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messageOur Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3
Posted by bobbsy January 28, 01:34PM

Phase 3 starts tomorrow:

[www.southwark.gov.uk]

messageRe: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3
Posted by spider69 January 28, 01:41PM

If Southwark could bring this in why could they not bring it in for Champion Hill instead of closing it down and pushing traffic through smaller roads.

Residents did ask for the same plan but were ignored.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was january 28, 01:43pm by spider69.

messageRe: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3
Posted by Serena2012 January 28, 02:13PM

If you live on East Dulwich Grove/one of the other roads likely to be adversely impacted, and are concerned by these proposals, please PM me.

messageRe: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3
Posted by tiddles January 28, 03:16PM

I have filled in the questionnaire - this looks a nightmare - extremely long convoluted journeys to get from A to B.

I predict very slow traffic on the main roads, with increased air pollution due to it.

they managed to mess up the junction in the village (people not realising who has the right of way - also the bike lights send you through the red light for the cars, but it is also the same light for the crossing - I have cycled thru when the green man was illuminated because there is nothing to signal this to the bike rider.

messageRe: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3
Posted by mikeb January 28, 03:47PM

This looks like a complete waste of money and time.

messageRe: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3
Posted by johnie January 28, 04:01PM

I think these are rubbish proposals. Traffic is just going to divert onto East Dulwich Grove and onto Lordship Lane through the horribly dangerous (for pedestrians) junction.

messageRe: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3
Posted by Spartacus January 28, 04:01PM

Interesting that they are proposing parking controls in the Dulwich village side of lordship lane...

Does this mean extending the new CPZ by default ?

Trust in this council will be at an all time low if they are.

messageRe: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3
Posted by rahrahrah January 28, 04:05PM

These don't look like bad plans to be honest. Would like to see something similar for ED though.

messageRe: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3
Posted by rollflick January 28, 04:41PM

If you are going to tackle air pollution, carbon emissions, road danger & congestion by enabling a wider range of people to get around without a car, it's hard to see how anything other than these plans would work. And as that's what most people have said they want in countless consultations, whether in the Dulwich area, borough wide or in London as a whole want, we should now get on with it.

Yes there will be some angry and shouty people seeking to dominate the public meetings, yes there will be teething problems. What is important is that rather than put faith (and more time & money) in traffic modelling, which is at best an inexact science, physical measures such as the permeable closures are implemented quickly in temporary materials, so there can be fine-tuning along with the further changes to adjacent roads the consultation mentions.

Lambeth is consulting on major improvements to Rosendale Road, making improvements to Turney Road particularly more important for there to be continuous, safe and unpolluted routes to enable a much wider range of people to walk and cycle.

spider69 - there is going to be a similar consultation for Camberwell including Champion Hill, hopefully proof of joined up thinking emerging!

messageRe: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3
Posted by spider69 January 28, 04:50PM

If I am honest I have more faith in a condon with the top cut off than Southwark and joined up thoughts. Lets see

messageRe: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3
Posted by carlafindle January 28, 05:06PM

... a condon?

messageRe: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3
Posted by spider69 January 28, 05:12PM

Condom, could have been in trouble.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was january 28, 05:13pm by spider69.

messageRe: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3
Posted by mikeb January 28, 05:28PM

The big problem with transport in this area is lack of East-West routes due to both geography (hills) and history (the estate). Closing one of these routes is not going to help and doesn't address _why_ people are driving.

Edited to add: the other problem with transport in this area is non-local pupils and (to a lesser extent) non-local teachers and employees.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was january 28, 05:30pm by mikeb.

messageRe: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3
Posted by Lou January 28, 06:47PM

Having looked at it, it proposes to close Townley Road from 7am-10am & 3pm-7pm to everyone except residents & other permit holders - Wonder who the other permit holders will be? The coaches? Does anyone have anymore info? Would love to see the info on the air pollution and traffic when private & then state schools are on holiday, to compare with when they aren't - Does this info exist anywhere?
I walk my kids to school along Townley Road everyday & there is clearly an issue, but I would say the main issue is the coaches and people using Calton Avenue as a cut through avoid Red Post Hill lights/queues.

messageRe: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3
Posted by exdulwicher January 28, 08:04PM

Quote:
Would love to see the info on the air pollution and traffic when private & then state schools are on holiday, to compare with when they aren't - Does this info exist anywhere?

Try @CleanAirDulwich on Twitter, they may have some info on traffic stats in and out of term time.
[twitter.com]
Quote:
I have filled in the questionnaire - this looks a nightmare - extremely long convoluted journeys to get from A to B.

Which is the generally accepted way of getting people out of private cars. You make the neighbourhood permeable to buses, bicycles, scooters, and on foot and then direct cars around the long way. Works well in places like Ghent and Amsterdam. Madrid and Oslo have recently introduced very similar systems too. You allow traffic in and out (obviously - plenty of people need a car in some apsects of their lives) but you just restrict the "throughflow" - the people who drive straight through, use it as a rat-run, don't stop and use the shops, don't benefit the community.

