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messageLordship Lane .. North Cross rd. getting back to Normality .
Posted by DulwichFox June 16, 04:15PM

Was out and about 15.30 ish.

Lordship Lane .. North Cross rd. Lots of shops now open. Lots of people about..

Memsaab Restaurant has been refurbished. Plan to re-open mid July ? If allowed to do so.
Restricted seating.. ??

Jazz Barbers seems so have had a Refurb with social distancing in mind ready to re-open when allowed ??

Seemed to of been a decrease in Mask wearing.. Are people just feeling more confident or just reluctant ??

People just seemed happier. The sunshine seems to help.

Foxy

messageRe: Lordship Lane .. North Cross rd. getting back to Normality .
Posted by jimlad48 June 16, 10:41PM

I live in hope there has been an outbreak of collective sanity after weeks of total overeaction, panic and hysteria. Fingers crossed we can get on living soon, safe in the knowledge that 100% of people born will die, and just get the heck on with our lives.

messageRe: Lordship Lane .. North Cross rd. getting back to Normality .
Posted by KidKruger June 17, 08:25AM

Some interesting slogans there jimlad.
‘Overreaction’ is an interesting word to use - I know the UK Govt has hardly reacted (no actual lockdown even yet), so you can’t mean them. The people have still crammed beaches, held parties, etc. so you can’t mean them.
So Who ?

messageRe: Lordship Lane .. North Cross rd. getting back to Normality .
Posted by Sue June 17, 09:09AM

jimlad48 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I live in hope there has been an outbreak of
> collective sanity after weeks of total
> overeaction, panic and hysteria. Fingers crossed
> we can get on living soon, safe in the knowledge
> that 100% of people born will die, and just get
> the heck on with our lives.


I assume that neither you nor anybody you love/know has been affected by this virus, and that you believe that the thousands of deaths are due to panic and hysteria?

And the New Zealand (for example) government's swift and effective actions - you also think those were due to panic and hysteria?

New Zealand has (apart from the latest glitch caused by infected people from this country) been able to get back to normal due to what you describe as overreaction, panic and hysteria.

Yes, 100% of people born will die. Well spotted. However some of us would prefer not to die avoidable and unpleasant deaths because of the failures of both the government and selfish people who think even lax and confused guidelines are overreaction, panic and hysteria and therefore they can just ignore them.

😬



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit was june 17, 09:42am by Sue.

messageRe: Lordship Lane .. North Cross rd. getting back to Normality .
Posted by DulwichFox June 17, 09:48AM

Interesting that the UK has some of the most Stringent Restrictions on Social Distancing
and Self Isolation ..

..and Yet some of the worst figures on Covid-19 occurrences and Deaths..

Perhaps for some people, a little exposure is actually needed to create a level of immunity..

As I understand it, Vaccines are actually a minute dose of any Virus.

Foxy

messageRe: Lordship Lane .. North Cross rd. getting back to Normality .
Posted by Sue June 17, 10:51AM

DulwichFox Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Interesting that the UK has some of the most
> Stringent Restrictions on Social Distancing
> and Self Isolation ..
>


Compared to who?

The UK locked down too late and not completely, and thousands of deaths could have been avoided if they had locked down even two weeks earlier.

And "a little exposure" for some people can be fatal.

messageRe: Lordship Lane .. North Cross rd. getting back to Normality .
Posted by KidKruger June 17, 02:34PM

yeah I'm high-risk Foxy (as are you), so your little-exposure can do one !

messageRe: Lordship Lane .. North Cross rd. getting back to Normality .
Posted by JohnL June 17, 03:12PM

jimlad48 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I live in hope there has been an outbreak of
> collective sanity after weeks of total
> overeaction, panic and hysteria. Fingers crossed
> we can get on living soon, safe in the knowledge
> that 100% of people born will die, and just get
> the heck on with our lives.

I have no intention of dying yet and that's a few years yet smiling smiley

Everybody else can go out and about - I'll be a late adopter on this.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was june 17, 03:14pm by JohnL.

messageRe: Lordship Lane .. North Cross rd. getting back to Normality .
Posted by DulwichFox June 17, 03:15PM

I've had 12 weeks.. out and about shopping.. Queuing .. travelling on local buses.

Hospital appointments .. blood tests..

Receiving Take away deliveries. Living life.

