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The East Dulwich Forum
The Bishop, The EDT, The Great Exhibition, the Actress or another?
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messageRe: Dog Fouler on Lordship Lane - noon 23/10/19
Posted by intexasatthe moment November 08, 10:07PM

Not an answer Admin . Everything is debatable .

I think this thread doesn't count as education ,as said I think it's a vehicle for punishing someone thought to have done something wrong . Debate away - what do you think ?

messageRe: Dog Fouler on Lordship Lane - noon 23/10/19
Posted by Sue November 08, 10:11PM

Are people suggesting that KidKruger has posted a picture of a woman on here who was just a random person passing by?

With no good reason for doing it?

Come on ....

messageRe: Dog Fouler on Lordship Lane - noon 23/10/19
Posted by intexasatthe moment November 08, 10:13PM

I'm sure KK had a reason for posting ,I'm also sure that the woman isn't someone random to him .

messageRe: Dog Fouler on Lordship Lane - noon 23/10/19
Posted by Administrator November 08, 10:32PM

Oh, tell us more, how do they know each other?

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The Administrator
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messageRe: Dog Fouler on Lordship Lane - noon 23/10/19
Posted by lucy123 November 08, 10:33PM

NOW SOMEONE WITH SENSE, YES IM STARTING TO FEEL LIKE THIS IS PERSONAL TOO! FROM HIS COMMENT, BEEN DOING IT FOR YEARS AND YOU DONT KNOW WHAT I KNOW!
HE CANNOT CONTAIN HIS BITTERNESS,

I CAN NOT RECALL THE INCIDENT HE ACCUSES ME OFF BUT EVEN IF IT HAPPENED, HE HAS NO RIGHT TO PUBLICALLY HUMILIATE HATTESS AND STRESS ME! - PERIOD! I CANT UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE ARE OVERLOOKING HIS TERRIBLE BEHAVIOUR!
IT IS A FORM OF BULLYING IM SURE, ONLY A SOLICITOR WILL ADVISE ME AND I WILL DO THAT IN MY OWN LEISURE

IN MY OPION, SUPPORTING HUMILIATING BEHVIOUR SAYS ALOT ABOUT YOUR CHARACTORS TOO!
WHAT HAPPEN ABOUT NOT GUILTY TILL PROVEN, SEEM LIKE PEOPLE ARR ON THE BAND WAGON WITHOUT FACTUAL EVIDENCE! SHAME ON YOU THOSE WHO SUPPORT IT!
I DO NOT HOPE THAT THIS DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR HAPPENS TO ANY OF YOU! EBEN THOU IM STRESSED, IM STILL NOT A BITTER PERSON!
THANK YOU FOR THOSE REASONABLE PEOPLE WHO HAVE A BIT OF EMPATHY AND RECOGNISE HIS ATTROCIOUS ACTIOONS.

KK YOU ATR A HORRIBLE PERSON IN MY OPION!, I BELIEVE YOU WILL FIND YOUR CALLING ONE DAY, IM SURE THAT ADMINISTRATOR APPRECIATES YOUR THREADS, CAUSE OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU, YOU KEEP THE FORUM GOING! YAY

I



Edited 10 time(s). Last edit was november 08, 10:54pm by lucy123.

messageRe: Dog Fouler on Lordship Lane - noon 23/10/19
Posted by intexasatthe moment November 08, 10:57PM

"Oh, tell us more, how do they know each other?" - nothing to tell ,why do you ask ?

For clarity - when I say "I'm sure" I'm using an expression . Couldn't prove it in a criminal court ,but as KK has pointed out ,this isn't one .

messageRe: Dog Fouler on Lordship Lane - noon 23/10/19
Posted by first mate November 09, 07:13AM

I'm with Texas on this one. It doesn't feel comfortable and has a whiff of online vigilantism about it (if there even is such a thing). Glad Admin has taken the photo down.

