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closed threadRe: Melbourne grove shopkeeper set-up petition against road closures
Posted by first mate September 14, 06:13PM

redpost,

ďDaily Mail readerĒ such a cheap shot and so unnecessary.

If cycling two abreast slows the flow of traffic, which it may well do if someone slow like me is out cycling with a mate, it probably isnít a good idea. Saying so does not make me or anyone else a petrol head or a Daily Mail reader; it is a view.

In similar vein, I had suggested mobility scooters be allowed into cycle lanes but was told by a pro cycle campaigner that this was a bad idea as it would slow down cyclists. He said mobility scooters should go onto pavements or bus lanes!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was september 14, 06:25pm by first mate.

closed threadRe: Melbourne grove shopkeeper set-up petition against road closures
Posted by redpost September 14, 06:34PM

yes, car drivers very often inconvenience me, the difference is that i'm not sat in a metal box with seatbelts, crush zones and air bags.

As a cyclist this is what i put up with:


* pull out in front forcing me to brake sharply (very common)
* opening door without checking for traffic (not common these days due to education, but a nightmare 20y ago)
* close overtaking at speed on london streets, only for me to overtake them again 200m later at lights/congestion (common)
* driving while on the phone (very common)
* driving while operating a phone (rare-ish)
* speeding (ubiquitous)

Just like the daily mail comments section playbook (no helmets, always jumping red lights, road tax, insurance, riding two abreast etc etc) your comment unintentionally dehumanises cyclists, lumping them all together in one homogenous gang of rule breakers, because if they break the rules then why shouldn't I?


Rockets Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> redpost Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > perhaps you should do some highway profiency
> and
> > read the highway code, there is nothing wrong
> with
> > riding two abreast
> >
> > daily-mail comments like yours (riding two
> > abreast, cylists should pay road tax etc) only
> > serve to give car drivers a bad rap and
> illustrate
> > your ignorance of the law
> >
> >
> >
> > Rockets Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Siduhe Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > I agree. Cyclists are not necessarily
> dangerous
> > to
> > > other road users but many are dangerous to
> > > themselves. I used to cycle to work from
> > Dulwich
> > > to Hammersmith and some of the stunts pulled
> by
> > > other cyclists used to amaze me. As a car
> driver
> > I
> > > respect everyone else's right to use the
> roads
> > and
> > > am mindful of ensuring everyone has space.
> But
> > > sometimes cyclists seem to think they are the
> > only
> > > road users and somehow have more priority
> than
> > > others. A few weeks ago two cyclists wearing
> no
> > > helmets (not Mamils but 20 millennials) were
> > > riding two abreast on the A205 in front of
> > > Alleynian's Rugby club, seemingly taking
> great
> > > pleasure in slowing all traffic to crawling
> > pace.
> > > I understand there is a mindset of we want to
> > use
> > > the road but really...it's why cyclists get
> such
> > a
> > > bad rap.
> > >
> > > The other danger in London are the Boris
> bikes
> > -
> > > it seems by default that people who use these
> > have
> > > zero clue how to either 1) ride a bike 2) any
> > idea
> > > how to remain safe on them 3) have zero road
> > > sense.
> > >
> > > Everyone who cycles should be made to do some
> > sort
> > > of cycling proficiency (as we did at school)
> as
> > > they are a law unto themselves sometimes.
>
> Ha ha, there we go - you illustrate my point
> beautifully...don't you think riding two abreast
> on the A205 might be somewhat, I dunno,
> inconsiderate to other roads users? Just because
> you can doesn't mean you should.
>
> And a correction - I didn't say cyclists should
> pay road tax I said they should be encouraged to
> take cycling proficiency - you went all Daily Mail
> on me and put words into my mouth! winking smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was september 14, 06:35pm by redpost.

closed threadRe: Melbourne grove shopkeeper set-up petition against road closures
Posted by rahrahrah September 14, 07:06PM

People in cars should look over their shoulder at the empty three seater sofa behind them, before complaining cyclists riding two abreast are taking up too much room 🤔



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit was september 14, 07:08pm by rahrahrah.

closed threadRe: Melbourne grove shopkeeper set-up petition against road closures
Posted by redpost September 14, 07:18PM

exactamundo

rangerover sport road area occupied = 9.6m2
mini clubman = 7.5m2
bicycle < 1m2

closed threadRe: Melbourne grove shopkeeper set-up petition against road closures
Posted by Rockets September 14, 07:30PM

When I look over my shoulder in my car I see my children - so please don't paint me with your generalising paint brush!

My point was quite clear (you're choosing to try and pick a fight when there isn't one) that those two cyclists were being inconsiderate to other road users yet you seem to think it was perfectly acceptable. Fair enough we will agree to disagree on that one - but I know I am in the majority though.

closed threadRe: Melbourne grove shopkeeper set-up petition against road closures
Posted by redpost September 14, 08:16PM

And what I am saying is that the OP was delayed once for perhaps (lets say 2 minutes, which perhaps was made up for later) for 2 young lads riding abreast without helmets, failed entirely to rationalise it and instead trots this out as an argument that cyclists take pleasure in delaying motorists and behave as though they have priority on the roads.

closed threadRe: Melbourne grove shopkeeper set-up petition against road closures
Posted by albert September 14, 11:29PM