I must of been near or next to affected people.

If I just stayed at home and totally gave up on life.. Then I might just as well be dead anyway..

Fox

messageRe: Lordship Lane .. North Cross rd. getting back to Normality .
Posted by Sue June 17, 04:19PM

DulwichFox Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've had 12 weeks.. out and about shopping..
> Queuing .. travelling on local buses.
>
> Hospital appointments .. blood tests..
>
> Receiving Take away deliveries. Living life.
>
> I must of been near or next to affected people.
>
> If I just stayed at home and totally gave up on
> life.. Then I might just as well be dead anyway..
>
>
> Fox


You have been crying wolf/fox for what seems like years on here, so I find it extraordinary that you are now deliberately putting yourself at risk.

I suspect that as soon as you show any signs of Covid symptoms, your posts on here will be somewhat less enthusiastic about "I might as well be dead anyway."

Obviously I hope this won't be the case, however you put me in mind of Boris Johnson boasting about shaking hands with hospital patients with the virus, then ending up on a ventilator 😢

In case of any doubt, I don't wish you ill. I just find your attitude very strange ....

Staying at home except for urgent appointments etc does not have to be "totally giving up on life" and in any case it's not for ever (one hopes!)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit was june 17, 04:23pm by Sue.

messageRe: Lordship Lane .. North Cross rd. getting back to Normality .
Posted by Sue June 17, 04:26PM

KidKruger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> yeah I'm high-risk Foxy (as are you), so your
> little-exposure can do one !


So am I, but sadly still got/have it.

Be super-scrupulous with quarantining/washing EVERYTHING that comes into your home, people 😢

Keep safe!

messageRe: Lordship Lane .. North Cross rd. getting back to Normality .
Posted by jimlad48 June 17, 05:39PM

I'm afraid I firmly believe we have significantly overreacted, encouraged by media led hysteria. Back when lockdown began I felt and said it was necessary to have a clear view on when death levels were worth accepting - in the same way that we measure death levels as acceptable for other illnesses like flu (which kills thousands upon thousands each year).

We should have left lockdown weeks ago when it became clear that COVID was as expected overwhelmingly hitting the very elderly (and in most cases it forms just one of multiple symptoms linked on the death certificate, and very rarely kills in isolation), and those who have underlying conditions, many of which are as much lifestyle choices as they are health.

The economic destruction being wrought, the huge damage to childrens education, the sheer damage being done that will take years to resolve for an illness that is essentially natures version of spring cleaning the vulnerable (as it has done since time immemorial) is not worth it.

We've overreacted, we've panicked and frankly we should have got on with normal life weeks ago, rather than trying to protect people already at the end of their lives, because bluntly I don't think the damage this is causing to tens of millions of people is a price worth paying for an extra few weeks of 'life' for great aunty mildred in a care home.

Sorry to sound harsh, but this is not worth the price.

messageRe: Lordship Lane .. North Cross rd. getting back to Normality .
Posted by KidKruger June 17, 06:19PM

There seems to be a distinct shortage of people who've contracted the disease, been on ventilators laid on their stomachs for days or longer, being fed via a tube, who are advocating 'chilling-out', getting on with our lives, or taking it easy on the distancing.
For the life of me (pun intended) I can't figure out why ?

And the struggle to return to 'normal', WTAF is that all about ?! For many people it was shit before, why go back to it, short sightedness could miss an opportunity here for everyone to re-engineer, reset expectations and live a happier life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was june 17, 07:02pm by KidKruger.

messageRe: Lordship Lane .. North Cross rd. getting back to Normality .
Posted by Sue June 17, 06:48PM

What is only just becoming apparent (partly from the King's Zoe symptom survey) is that there are very many people (of all ages, including many young people who were fit and healthy before) who have ongoing, varied and debilitating Covid-19 symptoms which come and go, in some cases for months. Most of them will not have been seen in a hospital, though some have.


If you are doing the Zoe survey and report symptoms, it actually gives links to a Facebook support group.

Jimlad48, I suggest you do some research before posting your rather offensive opinions on here.

And being over seventy and in the vulnerable group for other reasons, I find your assumption that my life is not worth saving repellent, to say the least.

It's a pity this government didn't take the sort of action New Zealand did, then we would probably all be back to normal life by now.

messageRe: Lordship Lane .. North Cross rd. getting back to Normality .
Posted by jimlad48 June 17, 07:19PM

"Jimlad48, I suggest you do some research before posting your rather offensive opinions on here."

