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messageRe: Alleyns Junior School - planning
Posted by EDfor January 29, 06:22PM

That would certainly fit Alleyn's record of saying one thing & then doing another.
Today I believe is the last day to make a comment.

Southwark Planning Register ref: 19/AP/5616

at least according to the important docs section on their dreadful planning website! It would be nice to think there was an extension till 12th Feb

Also am I alone in thinking there ought to be a single clear summary of these proposals - who is going to download 75 different planning docs??



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit was january 30, 11:08am by EDfor.

messageRe: Alleyns Junior School - planning
Posted by goldilocks January 29, 06:38PM

[twitter.com]

Comments were extended until the 12th Feb

messageRe: Alleyns Junior School - planning
Posted by JEG1 January 30, 10:41AM

Kingsdale (Alleyn Park) has more pupils than Alleyn's senior school. Kingsdale's catchment is also getting wider every year, as they don't have a distance criteria on their admissions policy. They are also increasing their published intake this year, in response to the overwhelming demand for school places. I'm just comparing two local schools, one private, one state, same issues. Parents drive their children to both schools. Our population is growing and their aren't enough school places. We all need to stop driving everywhere, not just parents taking children to school. We also need school places.

messageRe: Alleyns Junior School - planning
Posted by DadOf4 January 30, 10:46AM

I have just added further comments to the planning application [planning.southwark.gov.uk]

It is worth noting that Alleyns are clearly trying to get "technical" here - the recent air quality report and transport plan are there to "scientifically" show how (a) there isn't really a problem (b) increased problems due to expansion will be insignificant/ below acceptable limits and (c) theyre doing lots to mitigate

I don't believe any of that and their air quality report is fundamentally flawed - but theyre playing a legal game around planning laws and using scaring looking reports to show that there is no case to answer. I therefore think that they will use this to try and discount "general" objections around air quality/traffic. I encourage others to look at their new information in detail


My comments on planning portal:

I would like to add further comments after the publishing of the documents "Air Quality Assessment" (3/1/20) and "Travel Plan" (7/1/20)

The air quality assessment has clearly been produced to create a case that the potential increased pollution is insignificant. Its data and method are fundamentally flawed and can not be used to draw the conclusions that the report makes. The use of AURN sites, which (with the exception of SD10) that are on streets that are likely to have zero traffic related to this school or its expansion , to form a baseline, is flawed. The increased pollution would be heavily localised and can only be modelled through use of monitoring sites on roads likely to be affected. This report is scientifically unfit for purpose and should be discounted.

It is also worth noting that Southwark is currently (and separately) consulting on other measures to deal with traffic pollution in this area. Results from that consultation show "Air quality profiles shows that pollution concentration is worse in around 7:00-10am and 15:00-19:00 "
It also states: "is an extremely high volume of pedestrian traffic at Dulwich Village and at the junction of East Dulwich Grove with Townley Road"
I find it ironic that Southwark council see the problem as bad enough to warrant a major, area wide, consultation but this report declares effectively that air pollution is within acceptable limits - when viewed from the context of one of the organisations contributing most to that traffic

Travel Plan
The travel plan outlines a set of objectives & initiatives to reduce car/taxi journeys by the school- which should be welcomed.
However, it is worth noting that any significant reductions from these initiatives are expected to take 5 years. It is also with noting that, out of the 35 initiatives listed to meet these objectives, 32 have their completion date listed as either "ongoing or TBC". This leads me to believe that these initiatives are simply pipe dreams or lip service to the planning authority
The local traffic chaos is happening now and will be made worse by these expansion plans. Local residents should not have to wait 5 years for mitigating initiatives to take effect.
Any planning permission for expansion of this school, should be only given on the explicit condition that most of these initiatives are in effect BEFORE that expansion happens
)

messageRe: Alleyns Junior School - planning
Posted by d.b January 30, 01:00PM

Nimby squad, assemble!

In all seriousness, this is a very minor change and I see no serious reason why you should object other than the obvious one of not wanting building work going on near your house. A handful of extra children at the junior school is not going to have any measurable effect on air quality. BTW I live right by the school and have never had a problem with it, they operate just the same as any other school.

messageRe: Alleyns Junior School - planning
Posted by redpost January 30, 02:15PM

They don't operate the same as any other school though do they, most state school places are allocated by distance allowing children to walk and cycle to school.