That said, I don't think KK would make it up.

messageRe: Dog Fouler on Lordship Lane - noon 23/10/19
Posted by rahrahrah November 09, 09:12AM

I don’t really agree with publishing photos. We don’t have public stocks anymore for good reason. That said, I would be surprised if the story is just made up and Lucy is not exactly denying it happened. So not that much sympathy.

messageRe: Dog Fouler on Lordship Lane - noon 23/10/19
Posted by Angelina November 09, 09:13AM

Well said.

messageRe: Dog Fouler on Lordship Lane - noon 23/10/19
Posted by KidKruger November 09, 09:26AM

The poo was light-brown and had sweet corn in it.
What further ‘proof’ does anyone need ?!

messageRe: Dog Fouler on Lordship Lane - noon 23/10/19
Posted by KidKruger November 09, 09:33AM

“I'm sure KK had a reason for posting ,I'm also sure that the woman isn't someone random to him .”

1. I'm sure KK had a reason for posting.
Correct, hopefully that’s clear in my OP !

2. I'm also sure that the woman isn't someone random to him.
Incorrect. The street-fouler was random to me until that day.
Let’s not confuse Netflix with the real world !

messageRe: Dog Fouler on Lordship Lane - noon 23/10/19
Posted by intexasatthe moment November 09, 09:34AM

Two wrongs don't make a right .

I really disliked the mindset of this thread which to me smacked v much of vigilantism and seemed to be being proposed ( even if in a light hearted way ) as an alternative to the stocks

"the behaviour has to stop and short of putting somebody in the stocks and throwing rotten fruit at them it isn’t going to be fixed."

I was surprised that Admin allowed the pic to go up in the first place and even more surprised by Admins's posts which to me seemed ambigious ( an ambiguity which wasn't clarified when I questioned it ) and easily intepreted as supporting this form of public stocks .

messageRe: Dog Fouler on Lordship Lane - noon 23/10/19
Posted by intexasatthe moment November 09, 09:40AM

Thanks for clarifying . It was this post that I clearly misread.


"What IS against the law - and socially uncool - is having yer dog shite on the MAIN SHOPPING STREET in the town.
And other streets locally.
Every day.
For years."

Another case of is it a remark general in nature or is it a rematk aimed at someone in particular .The joys of the written word .

messageRe: Dog Fouler on Lordship Lane - noon 23/10/19
Posted by Angelina November 09, 09:43AM

I bet we see a reduction in fouling dog owners.

We know the authorities do not have resources to keep our children safe, let alone our streets clean.

messageRe: Dog Fouler on Lordship Lane - noon 23/10/19
Posted by Penguin68 November 09, 05:01PM

I have noticed, over the few years I have been following this forum, that posts on dogs - either their fouling or their attacks on people and other dogs - are started, or revived, about every 6 weeks. It would seem that, much as many love dogs (and I do as well, though I haven't had care of one for over 50 years) they are uneasy cohabitees in an urban setting.

I very much doubt whether KK has invented the incident he reported out of whole cloth - why would he bother?

And I fully understand the frustration so many have, particularly responsible dog owners, on those few who continue to give them a bad name. There was uncollected dog poo, he did collect and dispose of it as a responsible citizen, and I fully understand his desire to point the finger at the person he believed (alleged in good faith, I would argue) was the transgressor (a transgression not just of social norms, but of the law).

We have accepted pictures of other transgressors and law breakers on this forum. Of course it partly smacks of bullying, and he has presented no evidence other than his word - but I cannot see that this should automatically or necessarily not be believed. Not collecting dog poo, particularly that left in busy shopping streets, (and there are other places too equally heinous, such as in playgrounds and near schools) is disgusting and a disgrace.

If other mechanisms cannot or do not work, public exposure may be a (necessary) last resort.

messageRe: Dog Fouler on Lordship Lane - noon 23/10/19
Posted by intexasatthe moment November 09, 07:52PM

Public exposure in this way still smacks of taking the law into one's own hands .

