Forum Sponsors

www.facebook.com/dulwichecogardening

https://www.andreavladovaphotography.co.uk/

www.littleloud.org

Advertise here

The East Dulwich Forum
Would you recommend your East Dulwich doctor, dentist or butcher?
Goto Page: Previous1234Next
Current Page: 2 of 4
messageRe: Cafe in Peckham Rye goes cashless
Posted by Frankito October 07, 10:49PM

Apologies Sue for not being clear enough: I AM BORED...

Now can we get back to discussing the topic in question or shall I start a new Petty Betty thread in your honour...?

Sue Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Frankito Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Enough of this baiting please, you made your
> point
> > now please move on as it makes for very boring
> > reading.
>
>
> What you mean is, you are bored. Please don't
> speak for everybody else!

messageRe: Cafe in Peckham Rye goes cashless
Posted by pk October 08, 07:32AM

Frankito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Now can we get back to discussing the topic in
> question

Iíve never understood why people say stuff like this and then donít say anything about the topic? Having said nothing so far on it

messageRe: Cafe in Peckham Rye goes cashless
Posted by DulwichFox October 08, 09:23AM

I think along with Cash, Cards will be used less.

At times I use 'Apple Pay' Which is no longer restricted to £30
It's very easy to use. Although it is not available everywhere.

DulwichFox

messageRe: Cafe in Peckham Rye goes cashless
Posted by Drxyster October 08, 10:04AM

The downside I see to these cashless operations are Charitable donations. In many shops there is often a charity donation box on or near the counter. If I purchase something and the change is small, I will put the small change in the Charity box, a cashless enterprise precludes me and others, from these small donations.

messageRe: Cafe in Peckham Rye goes cashless
Posted by Spartacus October 08, 10:08AM

And big brother can track everything and every where you spend .... be afraid be very afraid

messageRe: Cafe in Peckham Rye goes cashless
Posted by JohnL October 08, 10:19AM

Spartacus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And big brother can track everything and every
> where you spend .... be afraid be very afraid

yes - I wonder if the bank speculate on my pub crawls as they show up on my app.

If I wanted to go off grid I'd use cash and a burner phone as in line of duty smiling smiley

messageRe: Cafe in Peckham Rye goes cashless
Posted by Penguin68 October 08, 10:32AM

The downside I see to these cashless operations are Charitable donations. - And indeed tips. I tend to tip change into a tips saucer for small purchases - but if I touch in a card, nada. Actually I prefer non-tipping societies (Japan, Iceland) - but that means you have to pay serving staff properly. With increased prices at the till.

messageRe: Cafe in Peckham Rye goes cashless
Posted by JohnL October 08, 10:55AM

Penguin68 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The downside I see to these cashless operations
> are Charitable donations. - And indeed tips. I
> tend to tip change into a tips saucer for small
> purchases - but if I touch in a card, nada.
> Actually I prefer non-tipping societies (Japan,
> Iceland) - but that means you have to pay serving
> staff properly. With increased prices at the till.

When my card is declined every so often they give me the reader again and it starts with an optional tip.

Most bar staff are pressing no tip before they give it to you at present.

messageRe: Cafe in Peckham Rye goes cashless
Posted by Sue October 08, 12:09PM

Frankito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Apologies Sue for not being clear enough: I AM
> BORED...
>
> Now can we get back to discussing the topic in
> question or shall I start a new Petty Betty thread
> in your honour...?


Crikey. You really are bored, aren't you big grin

This is quite an interesting thread, if you wanted to join in the on topic discussion big grin

messageRe: Cafe in Peckham Rye goes cashless
Posted by siousxiesue October 08, 09:11PM

siousxiesue Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For those people disturbed enough at this
> exclusionist behaviour at what is a 'community'
> asset I have been advised to approach the council
> member for Parks and also equalities, Cllr Rebecca
> Lury.
>
> Rebecca.lury@southwark.gov.uk


Feel free to contact her if you are against this move to cashless. At the moment it's just Peckham Rye but they admit it will be all branches soon

messageRe: Cafe in Peckham Rye goes cashless
Posted by Siduhe October 09, 09:55AM

If you're someone (like me) who has a bank account, a regular salary or pension and who doesn't think much about buying a coffee on the way to work every day, this undoubtedly seems like a great, convenient idea.