Private school parents are much wealthier than average, live much further away because of selection - and consequently much more likely to drive (or have nanny drive) kids to school long distances in a heavy SUV.

messageRe: Alleyns Junior School - planning
Posted by JEG1 January 31, 08:27AM

redpost Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They don't operate the same as any other school
> though do they, most state school places are
> allocated by distance allowing children to walk
> and cycle to school.
>
> Private school parents are much wealthier than
> average, live much further away because of
> selection - and consequently much more likely to
> drive (or have nanny drive) kids to school long
> distances in a heavy SUV.

My children go to a local state primary and loads of the parents drive their kids to and from school. My son nearly got knocked over by one.

messageRe: Alleyns Junior School - planning
Posted by DadOf4 January 31, 12:06PM

d.b Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nimby squad, assemble!
>
> In all seriousness, this is a very minor change
> and I see no serious reason why you should object
> other than the obvious one of not wanting building
> work going on near your house. A handful of extra
> children at the junior school is not going to have
> any measurable effect on air quality. BTW I live
> right by the school and have never had a problem
> with it, they operate just the same as any other
> school.



Well, Alleyn's acknowledge that they have a problem with transport- hence the proposed 35 different initiatives to reduce car travel - its just I have doubts about their intention to follow through on those initiatives.

They are also worried about air quality enough to commission a study - its just I have serious doubts about the conclusions of that study

messageRe: Alleyns Junior School - planning
Posted by WelshRich February 06, 08:32AM

Travel Plans and Air Quality Assessments are both, amongst many many others, standard requirements for planning applications these days across London boroughs. All part of being accountable and open to scrutiny. Not to submit them would be open to alternative criticisms

messageRe: Alleyns Junior School - planning
Posted by goldilocks February 06, 09:53AM

This is all true - its not the inclusion of them that is disingenuous - more some of the content! The air quality monitors chosen for the report ignore the closest monitors and cherry pick non comparable and further away data points.

The travel plan is interesting - but I note that all the mitigation plans are future pipe dreams rather than actually in place. Unless I've missed the huge crocodile of kids doing park and stride options from Sainsburys..... (no - thought not!)

messageRe: Alleyns Junior School - planning
Posted by DadOf4 February 06, 04:15PM

WelshRich Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Travel Plans and Air Quality Assessments are both,
> amongst many many others, standard requirements
> for planning applications these days across London
> boroughs. All part of being accountable and open
> to scrutiny. Not to submit them would be open to
> alternative criticisms


Nope - not in this case anyway.
No air quality assessment (of any kind) was provided with the planning application - that was added, much later, after the numerous objections

There was an initial travel plan - but did not really "admit" that there was much of a problem - but a new one has been added, again after all of the objections

messageRe: Alleyns Junior School - planning
Posted by AlleynView February 09, 11:57PM

It is disappointing to see Alleyn's being singled out as the source of air pollution problems in Dulwich. Bad air quality can't be pinned on just the school. Has no one else noticed the presence of builders, plumbers, utility vans etc. during the day? Delivery drivers? No one else use grocery delivery? Or Amazon? We walk to school like many families, but not having a car means we do damage in other ways. Itís a much larger issue than a few extra kids at one local school.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit was february 10, 06:01am by AlleynView.

messageRe: Alleyns Junior School - planning
Posted by creditwheredue February 10, 08:34AM

The odd builders can or grocery delivery doesnít cause the congestion during school hours that Alleynís coaches do.

messageRe: Alleyns Junior School - planning
Posted by slarti b February 10, 09:35AM

AlleynView Wrote:
>It is disappointing to see Alleyn's being singled out as the source of air pollution problems in Dulwich...

> in other ways. Itís a much larger issue than a few extra kids at one local school.

I agree that the problem is wider than just Alleyns however they are part of the problem and are making it worse.

This proposal is the latest in a long series of expansions and developments by the foundation schools. These result in considerable disruption and inconvenience for local residents to which the schools seem oblivious. Given the wider catchment area of the foundation schools and the higher proportion of their pupils coming to school by car this also affects air quality and traffic.

messageRe: Alleyns Junior School - planning
Posted by ari.quigley February 13, 12:15PM

There is an issue though with volume of traffic and a worrying level of inconsiderate and dangerous driving and parking around these schools though. As has been mentioned already, the nature of these schools means a higher proportion travel in, plus they are more likely to have siblings attending auto clicker different schools which means itís more likely they are driven to school, so most of the issues that also exist at local state schools are multiplied.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was february 14, 09:39am by ari.quigley.

messageRe: Alleyns Junior School - planning
Posted by yourmomma June 03, 08:55PM

Received the below today, planning officer is recommending that the proposal is approved...