And I don't agree that if other mechanisms don't work that public exposure is the answer* - it is too open to abuse .

I'm not sure if other mechanisms were tried here ?

It might be difficult and tedious ( collecting evidence and following the law can be ) but there have been succesful prosecutions brought where photographic evidence has resulted in a conviction
[www.great-yarmouth.gov.uk]

[nappyvalleynet.com]

[www.stroud.gov.uk]

* I appreciate it was not put as strongly as that



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was november 09, 07:53pm by intexasatthe moment.

messageRe: Dog Fouler on Lordship Lane - noon 23/10/19
Posted by Angelina November 09, 08:11PM

So the lesson is, take photos...better, clearer, of dog and owner and mess and don't post on public forum, go straight to police. If poss, get cctv

messageRe: Dog Fouler on Lordship Lane - noon 23/10/19
Posted by Frankito November 09, 09:39PM

And analysis paralysis isn’t the answer either....!! Let’s just leave them to it as we don’t want to risk ever offending anyone....


moment Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Public exposure in this way still smacks of taking
> the law into one's own hands .
>
> And I don't agree that if other mechanisms don't
> work that public exposure is the answer* - it is
> too open to abuse .
>
> I'm not sure if other mechanisms were tried here
> ?
>
> It might be difficult and tedious ( collecting
> evidence and following the law can be ) but there
> have been succesful prosecutions brought where
> photographic evidence has resulted in a conviction
>
> [www.great-yarmouth.gov.uk]
> lic-thanked-as-Great-Yarmouth-Borough-Council-secu
> res-20th-dog-fouling-prosecution-in-under-three-ye
> ars
>
> [nappyvalleynet.com]
> ?t=97988
>
> [www.stroud.gov.uk]
> -costs-owner-1-000-after-stroud-district-council-t
> akes-him-to-court
>
> * I appreciate it was not put as strongly as that

messageRe: Dog Fouler on Lordship Lane - noon 23/10/19
Posted by Seabag November 10, 08:07AM

Sue Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are people suggesting that KidKruger has posted a
> picture of a woman on here who was just a random
> person passing by?
>
> With no good reason for doing it?
>
> Come on ....

Exactly, come on.

messageRe: Dog Fouler on Lordship Lane - noon 23/10/19
Posted by first mate November 10, 08:55AM

It seems part of the justification for posting photos is that dog fouling is a criminal offence and it's nasty...all true. However, other forms of littering are also a criminal offence. Suppose I decide to post up pictures of people I see dumping ciggie butts or empty beer bottles, or chicken bones? What about footballers who publicly urinate on Peckham Rye- another criminal offence- should we post photos of them up? What about spitting in the street? None of these examples to be photographed while caught in the act mind, just saying I saw them do it with a photo to identify and shame them, on a public forum.

If you have evidence you take it through the proper channels, if you don't I am not sure the above is the way to go.

Again, I personally believe KK. I think use of phrases like 'I don't recall' go some way to a tacit admission by the dog owner that it probably did happen. If this person was seen allowing their dog to foul and not clean up on a regular basis I would suggest there is an opportunity to gather evidence and take it to the council. However, it could also be that the dog owner genuinely did not notice, or had left the house that day without a poo bag, and this may be the first time she fell short of her responsibilities...we all make mistakes. If the latter, being publicly shamed by a photo seems especially harsh.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was november 10, 08:57am by first mate.

messageRe: Dog Fouler on Lordship Lane - noon 23/10/19
Posted by Sue November 10, 09:25AM

first mate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It seems part of the justification for posting
> photos is that dog fouling is a criminal offence
> and it's nasty...all true. However, other forms of
> littering are also a criminal offence. Suppose I
> decide to post up pictures of people I see dumping
> ciggie butts or empty beer bottles, or chicken
> bones? What about footballers who publicly urinate
> on Peckham Rye- another criminal offence-


These things do not get on your shoes or buggy wheels and then into your house, get on children, or cause blindness in children.

messageRe: Dog Fouler on Lordship Lane - noon 23/10/19
Posted by first mate November 10, 09:45AM

Agreed, but look at the environmental impact and cost of other types of litter- cigarette butts and plastics for starters- these are not 'harmless'. Granted, the immediate personal cost may not be so great but they still have a negative impact. Broken glass is another and there is loads of it around.