However, alongside of the practical issues for the elderly or people who don't work through illness - it's the overall signal this sends which I am uncomfortable with. Going cashless signals to people who rely on cash, and are almost certainly economically vulnerable, that "their kind" aren't welcome to share these spaces. Put yourself in the position of a parent who doesn't have any spare cash, and for whom a once a week treat for their kids at the park cafe is the single luxury they allow themselves to keep within budget - there are plenty of people for whom this is a day to day reality. I count myself incredibly fortunate that I'm not one of them, but it's totally wrong to ignore that in the name of convenience.

This move basically tells anyone who is unbanked that they are not as welcome to use our public spaces and council run amenities, when they are exactly the kind of people who need the support most. In the US, a few cities have enacted laws that prevent restaurants from going cashless for exactly this reason. [www.citylab.com]

messageRe: Cafe in Peckham Rye goes cashless
Posted by pk October 09, 10:45AM

Siduhe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Put yourself in the position of a parent who doesn't have any spare
> cash, and for whom a once a week treat for their
> kids at the park cafe is the single luxury they
> allow themselves to keep within budget - there are
> plenty of people for whom this is a day to day
> reality.

Youíve got no idea whether people choose their single luxury to be a treat in the cafe at the park, seems unlikely to me

I think that suggesting that a cafe going cashless is socially exclusive is much less valid than the suggestion that a cafe that charges so much is exclusive

If the aim is to ensure accessibility, surely price should be the top issue?

messageRe: Cafe in Peckham Rye goes cashless
Posted by Siduhe October 09, 10:52AM

You're right - I don't have a specific example, but I work with organisations that are focused on financial inclusion and particularly supporting the unbanked, so I think I have a better understanding that most people in my (fortunate) position do about some of the choices that it drives.

Completely agree with you on price - I don't use the cafe so can't comment on that directly but I do think that council controlled facilities should be run in a way to make them available to the majority.

messageRe: Cafe in Peckham Rye goes cashless
Posted by Spartacus October 09, 11:00AM

There are two things here
1. Taking away the choice from the consumer who may vote with their feet
2. Some people give themselves a spending limit per day / week / month which is easier to track with cash as once it's gone you can't spend anymore but with card unless you check your balance carefully you can easily overspend

It's all about serving the customer not the business as the old adage of "the customer is always right" seems to have been forgotten by so many businesses

messageRe: Cafe in Peckham Rye goes cashless
Posted by paulu197 October 09, 01:54PM

I can't believe that people are stating that costs for card machines are prohibitive for cafes. They range in cost from £15 through to £75 and are hooked up via your wifi / mobile phone etc. This isn't a heavy cost for cafes or shops that decide to use one.

messageRe: Cafe in Peckham Rye goes cashless
Posted by tallulah71 October 09, 02:08PM

Agree with Frankito: DF-baiting is boring and off-topic

messageRe: Cafe in Peckham Rye goes cashless
Posted by Penguin68 October 09, 02:11PM

This isn't a heavy cost for cafes or shops that decide to use one.

Moving to cashless is in the bank' best interests, they don't have to handle cash (which has costs) and accounting is electronic. Banks should be offering machines virtually for free, considering the operational value to them of so doing, and particularly where debit or cash cards (credit risk-free) are concerned. Small enterprises run on small margins (often) - anything eating into that margin surely is unwelcome. However, cash handling has operational costs (and risks) for small enterprises, hence their many moving into cashless only (but some also offer cash only transactions - presumably each outlet is making its best estimate of cost efficiency).

messageRe: Cafe in Peckham Rye goes cashless
Posted by DulwichFox October 09, 02:44PM

tallulah71 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Agree with Frankito: DF-baiting is boring and
off-topic

Where am I baiting. ?? I am merely stating how I prefer do my shopping/buying.
I prefer cash . I find it easier to keep track of my spending.