I write to inform you that the above planning application will be considered by the Councilís Planning Committee through a Virtual Meeting due to measures put in place by the Government to prevent the spread of COVID-19 .

Date: 9th June 2020

Time: 19:00

If you would like to take part in the virtual meeting, please contact the Council's constitutional team, who will send you a link and further information on how to join the meeting: Email: Constitutional.Team@southwark.gov.uk Phone: 020 7525 7420 (for main planning and sub-committee A) and 020 7525 7234 (for sub-committee B).

The recommendation from officers is to approve planning permission.

My report on the application sets out the material planning considerations that have led to my recommendation. You can read my report on the Councilís website using this link:[planning.southwark.gov.uk] and selecting the document called "Officers report". Alternatively, you can search for the application on the council's planning register by accessing [planning.southwark.gov.uk], and then searching for application 19/AP/5616.

messageRe: Alleyns Junior School - planning
Posted by yourmomma June 03, 08:58PM

Hilariously they have uploaded a new parking survey that suggests that parking is not an issue in the surrounding streets, well why then have the council just instigated a CPZ in those very same streets!

messageRe: Alleyns Junior School - planning
Posted by James Barber June 04, 12:17PM

Alleyn's could always offer to accept a legal agreement (S106) that x% more than currently who live and remain living within walking distance of the school. Say 1km. It wouldn't guarantee they walk to school but it would significantly increase the chance they walk to school.
A two form entry primary school is considered better to run by the educationalists I've spoken to over the years.
The issue is people deriving the extra kids to school. The school could propose something that resolves this. If it doesn't then it really isn't trying to address the main issues of objectors.

--------------------
Regards jamesvbarber@gmail.com
former Liberal Democrat Councillor for East Dulwich Ward (2006-2018)
[www.jamesbarber.org.uk]
[twitter.com]

messageRe: Alleyns Junior School - planning
Posted by Glemham June 04, 01:00PM

If the Council agree to this application then they will be driving a coach and horses through their Our Healthy Streets proposals which are still subject to consultation. Unless Alleynís commits to only accepting children from the local area who will be able get to school without being driven, this expansion will add more cars to an area already at saturation point during term time.
In the current COVID 19 situation it is likely that when the older children return to school their parents will, understandably, be reluctant for them to use public transport. As so many come from some distance this will no doubt lead to a rise in the numbers coming by car.
At the very least the Council should consider adjourning this application until such time as it will be possible to know for certain just how pupils of all ages will be travelling to Alleynís (and other schools in the area)in future.

messageRe: Alleyns Junior School - planning
Posted by first mate June 04, 01:52PM

yourmomma Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hilariously they have uploaded a new parking
> survey that suggests that parking is not an issue
> in the surrounding streets, well why then have the
> council just instigated a CPZ in those very same
> streets!

Because it is a load of b*** that's why. They are making it up as they go along, shifting the goal posts each time per specific goal.Their parking surveys for planning purposes are 'cooked' and so in turn are their surveys for CPZ.

messageRe: Alleyns Junior School - planning
Posted by seenbeen June 04, 03:22PM

TheCat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If they guarantee places to local kids, I won't
> object....

I dare you to drive up to Francesca Cabrini school at chucking out time...or ANY 'faith' primary school.....you might change your tune. I might have a walk round and check out St Anthony's' traffic when we are back to normal! (did I need 2 apostrophes there- I think so)

messageRe: Alleyns Junior School - planning
Posted by goldilocks June 04, 10:15PM

its the 4th, the committee is convening on the 9th. The officers report is still not showing on the council website.

messageRe: Alleyns Junior School - planning
Posted by Glemham June 05, 06:28PM

Yes it is and they support it. But now the application has been removed from the agenda and will not be considered. A new date is to be fixed.

messageRe: Alleyns Junior School - planning
Posted by jamesmcash June 06, 05:29PM

My fellow Goose Green councillors and I will speak at the committee meeting when it is eventually held, to raise some of our concerns.

If you have strong views on this application - positive or negative - please let us know.

Best wishes
James

--------------------
James McAsh - Labour Councillor for Goose Green ward
James.McAsh@Southwark.gov.uk
[www.jamesmcash.com] [twitter.com]

Surgeries: 2nd and 4th Thursdays of the month at 7pm, East Dulwich Community Centre on Darrell Road

Sign up to the Goose Green councillor newsletter: [www.jamesmcash.com]

messageRe: Alleyns Junior School - planning
Posted by DadOf4 July 01, 10:38AM

@jamesmcash - would really appreciate your representation on this. Alleyns seem to be playing the game of "this is only a tiny incremental change". The fact is that ANY change to this already unsustainable problem is not acceptable


I have no fundamental problem with a school (whether state or independently funded) wanting to create more classrooms - but I do have a problem with a school that has blatantly shown disregard for local traffic and pollution issues trying to mask the problem through skewed reports and vague initiatives.

