Forum Sponsors

www.dulwichcarpetcompany.co.uk

https://www.gokayfitness.com/class

All Round Renovation

Advertise here

The East Dulwich Forum
Would you recommend your builder, plumber, electrician or carpenter?
Goto Page: Previous12
Current Page: 2 of 2
messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by EDNate June 17, 12:58PM

I've signed you petition, but feel it would be valuable to get more information.

Do you have any statistics or information comparing London to that of other comparable large cities in the world? What is the situation in New York, Paris, Chicago Tokyo ? Do those cities have large residential areas that suffer from the levels of air and noise pollution we face in London and in particular Dulwich ?

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by exdulwicher June 18, 03:43PM

[www.bbc.co.uk]

It's going to get noisier....

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by mikeb June 18, 05:43PM

And that's kind of the point - noise has got worse not just with Heathrow but also City - and it's a one-way street. Heathrow's raison d'etre is to spend money on capex so that it can receive its regulated equity return. More capex = more return.

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by exdulwicher June 18, 07:37PM

Quote:
Do you have any statistics or information comparing London to that of other comparable large cities in the world? What is the situation in New York...

I don't have any noise stats for it but new York has three main airports: JFK, LaGuardia and Newark Liberty. If ONE of those airports has to change it's arrival / departure direction due to weather, the other two HAVE to change as well simply to deconflict. It's not quite that bad at Heathrow / Gatwick / City.

There's a noise & flight tracking map for New York here:
[aircraftnoise.panynj.gov]

Schipol is a major international hub with 6 runways and it's only 5 miles from the centre of Amsterdam. That said, only two are usually in use at any one time although they can go up to 4 at very busy times. The Dutch seem very good with noise mitigation measures; the airport has all sorts of intelligent design stuff built in and most people there seem to accept that living in Amsterdam has more benefits than not - they've got considerably cleaner air and less noise in the first place because of the cycle friendly layout which dramatically lowers vehicle use.

Problem is that building a third runway doesn't just mean extra flights, it also means tens of thousands of extra vehicle journeys in and around the Heathrow and M25/M4/M3 area. It's really not an easy problem to solve without flattening the entire area and starting from scratch.

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by Bth June 20, 10:07AM

Heathrow has no conscience. The CAA is pretty toothless for example helicopters are suppose not to fly below 500 feet but this is never monitored and it has no powers to monitor noise levels at the London City Airport. If the third runway is built at Heathrow there will be 50% more flights over this area. The London City Airport is being expanded and there will be more takeoffs when completed. Those residents who have dismissed this petition should perhaps think again or do they intend moving in the next few years? I don’t think I should have to move to accommodate aircraft pollution instead Heathrow and the London City Airport should be moved to the Thames estuary.

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by exdulwicher June 20, 07:46PM

Quote:
The CAA is pretty toothless for example helicopters are suppose not to fly below 500 feet but this is never monitored

It is and London is some of the most protected and well-controlled airspace in western Europe. That said, emergency services (which is the majority of helicopter traffic around there) are exempt. Majority is still around 1000 - 1500ft; the sort of height where it can move relatively freely without cluttering up Gatwick and Heathrow radar and approaches.

Track enough helicopters around there and you'll find a lot are in and out of Battersea Heliport but their descent pattern is almost always along the river.
Quote:
Heathrow and the London City Airport should be moved to the Thames estuary.

The idea of "Boris Island" airport (which has been around in one form or another since the late 1970s) was an alternative to expanding Heathrow, not a complete replacement.
[en.wikipedia.org]

It'll never happen now. The best long term answer is actually to link other, smaller airports and use their capacity. HS2 could easily link Heathrow, Birmingham and Manchester airports - and once the HS2 spur goes up to there, Leeds-Bradford can hook in too. It's the most environmentally friendly option, it has the advantage that you're not reliant on ONE airport and it means you're not subjecting anyone to excessive noise because the load is spread around.

It does rely on some good integrated project management though, lead at Government level and currently the Government is busy deciding which complete moron is going to wreck the country the quickest so who knows...

