

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by seenbeen June 08, 12:55PM

Maybe Boris Johnson can revive his plan for an airport in the Thames Estuary if he gets to be PM..that would solve the problem

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by exdulwicher June 08, 01:38PM

Quote:
3. The final approach into Heathrow airport should be varied rather than a fixed concentrated path so that our community is not unduly burdened with constant noise.
4. Heathrow airport should vary the direction planes fly before joining, and the point at which they join, the final fixed approach, so that flights are joining the final fixed approach closer to the airport and not 16 miles away in Dulwich.

5. The height at which planes fly over south-east London should be substantially raised to reduce noise and disturbance.

There's a certain failure of understanding there as to how flight paths work. You've got arrivals and departures for Heathrow, Gatwick, City and (to a certain extent) Stansted and Luton to deconflict. Weather patterns dictate a lot of it as do the established flight corridors that act to separate all those flights.
Also, how are aircraft supposed to land at Heathrow if they're higher coming over Dulwich?! The whole point they're that height is because they're landing there. If they were higher or lower they'd miss the landing and/or hit something else...
Quote:
I miss Concorde flying over my garden twice a day

Me too. 6pm - as kids we'd run to the window to watch it. Far fewer jumbo jets now, almost everything is a twin engine bar the occasional A380.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was june 08, 04:09pm by exdulwicher.

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by KidKruger June 08, 01:56PM

“BRING BACK QUIET SKIES”

When we’re the skies quite over ED ? Certainly not in the 30yrs I’ve lived here.
Serious Question.

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by James Barber June 08, 02:23PM

Hi SUT,
Noise from over flying aircraft has increased significantly. Far more flights into and out of Heathrow and City Airport than 30 years ago.
Night flight regime should be stopped. GPS controlled flight paths mean precise routes making those underneath suffer from far more noise intrusion.

The Heathrow Action Campaign Against Noise has lots of sensible suggestions to reduce this noise and have studied the impact of noise from Heathrow. It costs our society far more in detrimental noise impacts than Heathrow generates for example.

Third runway at Heathrow will compound things further.

--------------------
Regards jamesvbarber@gmail.com
former Liberal Democrat Councillor for East Dulwich Ward (2006-2018)
[www.jamesbarber.org.uk]
[twitter.com]

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by Sue June 08, 04:20PM

keano77 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I miss Concorde flying over my garden twice a day


So do I.

And I'm sure the skies were quieter over East Dulwich in 1991 (apart from Concorde, obviously big grin )

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by RichH June 08, 05:46PM

In terms of aircraft noise I was most recently disturbed by Trump's somewhat excessive eight helicopters plus two escorts going back and forth between Biggin Hill and Stanstead during his recent visit. Probably because they sounded "different".

The regular traffic to Heathrow and City Airport doesn't really bother me at all. I've grown accustomed to it over the last 50+ years and accept it as a minor consequence of living in one of the world's biggest and most vibrant capital cities.

Oh, I miss Concorde too. I never tired of seeing and hearing that magnificent machine flying overhead.

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by Ruffler June 08, 06:32PM

seenbeen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe Boris Johnson can revive his plan for an
> airport in the Thames Estuary if he gets to be
> PM..that would solve the problem

Even more reason Boris would be a disaster as PM

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by twister June 09, 06:43AM

I miss Concorde too, the noise doesn’t bother us either. The flight path was there 25 years ago when we moved in. I used to live in East Anglia and the RAF supply plans flying over and so low you couks see the pilot was a lot louder.

Where ever you are in the city you are going to be close to a flight path. I’m guessing you don’t mind when you fly away on holiday or for business.

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by evilmanic June 09, 07:09AM

Not Over My Back Yard.

Totally disagree.

>> "It costs our society far more in detrimental noise impacts than Heathrow generates for example. "

James, Care to quantify this?

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by rollflick June 09, 08:51AM

While there is a good case for a fairer reallocation of Heathrow flight paths rather than concentrating them ever more over us, that's already proposed at least as part of the 3rd runway plans.