To be fair, as mentioned above, the whole area needs drastic action. Tinkering around the edges with CPZ and speed humps and parking charges in the parks isn't really helping much. Ultimately you have to force modal shift sometimes; carrot works for some of it (like making it easier to travel by bike or on foot) but you need some stick too (like charging for parking or making it more difficult to drive a couple of km).

messageRe: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3
Posted by rahrahrah January 28, 09:41PM

Will push a lot more traffic down East Dulwich grove and past the new school. Slightly concerned that this will
improve air quality in the village at the expense of the greater number of people living in ED. Donít get me wrong, I think theyíre good plans, but would be good to have an area wide plan that includes East Dulwich

messageRe: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3
Posted by Monkey January 28, 09:59PM

Completely agree Rahrahrah. Itís all about North Dulwich. Can we close ED to their 4X4s please, local councillors? Any of you here?

messageRe: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3
Posted by Monkey January 28, 10:14PM

And yes, Mike B, the problem is non local pupils. The Dulwich Village junction is completely fine as soon as private schools break up...

messageRe: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3
Posted by rollflick January 28, 10:43PM

rahrahrah & Monkey
The council does not have the staff capacity to consult and deliver on large parts of the borough all at once and is also busy doing lots elsewhere, e.g. around Rotherhithe. Separate plans are being brought forward for the Lordship Lane area in a few months: [moderngov.southwark.gov.uk]

The main thing is to get strong support for this ambitious Dulwich scheme so that officers and councillors get used to proposing, supporting and delivering effective schemes - rather than just surveys and studies that lead simply to (cycle) symbols painted on rat runs. That sadly seems to be the situation still in the Bellenden area.

messageRe: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3
Posted by Shaggy January 28, 10:53PM

No. The main thing is to stop this ridiculous proposal which has the effect of stopping people in East Dulwich from using public roads to drive to work, but gives North Dulwichers beautifully empty roads for their two minute drive to Alleyns.

ollflick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> rahrahrah & Monkey
> The council does not have the staff capacity to
> consult and deliver on large parts of the borough
> all at once and is also busy doing lots elsewhere,
> e.g. around Rotherhithe. Separate plans are being
> brought forward for the Lordship Lane area in a
> few months:
> [moderngov.southwark.gov.uk]
> me.aspx?IId=50021892&Opt=0
>
> The main thing is to get strong support for this
> ambitious Dulwich scheme so that officers and
> councillors get used to proposing, supporting and
> delivering effective schemes - rather than just
> surveys and studies that lead simply to (cycle)
> symbols painted on rat runs. That sadly seems to
> be the situation still in the Bellenden area.

messageRe: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3
Posted by Monkey January 28, 10:59PM

Iím certainly not going to support a scheme which is going to push me onto a hellish commute which will take me an additional 1h20 minutes a day. Oh and thatís when I donít have to go to parentsí evening in Deptford which is where the council suggested i send my daughter to secondary...

Happy to leave my car behind but give me good local transport.

messageRe: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3
Posted by alice January 28, 11:04PM

Itís a ridiculous plan. Agree with Shaggy. Doesnít anyone in the council have a strategic overview? Bring back the GLC.

messageRe: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3
Posted by ed_pete January 28, 11:11PM

Can I have a exclusive gated community permeable barrier please ?

messageRe: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3
Posted by Townleygreen January 28, 11:18PM

Looks a great plan.

Should frustrate drivers (including me!) so we'll walk or use our bikes+less air pollution.

Works for me!

messageRe: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3
Posted by Monkey January 28, 11:22PM

Itís basically cutting off EDís access to Brixton, the only major transport hub in the area.

messageRe: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3
Posted by geh January 29, 06:57AM

sad that the proposals overlook the opportunity to improve east west public transport (ie the single bus to/from Brixton being the unreliable 37), and also it appears that the £££'s and disruption attributed to the Court Rd/Carlton Avenue/Dulwich Village junction "improvements" were in fact for nothing. No consideration to knock on/displacement ie Lordship Lane/Sth Circular at Grove Tavern, East Dulwich Grove/Melbourne Grove.

messageRe: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3
Posted by creditwheredue January 29, 08:06AM

Dulwich Village is going to cop it too. The right turn from the south circular into College Road is going to be terrible, only a few cars can turn here on green even at present. The south circular in general is going to awful. But I guess thatís what they want.

messageRe: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3
Posted by geh January 29, 08:30AM

Rather slanted survey, no opportunity to comment generally, presumably specifically designed to disallow.

Question 4 regarding potential hours for Townley Road closure is similar to the questions Southwark adopted in the East Dulwich CPZ survey and slanted towards the response they want.

No mention of public transport whatsoever.

messageRe: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3
Posted by Monkey January 29, 08:44AM

Excellent point from Goldilocks on the Alleynís expansion thread. The data shows that traffic outside term time is fine, which completely fits in with my observations. So we are having our daily lives disrupted because of a bunch of kids being driven from all over London to a couple of prestigious private schools. Thatís the thank you we get for voting in Labour in this area. At the very least, Alleynís should not be allowed to expand further.

messageRe: Our Healthy Streets - Dulwich: Phase 3
Posted by goldilocks January 29, 09:21AM

Not sure what I meant was that traffic is Ďfineí at other times, more that itís much worse when the schools are in.

In terms of Calton Ave though, itís disproportionately busy year round. Itís supposed to be a quietway but its a í hostileí cycling environment all the time. Too many parked cars meaning that traffic close passes too often meaning even when quiet itís not an appropriate environment for my kids to cycle on. Itís a residential road that because of geography and apps such as google maps and waze has become busier than many main roads.

The other proposed changes in that area are timed closures so could be term time only.

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