*edited for spelling*



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was june 20, 09:32pm by exdulwicher.

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by Growlybear June 22, 01:52PM

I can never understand how the noise from aircraft can have such an impact on people in this area. I have lived in East Dulwich/Forest Hill for over 40 years, and whilst I agree there seems to be an increase in the volume of flights, I can't remember ever having been really disturbed by the noise. I used to love sitting in the garden watching Concorde fly overhead, but even the noise from that wasn't intrusive. The planes often fly low enough to be able to make out the airline, and regularly fly directly over my house. I'm also a light sleeper but have never been disturbed by plane noise. I find the traffic far more bothersome during the day than any plane, and the worst noise of all has to be the foxes when they start shrieking in the middle of the night.

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by SUT July 07, 08:44AM

We are promoting the petition today (7 July) at the HERNE HILL SUNDAY MARKET at the Community Stand. Do come along and support us.

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by mikeb July 09, 02:51PM

Noisy morning today. Woken by planes at 6am as soon as they went back to one every 45 seconds. There was not a moment when the sky wasn't rumbling, as the noise from one hadn't stopped before the next one came in. I've lived next to busy roads and railway lines and they were less intrusive.

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by klove July 09, 03:12PM

We're right under it too... and think it's quite localised even in East Dulwich. If you're under the planes they are awful: so low that you can read which airline it is and literally no break from the noise. But even a couple of roads away it's not so bad.

People on this thread who don't think it's that bad are probably in those lucky streets. They are more then welcome to come into my back garden and try and have a conversation over the constant rumble!

I've signed and thanks for the initiative!

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by skylorikeet July 09, 03:12PM

Me too, mikeb. I've lived in London my whole life and have lived so close to railway lines I could practically read the passengers' newspapers but I've never found anything as intrusive as plane noise. I do envy those who say it doesn't bother them, I've tried to tell myself the same but the noise really does have an effect on me.

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by i*Rate July 09, 07:43PM

Hi Klove and skylorikeet,

Nice to hear from a couple of people that feel the way I do about the aircraft noise. I've lived in London all my life but in ED since 1980 when it used to be quiet, then it all went wrong around the late 1990s. Have complained to Heathrow many times with specific views about why we should have to put up with the noise and seem to have no rights to silence.
Sadly, or madly, rather the MP have agreed to the third runway at Heathrow, so now it will get much worse. I tried finding out how and where they would fly the extra 300 planes a day into Heathrow and got no answer.
Who know we may have parallel flight paths over our head in the future!? Scary and depressing stuff!

Cheers.

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by Tony2014 July 18, 09:50AM

Hi,
Apologies if this has been posted but I had an email from Helen Hayes about a Heathrow consultation that's happening in Lambeth today. It hasn't been very well publicised by Heathrow of course.

''I wanted to be sure that you are aware that there is a public consultation event on Heathrow Airport which will be held in Lambeth on Thursday 18th July. The consultation will be held at Wheatsheaf Community Hall, Wheatsheaf Lane, off South Lambeth Road, London SW8 2UP from 2-8pm.

I have previously written to the CEO of Heathrow Airport to raise concerns about the scope of the previous consultation, which was overwhelmingly focused on the areas close to Heathrow, and did not include any events in my constituency. I am therefore pleased that, even though this event is not in my constituency, it is being held in Lambeth. I strongly encourage you to attend the event or to submit your views into this process. ''

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by James Barber July 18, 02:53PM

I would really recommend people join HACAN if aircraft noise bothers them - [hacan.org.uk]

--------------------
Regards jamesvbarber@gmail.com
former Liberal Democrat Councillor for East Dulwich Ward (2006-2018)
[www.jamesbarber.org.uk]
[twitter.com]

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by klines11 July 18, 04:33PM

I really love that HACAN logo lol

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by SUT August 04, 09:51PM

City Airport is currently conducting two public consultations. We would urge local residents affected by aircraft noise to take part.