I understand the considerable rage and disgust experienced after stepping in dog poop and it is massively inconvenient to have to clean it off- not to mention the dangers to health for children and pregnant women, I doubt anyone is disputing that. But I still don't agree that posting up photos of alleged perpetrators, without clear cut evidence, is the way to go. if you have all that then the person can be properly reported. If online photo shaming becomes more prevalent it would be open to abuse. It is a modern version of the stocks and I could not support that.

messageRe: Dog Fouler on Lordship Lane - noon 23/10/19
Posted by binkylilyput November 10, 11:29AM

We regularly see cctv pics posted of apparently dodgy people coming to people’s front doors.
KK actually saw this person leave the poo with his owns eyes. Obviously a pity he didn’t manage to get the actual act but that would be impossible.

Tough for the lady to to have this made public. Anyone would feel ashamed by this. So next time, pick up the poo.
Shame avoided.

Plus the longer this thread goes on, the more potential poo leavers might see it and think twice about it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was november 10, 12:29pm by binkylilyput.

messageRe: Dog Fouler on Lordship Lane - noon 23/10/19
Posted by FreyaMikaelson November 10, 11:46AM

I just find it ironic that the dog fouler calls herself a "reliable" and "experienced" cleaner, dog walker and pet sitter.

messageRe: Dog Fouler on Lordship Lane - noon 23/10/19
Posted by Sephiroth November 10, 03:28PM

The “rights and wrongs” of publishing photos of criminals seems to be deflecting from someone who is completely out of order (multiple meanings. Feel free to choose your preference)

If I was walking my dog and accidentally or otherwise allowed them to do what the OP describes, and I was pictured on here I can absolutely be sure that I would be contrite. I wouldn’t want my picture ON here but I would hold my hands UP, apologise and then request the pictures be removed

Pictures on here? Not great but then again cameras are everywhere
Stop your public fouling (be it dogs or your own litter) and don’t get so CAPITAL LETTER BADLY SPELLED SHOUTY WEIRD

This isn’t hard

messageRe: Dog Fouler on Lordship Lane - noon 23/10/19
Posted by tiddles November 10, 08:40PM

I have been reading this with interest. Then it struck me. Bit slow I know - but the dog was on a lead.

As a dog owner you know if your dog has done a poo or not.

Yes there is an argument about publishing photos or not - but the accused has done nothing but protest in capitals about harassment and not ‘recalling’ the incident.

I am dog owner and I know damn well if my dog does a poo or not - esp on lead

messageRe: Dog Fouler on Lordship Lane - noon 23/10/19
Posted by FreyaMikaelson November 10, 08:50PM

Clearly she doesn't like to take responsibility for her actions, so any offers of services by this woman should be taken with caution.

messageRe: Dog Fouler on Lordship Lane - noon 23/10/19
Posted by Asset November 11, 11:25AM

I've seen several posts on here where people have put pictures up. For example the woman with the 2 white staffie dogs that were attacking other dogs, teenagers misbehaving in the street, security cam pictures of people at doors.
None of these have caused such a debate as this one and I wonder why that is? Is it just because the 'perpetrator' has come on (rather shoutily) to decry the behaviour.

I personally think it is a little dubious to post pictures of people on a public forum without their consent but I don't think it's illegal.

I also think that people who leave their dog's poo on the street should be called out on it.

messageRe: Dog Fouler on Lordship Lane - noon 23/10/19
Posted by JohnL November 11, 12:04PM

People can post photos IMHO but if the person in the photos asks for them to be removed they should be (again IMHO).

The guys in many of the photo's on here have no idea they're there - not sure if that's right but it's how it is.

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