I have researched it Sue, and I don't care if you find my suggestions offensive. I find the suggestions that we continue as we are equally offensive.

messageRe: Lordship Lane .. North Cross rd. getting back to Normality .
Posted by Rockets June 17, 07:27PM

JimLad - your comments are ill-judged - a large percentage of those who died would have lived longer had it not been for Covid - many were old and ill but that doesn't mean we should not have tried to protect them.


Sue - I am not sure it is entirely fair comparing the UK to New Zealand in terms of how well a country dealt with Corona-virus - not exactly a level playing field.

For starters, New Zealand has a total population of just 4.8 million (compared to 66 million) and has about 46 people per square mile (compared to around 1,000 people per square mile here). Additionally, New Zealand gets roughly the same number of visitors in a year (3.5m) as the UK does in one month - given this virus was imported it was a lot easier for a country that is a long way from anywhere and not a major international hub to control the outbreak.

messageRe: Lordship Lane .. North Cross rd. getting back to Normality .
Posted by KidKruger June 17, 07:33PM

That's a fair observation of NZ, Rockets.
However, I can't help thinking the reason we are in the situation we are in in the UK is to do with more than just geography !
Which I think may be the point Sue was making, the two Govts have acted worlds apart, which I think has a massive bearing on why we are where we are now.

messageRe: Lordship Lane .. North Cross rd. getting back to Normality .
Posted by caz June 17, 08:25PM

jimlad48 your view that someone like myself and others on here who fall into the vulnerable bracket, whether for reasons of age and / or underlying health issues are expendable fills me with both rage and sadness in equal measures !!!!!!!!!!!

messageRe: Lordship Lane .. North Cross rd. getting back to Normality .
Posted by jimlad48 June 17, 08:59PM

Sorry Caz but I'm afraid we have to be realistic here - those in the at risk bracket need to look out for themselves. If we lockdown tens of millions of people not at risk, then fundamentally we run out of economy to care for those who need it.

Ultimately we accept that about 10-30,000 people per year in the UK are expendable for winter flu, so we need to decide quickly the acceptable figure for how many are expendable for Corona virus so that we can restart the economy to ensure we can afford a health service and social services to support the vulnerable.

If we keep everyone locked up for no good reason, then we're only making things worse in the medium term.

messageRe: Lordship Lane .. North Cross rd. getting back to Normality .
Posted by Sephiroth June 17, 09:03PM

Are people still being parochial

What with this we?

We in Britain?

Or we in the world?

People honestly think the whole world has overreacted?

At the beginning of lockdown many people said “the more successful lockdown is, the more people will say it was an expensive mistake”

And here we are

messageRe: Lordship Lane .. North Cross rd. getting back to Normality .
Posted by johnie June 17, 10:21PM

Jesus Jimlad48, take a look at yourself

messageRe: Lordship Lane .. North Cross rd. getting back to Normality .
Posted by jimlad48 June 17, 10:47PM

I have and I'm a realist and someone who wants this country to have a world class NHS in 10,20,30 years time, which can only be done by sending people back to work, kids back to school and having a very blunt conversation with the nation that points out to people that COVID is horrible, nasty and unpleasant and if you are at risk you may want to stay lying low, but like all other nasty things out there, we accept that it will kill people and that its a personal decision on the risk you want to take.

Sorry, we need to stop pretending hiding indoors now and utterly shafting our future to save people today, many of whom would be dead anyway in a few weeks/months time of the many other health issues they have is a sensible thing to do if this means utterly destroying our chance of a credible functioning health system in years to come.

messageRe: Lordship Lane .. North Cross rd. getting back to Normality .
Posted by DulwichFox June 17, 11:32PM

This country has become Obsessed with the importance of 'The Virus'..

People with Heart Problems... Diabetes ... Asthma ... Cancer ... High Blood Pressure ... at risk from stroke ..
now being unable to get treatment ... or hospital appointments.

Many of us are Sick.. seriously unwell and at MUCH greater risk of serious illness or death than
the actual risk from Covid-19

We need to get a GRIP and get back to a sense of normality otherwise Thousands of people will die
without getting the Virus.

How many people do we want to save. ???