The first is on its Master Plan for expansion, to increase flight numbers by 40,000 a year, get rid of the ban on flights between 12.30pm Saturday and 12.30pm on Sunday. Additionally it is proposing that more flights are allowed to operate in the early morning and late evening. The consultation closes on 20 September 2019. Details are at:
[www.londoncityairport.com]

The second consultation is on flight paths, which closes on 25 August 2019. We would favour of the proposal to avoid overflying communities (such as ours) with multiple routes from other airports. We would wish to oppose any further concentration of flight paths by rejecting the proposal to minimise the number of people newly overflown and total population overflown.

[forms.office.com]

The HACAN EAST website is a good source of information: [www.hacaneast.org.uk]

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by ThorNogson August 14, 09:20AM

Heathrow have a public consultation open at the moment. Many local residents complain of being woken from 4.30 am during the summer when we have windows open. A third runway will mean more of their flight arrivals over London. Making a response is easy, and even easier if you use the guide published by Climate Action Lewisham on their Facebook pages at

[www.facebook.com]

Vicky Foxcroft MP (Lewisham and Deptford) is holding a public meeting with Heathrow on 21st August about their expansion plans. All are welcome - details here.
[www.vickyfoxcroft.org.uk]

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by ThorNogson August 16, 03:31PM

[www.newham.gov.uk]

It will be interesting to see if London City Airport expansive plans survive the direct criticism of its own planning authority, Newham.

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by Tony2014 August 17, 01:09PM

Hi,
On the London City Airport form (which is designed to confuse and only get the answers they want)there is the following option about design priorities:
"In what order would you prioritise the following design principles
.
.
4. Should improve resilience during abnormal operating conditions" - what does that mean/refer to?

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by yorksgirl August 17, 03:09PM

Agree Tony 2014, the London City Airport "consultation" is one of the worst examples I have ever seen. Every question is crooked, aimed at manipulating people who read them quickly into giving answers that the airport can use to say the expansion plans are supported.

At the moment City Airport is running a massive ad campaign to push weekend leisure breaks to European capitals. At the same time as claiming that airport expansion is "needed" because of their "projections" of the "need" for increased flights.

The Evening Standard was trying to push the Royal Docks area / Custom House / Newham as the latest "gentrification" spot this week but even they had to qualify it with "if you can stand the noise". There's a reason why it's cheap, which is that you will die early from the noise stress, and the stinking petrol-laden air. That's if the local "businessmen" don't get you first. Strongly recommend a read of "Legacy - Gangsters, corruption and the London Olympics" to understand why not to move to Royal Docks / Custom House / Newham. If you thought Line of Duty was far-fetched....well, it wasn't.

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by ThorNogson August 24, 09:19AM

Lewisham comes out firmly against the expansion
[twitter.com]

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by ThorNogson August 24, 09:29AM

to respond to the London City Airport flight path consultation , which ends tomorrow, you don't need to get all technical. Here's a clear, heartfelt letter from a local resident which makes clear points. Respond to the consultation at [](mailto:)

*'Your Response Form is too ambiguous to complete correctly.*

*First of all, we do not consider that sufficient publicity has been given to this matter. Advertisements in a few freebie newspapers which are not generally available across the area has NOT given the public affected sufficient notice. It also appears to us that with the ongoing Heathrow Consultations, that City Airport are endeavouring to get their Consultations through under the radar.*

*London City Airport is situated in a densely populated residential area and consequently their planes flyover a large residential area including South East London at altitudes of 2000 feet or less when they are some 20 miles from touch down. The noise from these planes is such as to interrupt conversation, radio and television etc particularly in hot weather when windows etc are open. *

*We do not agree that no new areas should be overflown, the noise and pollution generated by these planes must be shared out more fairly and not targeted on the same unfortunate residents. It is imperative, that as a matter of urgency that residents are NOT overflown by planes from more than one airport. This area of SE London is overflown by both City and Heathrow planes.*

*City Airport was built on the understanding that it would be used by turbo prop aircraft and the BAE 146, not the jets now thundering over SE London. In addition, it would be an airport used for business people with the result that there would not be that many flights. Nowadays, planes are thundering over every few minutes. *

*It is amazing how we have to respond to numerous Consultations now, but Concentrated Flight Paths were imposed upon us without any prior notice or Consultation.*

*We are also concerned about safety and pollution with the number of aircraft which fly almost non stop over this area.*

*Resident’s health should come before profit of airports, particularly when they are not even UK owned.*"

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by Tony2014 August 24, 01:37PM

Thank you. This is very useful. And how blissfully quiet are the skies today!