The Topic of this thread is 'Cafe in Peckham Rye goes cashless'
Talking about not liking that idea and not liking being forced into carrying and using cards is Way ON topic.

Fox.

messageRe: Cafe in Peckham Rye goes cashless
Posted by pk October 09, 02:48PM

DulwichFox Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tallulah71 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Agree with Frankito: DF-baiting is boring and
> off-topic
>
> Where am I baiting. ?? I am merely stating how I
> prefer do my shopping/buying.
> I prefer cash . I find it easier to keep track of
> my spending.
>
> The Topic of this thread is 'Cafe in Peckham Rye
> goes cashless'
> Talking about not liking that idea and not liking
> being forced into carrying and using cards is Way
> ON topic.
>
> Fox.

I think theyíre defending you against evil me

messageRe: Cafe in Peckham Rye goes cashless
Posted by cella October 09, 04:23PM

DulwichFox Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tallulah71 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Agree with Frankito: DF-baiting is boring and
> off-topic
>
> Where am I baiting. ?? I am merely stating how I
> prefer do my shopping/buying.
> I prefer cash . I find it easier to keep track of
> my spending.
>
> The Topic of this thread is 'Cafe in Peckham Rye
> goes cashless'
> Talking about not liking that idea and not liking
> being forced into carrying and using cards is Way
> ON topic.
>
> Fox.


Get with the programme DF. You've slated Peckham on many an occasion and never seem to step out of your immediate environs to maybe get a wider perspective. You are continually being called out on it and always claim amnesia.

messageRe: Cafe in Peckham Rye goes cashless
Posted by DulwichFox October 09, 05:08PM

Noted.

messageRe: Cafe in Peckham Rye goes cashless
Posted by Willard October 10, 09:46PM

I rarely carry cash these days, ever since contact less pay came in I just carry cards in my wallet. And since apple pay came in I rarely even carry a wallet these days.

Anyway, just my 10 pence worth....

messageRe: Cafe in Peckham Rye goes cashless
Posted by micromacromonkey October 11, 10:31AM

Siduhe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you're someone (like me) who has a bank
> account, a regular salary or pension and who
> doesn't think much about buying a coffee on the
> way to work every day, this undoubtedly seems like
> a great, convenient idea.
>
> However, alongside of the practical issues for the
> elderly or people who don't work through illness -
> it's the overall signal this sends which I am
> uncomfortable with. Going cashless signals to
> people who rely on cash, and are almost certainly
> economically vulnerable, that "their kind" aren't
> welcome to share these spaces. Put yourself in the
> position of a parent who doesn't have any spare
> cash, and for whom a once a week treat for their
> kids at the park cafe is the single luxury they
> allow themselves to keep within budget - there are
> plenty of people for whom this is a day to day
> reality. I count myself incredibly fortunate that
> I'm not one of them, but it's totally wrong to
> ignore that in the name of convenience.
>
> This move basically tells anyone who is unbanked
> that they are not as welcome to use our public
> spaces and council run amenities, when they are
> exactly the kind of people who need the support
> most. In the US, a few cities have enacted laws
> that prevent restaurants from going cashless for
> exactly this reason.
> [www.citylab.com]
> sh-free-ban-bill-new-york-retail-discrimination/58
> 4203

Don't you also need a bank account to receive benefits now? There must be fewer and fewer people who do not have one. I guess a few of those could be without a contactless card. I used to have some sort of rubbish non-switch card switch card once, but I could still use it to buy stuff.

messageRe: Cafe in Peckham Rye goes cashless
Posted by Penguin68 October 11, 11:06AM

Although under 18s can now have debit cards - considering how many are mugged for e.g. phones I wouldn't want to risk a child having a card on them unaccompanied, which means that they will be restricted from buying stuff which, as a child myself (I can just remember that far back) I used to do - ice creams, pop and sweets. Independently buying small value items is sort-of part of what growing up's about. This is exactly the sort of outlet where that should be 'safe'.

messageRe: Cafe in Peckham Rye goes cashless
Posted by Siduhe October 11, 11:23AM

Quote:
micromacromonkey
Don't you also need a bank account to receive benefits now? There must be fewer and fewer people who do not have one. I guess a few of those could be without a contactless card. I used to have some sort of rubbish non-switch card switch card once, but I could still use it to buy stuff.