We all know the Sick and especially the Elderly are a huge burden on the Government and the NHS.

When I was 56 and retired .. at a hospital appointment, I was referred to as 'This Elderly gentleman'
Elderly at 56 y/o. ??

Does ANYONE really give damn. I do not think so. The government doesn't

messageRe: Lordship Lane .. North Cross rd. getting back to Normality .
Posted by Sephiroth June 18, 06:37AM

And still people persist with “this country” as if it’s the only one dealing with this virus.

Incredible scenes

messageRe: Lordship Lane .. North Cross rd. getting back to Normality .
Posted by first mate June 18, 07:10AM

Survival of the fittest and all that.

jimlad48 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have and I'm a realist and someone who wants
> this country to have a world class NHS in 10,20,30
> years time, which can only be done by sending
> people back to work, kids back to school and
> having a very blunt conversation with the nation
> that points out to people that COVID is horrible,
> nasty and unpleasant and if you are at risk you
> may want to stay lying low, but like all other
> nasty things out there, we accept that it will
> kill people and that its a personal decision on
> the risk you want to take.
>
> Sorry, we need to stop pretending hiding indoors
> now and utterly shafting our future to save people
> today, many of whom would be dead anyway in a few
> weeks/months time of the many other health issues
> they have is a sensible thing to do if this means
> utterly destroying our chance of a credible
> functioning health system in years to come.

messageRe: Lordship Lane .. North Cross rd. getting back to Normality .
Posted by exdulwicher June 18, 09:18AM

What effect on the economy do you think NOT locking down would have had?

[www.bbc.co.uk]

An extra 470,000 deaths in the UK which would have completely overwhelmed the NHS (and morgues). 470,000 key workers, elderly, vulnerable dying. You reckon the economy would still be functioning fine and we'd all just be carrying on, stiff upper lip, we're British?

There'd be CHAOS. Riots and looting as a result of the massive hoarding that would have been going on, mass absenteeism from work as people took their own decisions (or were off work seriously ill) - you may remember that many companies had already closed up shop, locked down, gone to remote working etc BEFORE the Government finally mandated it. No-one would be "just carrying on", there'd be no normal operations at the NHS (because they'd long since have been overwhelmed and would be taking years longer to recover beck to normal).

The idea that everything would just be fine with the UK just carrying on regardless (while virtually every other country in the world was on lockdown) is just farcical. It's not realism, it's complete utter fantasy.

We had this with the Millenium Bug computer code thing. Thanks to a LOT of very hard work behind the scenes from a lot of computer programmers, nothing happened. (well, almost nothing - in some cases the problem got kicked 50 years down the road by tweaking some 2-digit year codes). That lead to a load of conspiracy theories saying it was all overblown, all a big hoax. It wasn't at all, the preventative measures taken stopped it from being a catastrophe. Without lockdown, we'd be in a far worse place and the economy would still be wrecked for a decade.

messageRe: Lordship Lane .. North Cross rd. getting back to Normality .
Posted by Sephiroth June 18, 09:29AM

everything exdulwicher said

messageRe: Lordship Lane .. North Cross rd. getting back to Normality .
Posted by jimlad48 June 18, 09:30AM

I don't for one second believe the 470K death figure. The science behind it is deeply questionable, there are real concerns over how the figure was reached and the people behind it have a very long track record of crying wolf over previous incidents. How they got listened to or taken seriously again is beyond me.

Meanwhile millions of people face unemployment, possibly on the jobs scrapheap forever, but hey we need to keep that 2m rule in place because great aunty mildred can have a few more weeks of care home existence, even if the price of doing so is utterly screwing our kids and grandkids for decades to come.

messageRe: Lordship Lane .. North Cross rd. getting back to Normality .
Posted by Sephiroth June 18, 10:13AM

Just because you choose not to believe it is neither here nor there Jim

This virus has hammered the entire globe. There isn't some leftie/remainer plot afoot here.

messageRe: Lordship Lane .. North Cross rd. getting back to Normality .
Posted by JohnL June 18, 10:17AM

exdulwicher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We had this with the Millenium Bug computer code
> thing. Thanks to a LOT of very hard work behind
> the scenes from a lot of computer programmers,
> nothing happened.

Yes I remember - even the stuff that was unfixable and binned meant it couldn't go wrong in service and was replaced before NYE1999

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