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by exdulwicher August 25, 07:05PM

Quote:
*City Airport was built on the understanding that it would be used by turbo prop aircraft and the BAE 146, not the jets now thundering over SE London. In addition, it would be an airport used for business people with the result that there would not be that many flights. Nowadays, planes are thundering over every few minutes. *

To be fair, aircraft are in constant development and it's not the airport that is responsible for what lands there, it's the airlines who run the routes in and out of the place who are constantly looking for quieter and more fuel efficient planes.

The CS100 is now called that Airbus A220 (Airbus owning a majority stake in Bombardier) and the next size up, the Airbus A318 which is only allowed becasue it has steep approach capabilities (entry into LCY is about 5.5 degrees, compared to entry into Heathrow which is 3 degrees).
That's it for "big" jets, the rest of it is still biz-jets, BAe 146 etc. And it doesn't allow helicopters - they mostly head off to Battersea.

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by ThorNogson August 28, 11:24AM

HACAN East will be holding a public meeting, jointly with the No3rdRunway Campaign and Plane Hell Action, covering London City and Heathrow expansion on 4th September, 7-9pm, St Mark’s Church Kennington, 337 Kennington Park Rd, SE11 4PW

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by ThorNogson August 28, 11:37AM

Claims that the 'new generation' aircraft will be quieter for Londoners have been undermined by a London City Airport noise monitor at Lambeth which showed that the only new generation (so called quieter) plane flying at present the Airbus A220-100 shows a maximum of 3 dB lower in level flight than its predecessors at 2000ft. This is a scarcely perceptible noise difference on the ground. Yet the Airport is already set to double flights over SE London from 2017 levels, and now wants to apply for even more. For us, double the flights = near double the noise, even with new generation aircraft.
Full information here. [www.hacaneast.org.uk]

The 5.5 degree steep arrivals approach only applies from a short distance from the runway. London City flies planes for 20 miles in level flight under 2000ft over densely populated SE London before eventually beginning a descent. It fails to use a Continuous Descent Approach which would mean planes flying much higher for longer, and quieter too.

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by evilmanic August 28, 02:24PM

A 3dB drop is actually 23% decrease in volume.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was august 28, 03:06pm by evilmanic.

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by ThorNogson August 29, 01:08AM

The difference , of 1-3 decibels peak, is not perceptible on the ground. There are many studies to confirm this. Airports are misleading people to believe new generation aircraft will make a perceptible difference to the overflown. In SE London in level flight at under 2000 ft London City's own measurements show they will not.

"Perception
Sound studies tell us time and again that a 3dBA increase in sound level is barely noticeable to the human ear. In fact, you have to raise a sound level by 5dBA before most listeners report a noticeable or significant change. Further, it takes a 10dBA increase before the average listener hears “double the sound.” That’s a far cry from 3dB. "

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by @Woodwarde September 07, 12:37PM

I have received the HACANEAST postcard to object and have returned it. The aircraft noise is bad most mornings now and a definite impact.

messageRe: Dulwich & Herne Hill Quiet Skies Campaign
Posted by SUT September 09, 08:47PM

The City Airport master plan consultation has been extended to close on 18 October 2019. It's important that affected Dulwich residents respond to the consultation. The HACAN east website has a postcard which you can print, complete and post (by Freepost). It also has a text you can cut, paste and email to City Airport.
[www.hacaneast.org.uk]

Goto Page: Previous12
Current Page: 2 of 2

Back to top of page
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
Donate                   Terms of use                  Help & FAQs                   Advertise               RSS rss feed               Copyright 2006 - 2018 East Dulwich Forum