DWP certainly prefer to make a payment into a bank account, an account with a credit union or a prepaid card which can be reloaded to receive the majority of benefits now that universal credit has been rolled out. Pre-paid cards generally aren't contactless but you can use them like a normal debit card.

While most basic bank accounts or credit union accounts offer debit cards as part of the general package, the decision whether to issue one is an individual decision of the bank for any individual account, and the general rule of thumb is the less financially stable you are, the less likely you are to be offered a debit card even on a basic bank account, just a cashcard, so people end up using the account to pay bills via direct debit and taking out cash. It's a real failing (IMHO) of the drafting of the regulations which require the largest current account providers in the UK to offer fee-free basic bank accounts to customers who are either unbanked or who are ineligible for a standard current account.

Those people who can't even get a basic bank account (often because they are deemed too high risk because of previous financial difficulties or fraud) have to use something called the Payment Exceptions Service which is a voucher based system.

messageRe: Cafe in Peckham Rye goes cashless
Posted by DulwichFox October 11, 11:23AM

Lots of people play sports on the Common.
They may well not want to leave Phones and cards unattended whilst they are playing
and choose instead to carry small amounts of cash to buy a drink afterwards.

messageRe: Cafe in Peckham Rye goes cashless
Posted by micromacromonkey October 11, 11:41AM

Siduhe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> DWP certainly prefer to make a payment into a bank
> account, an account with a credit union or a
> prepaid card which can be reloaded to receive the
> majority of benefits now that universal credit has
> been rolled out. Pre-paid cards generally aren't
> contactless but you can use them like a normal
> debit card.
>
> While most basic bank accounts or credit union
> accounts offer debit cards as part of the general
> package, the decision whether to issue one is an
> individual decision of the bank for any individual
> account, and the general rule of thumb is the less
> financially stable you are, the less likely you
> are to be offered a debit card even on a basic
> bank account, just a cashcard, so people end up
> using the account to pay bills via direct debit
> and taking out cash. It's a real failing (IMHO)
> of the drafting of the regulations which require
> the largest current account providers in the UK to
> offer fee-free basic bank accounts to customers
> who are either unbanked or who are ineligible for
> a standard current account.
>
> Those people who can't even get a basic bank
> account (often because they are deemed too high
> risk because of previous financial difficulties or
> fraud) have to use something called the Payment
> Exceptions Service which is a voucher based
> system.

Thanks, useful information.

I do take issue with the general idea that you are more likely to spend irresponsibly with a card vs cash (which is surely the implication for not giving one to 'high risk'/rubbish with money type people). Surely if you go and withdraw a load of cash and you are bad at managing it then you are more likely to spend it if you have it sitting there.

I also strongly disagree that carrying cash is somehow safer than carrying a card as someone else suggested above. If you don't have contactless then the card is much more difficult to use than cash, and if you do have contactless then as long as you notify the bank you have a good chance of getting back any money spent on it, and if you have the bank's app (or you just call them up) you can put a temporary block on it.

messageRe: Cafe in Peckham Rye goes cashless
Posted by Bic Basher October 11, 06:07PM

It's not the only cashless park cafe. The one in Crystal Palace Park is also cashless.

messageRe: Cafe in Peckham Rye goes cashless
Posted by Beej October 12, 11:50AM

Good grief, I havenít used cash since 1999, Embrace the future people. 🙄

messageRe: Cafe in Peckham Rye goes cashless
Posted by Sue October 12, 01:16PM

Beej Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good grief, I havenít used cash since 1999,
> Embrace the future people. 🙄


Perhaps read the thread before posting?

Goto Page: Previous1234Next
Current Page: 2 of 4

Back to top of page
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
Donate                   Terms of use                  Help & FAQs                   Advertise               RSS rss feed               Copyright 2006 - 2018 East Dulwich Forum