This petition is the wrong tactic at the wrong time. One consultation (on flight path strategic principles) has just finished and another (on 3rd runway) is about to start. To be effective, and reduce the risk of engagement fatigue, quiet(er) skies campaigners should really focus on that:
[www.heathrowexpansion.com]

The elephant in the room is the climate emergency and the govt has acknowledged it needs to rethink how an expanded Heathrow could fit with tough new climate targets. Heathrow airport obviously has given much less thought to how flight paths could change if it doesn't get its expansion (or if legal challenges drag on).

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by Sue June 09, 09:53AM

rollflick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> The elephant in the room is the climate emergency


Yes.

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by jimlad48 June 09, 01:47PM

Ultimately this is going to require either the closure of Heathrow, or an acceptance that we live in a global city which has multiple airports. Personally the noise doesnt bother me that much, its just part of city life.
If you want to live an aircraft free life, then try somewhere in the country - but realise that there are few nirvanas - I've just come back from a few days walking in Yorkshire, and there was regular very low, and loud military aircraft flypasts - personally I regard it as the sound of freedom and have no problem at all with it, but it was a lot louder than the planes here.

Otherwise, if you want to stay in London, try moving northwards, where its a bit quieter, or accept that the price of having the benefits of London life is the noise of London airports. Otherwise you're going to spend a long time trying and failing to do anything except get worked up about something you won't be able to influence.

Finally, if you think its bad here, try spending a day out in Richmond...

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by kristymac1 June 09, 02:36PM

jimlad48 Wrote:
> Finally, if you think its bad here, try spending a
> day out in Richmond...

Ha! My husband is from East Sheen and when visiting his family home in the 90s, the windows would visibly shake when concorde went over, coming from a pit town in the NE I thought it was the end of days the first time it happened.
They all strangely missed it when concorde was no more...

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by edcam June 09, 05:50PM

I think the climate issue is more pressing than the noise one. As others have said, we live in London, where we have multiple airports. They’re not going to close them any time soon.

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by Humdinger June 09, 06:27PM

Classic example of NIMBY'ism.

Don't fly over over my house, fly over other peoples instead, meaning they have to put up with the noise so I don't have to.

London is a major global city with multiple airports. You will have to put up with aircraft noise if you choose to live here. That's the nature of the beast, and frankly petitions such as this are a waste of time and effort.

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by TheArtfulDogger June 09, 06:59PM

Now , a Vulcan bomber flying over, that made a noise and shook your fillings loose

I miss them as well as concord

Sigh, we used to be good at making planes...

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by stephent June 10, 09:50PM

> Weather patterns dictate a lot of it
> as do the established flight corridors that act to
> separate all those flights.
> Also, how are aircraft supposed to land at
> Heathrow if they're higher coming over Dulwich?!
> The whole point they're that height is because
> they're landing there. If they were higher or
> lower they'd miss the landing and/or hit something
> else...
>

Actually with modern navigation and approach systems theres a fair amount of scope to vary both flight paths and angle of attack (CDA, steeper approaches, etc).
It does take a long time to analyse and implement these though, as there’s a lot of trials and modelling that needs to take place.

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by rollflick June 10, 10:28PM

In response to those absolutist, bah humbug comments above, over 28% of all the people in the EU affected by the highest levels of aircraft noise are under the Heathrow flight path, many of them here in south London. While Concorde was just a few times a day, the flights now are far more frequent and as often as every 90s, especially first thing in the morning. There are serious economic and health impacts, putting more pressure on our NHS for instance.

As this recent report by the London Assembly notes there are particular issues for those areas also affected by City but also practical solutions such as respite periods and opposing further expansion:
[www.london.gov.uk]

Definitely agree about the need to measure noise with windows open for hot summer nights, which are being made more extreme by air travel induced climate change. Unless Heathrow wants to buy us all double glazing, A/C and zero carbon electricity to power them that is.