By way of illustration, the Upper School (6th Form) handbook sent out to students only a week ago
has a section on students who drive to school "Pupils who drive to School must show due consideration to our neighbours when parking, and should not obstruct driveways, public thoroughfares or access to properties"

This is not a policy from an organisation that genuinely is trying to reduce car use

IMO this planning permission should only be given on the basis that firm/legal commitments are made on the initives that Alleyns claim they are implmenting

messageRe: Alleyns Junior School - planning
Posted by intexasatthe moment July 02, 08:54AM

Just looking at the documentation on line .This is v telling .

Total Consulted: 273 Comments Received: 107 Objections: 98 Supporting: 2

messageRe: Alleyns Junior School - planning
Posted by northernmonkey July 03, 07:49AM

I think this is the key point. I don't care whether Alleyn's have 30 kids or 60 kids in their junior intake. What i do care very much about is the impact their model has on the air quality locally. The report talks vaguely about things that 'might be available' and cherry picks air quality monitoring ignoring the closest monitor which shows illegal pollution levels and picks ones further away on quiet residential streets which are restricted as school streets.

To the extent that this planning permission is given i would like it to be given only on the understanding that Alleyns implement a school street on Hillsboro Road, Townley Road and Greendale. Preventing drop off right outside the school will be key to reducing parents driving there - and making the Hillsboro Road route safer provides an alternative cycling route to much of East Dulwich Grove for families cycling to school.


DadOf4 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @jamesmcash - would really appreciate your
> representation on this. Alleyns seem to be playing
> the game of "this is only a tiny incremental
> change". The fact is that ANY change to this
> already unsustainable problem is not acceptable
>
>
> I have no fundamental problem with a school
> (whether state or independently funded) wanting to
> create more classrooms - but I do have a problem
> with a school that has blatantly shown disregard
> for local traffic and pollution issues trying to
> mask the problem through skewed reports and vague
> initiatives.
>
> By way of illustration, the Upper School (6th
> Form) handbook sent out to students only a week
> ago
> has a section on students who drive to school
> "Pupils who drive to School must show due
> consideration to our neighbours when parking, and
> should not obstruct driveways, public
> thoroughfares or access to properties"
>
> This is not a policy from an organisation that
> genuinely is trying to reduce car use
>
> IMO this planning permission should only be given
> on the basis that firm/legal commitments are made
> on the initives that Alleyns claim they are
> implmenting

messageRe: Alleyns Junior School - planning
Posted by seenbeen July 03, 12:19PM

The fact that we have the Dulwich Estate and the Foundation schools here means that we all enjoy the environs as opposed to living in a total concrete hell hole. (especially during the lockdown when the playing field was open- I notice that Southwark didn't open up its playing fields on the South Circular)

Anyway, I'm sure we are all well aware of the extra volume of traffic at 'school run' time and try to avoid it....and hardly any of it will be due to private schools as only 7% of British children are privately educated and 1% of those are boarding - so only 6% of British schoolchildren travel on a daily basis to and from school and quite a few use public transport as I have seen in Dulwich alone.

messageRe: Alleyns Junior School - planning
Posted by mlteenie July 06, 11:01PM

There are plenty of private school kids who are driven (and even drive.....) to school in this area precisely because of the number of those schools. We see it every day of normal school term. Anyone round here knows the streets are relatively empty of cars when it is holiday time.

messageRe: Alleyns Junior School - planning
Posted by redpost July 08, 01:29PM

Those figures are national averages and will include the many public schools in rural areas where pollution is less of a problem. This area is over-represented with public schools, the roads are busy and therefore the public schools generate a very significant amount of traffic and pollution.


seenbeen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The fact that we have the Dulwich Estate and the
> Foundation schools here means that we all enjoy
> the environs as opposed to living in a total
> concrete hell hole. (especially during the
> lockdown when the playing field was open- I notice
> that Southwark didn't open up its playing fields
> on the South Circular)
>
> Anyway, I'm sure we are all well aware of the
> extra volume of traffic at 'school run' time and
> try to avoid it....and hardly any of it will be
> due to private schools as only 7% of British
> children are privately educated and 1% of those
> are boarding - so only 6% of British
> schoolchildren travel on a daily basis to and from
> school and quite a few use public transport as I
> have seen in Dulwich alone.

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