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by scrawford June 11, 08:48AM

Here’s a message I got from Heathrow. I too find the noise intolerable, and when you examine noise levels in Camberwell they are the same as those in the areas where noise insulation grants are available

Dear xxx


Thank you for contacting Heathrow regarding noise insulation. We are sorry to hear you have been disturbed by Heathrow’s operations.

Please be advised that your property is not currently eligible for assistance as it does not fall within either The LHR 2004/2005 Night Restrictions Contour; or The LHR 1994 Day Noise Insulation Scheme Boundary.

Whilst I am certain this will come as disappointing news to you, the schemes are applied in a fair and constant manner to all local residents. We are therefore unable to make exceptions to properties that do not fall within the agreed boundaries.

If you have any further queries then please do not hesitate to put them to me. Otherwise, please visit www.heathrow.com/noise for more information.

Alternatively, if you would like to log a complaint concerning noise disturbances you are experiencing in your home you are able to do so by emailing noise@heathrow.com or by calling the team on 0800 344 844.

Regards

Karen
Community Communications Officer

Heathrow Airport Ltd
The Compass Centre, Nelson Road
Hounslow, Middlesex, TW6 2GW

t:+44 (0) 800 344 844
w: heathrow.com t: twitter.com/heathrowairport
a: heathrow.com/apps

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by DirtyBox June 11, 09:14AM

Ban all planes....except the ones I use to go skiing or on my summer holiday

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by SUT June 13, 09:32PM

We are up to nearly 50 signatures. We will be promoting the campaign at the Herne Hill market on Sunday, 7 July at the community stall. Do sign the online petition if this issue concerns you. More voices will make a difference.

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by first mate June 14, 07:19AM

A few weekends ago when the weather was warmer and we were outside, I counted planes coming over at around 1 every minute, they were low too.




rollflick Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------
> In response to those absolutist, bah humbug
> comments above, over 28% of all the people in the
> EU affected by the highest levels of aircraft
> noise are under the Heathrow flight path, many of
> them here in south London. While Concorde was just
> a few times a day, the flights now are far more
> frequent and as often as every 90s, especially
> first thing in the morning. There are serious
> economic and health impacts, putting more pressure
> on our NHS for instance.
>
> As this recent report by the London Assembly notes
> there are particular issues for those areas also
> affected by City but also practical solutions such
> as respite periods and opposing further expansion:
>
> [www.london.gov.uk]
> raft-noise-report.pdf
>
> Definitely agree about the need to measure noise
> with windows open for hot summer nights, which are
> being made more extreme by air travel induced
> climate change. Unless Heathrow wants to buy us
> all double glazing, A/C and zero carbon
> electricity to power them that is.

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by exdulwicher June 14, 06:28PM

Quote:
A few weekends ago when the weather was warmer and we were outside, I counted planes coming over at around 1 every minute, they were low too.

Download an app called Flightrader24. Allow it to access your location and then just fire it up. It'll show you a near-enough live map of all aircraft movements, you can click/tap on a plane and it'll bring up its flight path, departure & arrival airports, aircraft type, altitude and speed.

You'll soon get an idea of flightpaths and you can pick out the 4 stacks that Heathrow have (Bovingdon, Lambourne, Ockham & Biggin), the paths from there into the approach path and so on.

Most aircraft coming over East Dulwich inbound for Heathrow are about 4000ft, descending at roughly 600fpm (at that moment, the exact rate fluctuates a bit) and doing about 180 knots (205mph). Slightly different for City which generally takes smaller aircraft.

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by Nunhead S June 15, 11:49AM

I miss Concorde too. Living in London it is part of the experience. I also use aeroplanes so shan’t complain. Plus have worked in west London - where they fly so low over houses and schools in a way I have never see in SE London.

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by Chick June 15, 02:22PM

I have pictures of Concorde flying over Dulwich, I could scan them and send them to any one interested.

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by dbboy June 15, 09:50PM

London = UK Capital.

Planes flying over head are to be expected, we've three airports here with arrivals and departures across the globe. If you'd prefer somewhere quieter, have you considered the Outer Hebrides.

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