I live on East Dulwich Grove, the Lordship Lane end. The traffic is much worse. In the morning and in the afternoon it is almost stationary outside my house and backed up to Dulwich hospital and probably beyond. The fumes are awful. My air quality is now dreadful. My children and their friends walk up and down East Dulwich Grove at rush hour. The road is the main route for many children in East Dulwich to travel to Charter North Dulwich, Charter East Dulwich, Jags, Alleyns, Dulwich Hamlet, Dulwich infants, Goose Green. Their air quality on the walk to school has now deteriorated massively. The road has become more dangerous to cross. I've always been pretty laid back about local matters, but this is beyond daft. I've been moaned at about it by one paramedic, local businesses, the keeper of Goose Green school who lives there, and ALL my neighbours on the road. The side streets, Elsie, Derwent and Melbourne are now glorified car parks. No doubt the air quality is much nicer for these roads, and no doubt these residents find life quieter, but for the children who walk to school, for the businesses in the area, for the residents of East Dulwich Grove (many with young children) this is hell. We all want cleaner air, but this is concentrating fumes on two roads, Lordship Lane and East Dulwich Grove. It appears the council and fellow side street residents don't care about people who live on these roads, or have given a thought to the hundreds (yes hundreds) of children who walk down them every day. What on paper seems a solution to noisy campaigners is actually ill thought out and harms those who we should be looking out for most.

closed threadRe: Melbourne grove shopkeeper set-up petition against road closures
Posted by northernmonkey September 15, 07:53AM

Whilst I agree that for the first couple of days the traffic on East Dulwich Grove was horrible, and outside the normal levels for that road, the picture being painted by the poster above simply isnít true of the days since, in fact around school times the traffic has been lower than normal.

It is entirely possible that living right up next to the junction the above poster has a different impression but at that stretch, one car unloading for example has a huge impact. For an example see below:

[twitter.com]

closed threadRe: Melbourne grove shopkeeper set-up petition against road closures
Posted by Dulwichgirl82 September 15, 08:43AM

What I donít understand is those that live on the closed roads claim traffic isnít worse on the roads itís been diverted to, however this doesnít really make sense as either:
1) they believe the traffic that previously used their roads (Apparently bad) has entirely disappeared in the last 2 weeks which seems incredibly unlikely or
2) there wasnít that much traffic on their roads anyway and hence why has it been closed?

I feel for those living on east dulwich grove and think they are most likely to know what the traffic changes are like as they will experience it the most. All the data is currently anecdotal but surely those who are there the most have the best idea
And as I mentioned before lordship lane now has increased traffic which I think will be a detriment to the whole area sadly as will the traffic around goose green.
I hope it reduces down but Iím not convinced the diversion creates enough inconvenience to drivers to discourage the journeys at the moment. Iím aware they canít close east dulwich grove due to the buses but could they make part of it bus only or something. I think a civil engineer would be best placed to try and look at traffic reduction measures without the interests of individual roads coming into play.
albert Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I live on East Dulwich Grove, the Lordship Lane
> end. The traffic is much worse. In the morning
> and in the afternoon it is almost stationary
> outside my house and backed up to Dulwich hospital
> and probably beyond. The fumes are awful. My air
> quality is now dreadful. My children and their
> friends walk up and down East Dulwich Grove at
> rush hour. The road is the main route for many
> children in East Dulwich to travel to Charter
> North Dulwich, Charter East Dulwich, Jags,
> Alleyns, Dulwich Hamlet, Dulwich infants, Goose
> Green. Their air quality on the walk to school
> has now deteriorated massively. The road has
> become more dangerous to cross. I've always been
> pretty laid back about local matters, but this is
> beyond daft. I've been moaned at about it by one
> paramedic, local businesses, the keeper of Goose
> Green school who lives there, and ALL my
> neighbours on the road. The side streets, Elsie,
> Derwent and Melbourne are now glorified car parks.
> No doubt the air quality is much nicer for these
> roads, and no doubt these residents find life
> quieter, but for the children who walk to school,
> for the businesses in the area, for the residents
> of East Dulwich Grove (many with young children)
> this is hell. We all want cleaner air, but this
> is concentrating fumes on two roads, Lordship Lane
> and East Dulwich Grove. It appears the council
> and fellow side street residents don't care about
> people who live on these roads, or have given a
> thought to the hundreds (yes hundreds) of children
> who walk down them every day. What on paper seems
> a solution to noisy campaigners is actually ill
> thought out and harms those who we should be
> looking out for most.

closed threadRe: Melbourne grove shopkeeper set-up petition against road closures
Posted by rahrahrah September 15, 09:36AM

Dulwichgirl82 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What I donít understand is those that live on the
> closed roads claim traffic isnít worse on the
> roads itís been diverted to, however this doesnít
> really make sense as either:
> 1) they believe the traffic that previously used
> their roads (Apparently bad) has entirely
> disappeared in the last 2 weeks which seems
> incredibly unlikely or
> 2) there wasnít that much traffic on their roads
> anyway and hence why has it been closed?

Or some people may have switched to walking / cycling (for example, instead of dropping a partner off at the station in the car, they might now decide to walk instead). If you both make it both less convenient to drive and more pleasant to walk / cycle, then you will see some behaviour change. Many car journeys in London are very short.

closed threadRe: Melbourne grove shopkeeper set-up petition against road closures
Posted by Serena2012 September 15, 09:43AM

As a resident of EDG, I strongly refute the claim that traffic volume on the Northern section of EDG is lower than normal at school drop off and pick up. This is simply not the case. Moreover, this section of road is currently being subjected to idling traffic at lunchtime; and into evening in circumstances where this did not happen previously. Both Saturdays since the most recent swathe of road closures were implemented have seen 9 hours of idling traffic outside our home between 10am and 7pm. Put simply it is so much worse than it was previously.

I agree with the notion that this stretch of road is too narrow for all the traffic on it, and have personally seen buses get stuck. The fundamental issue is that the junction of Lordship Lane and EDG, as well as the Goose Green roundabout cannot cope with the volume of traffic they are currently experiencing, and this (whilst eminently predictable) is leading to significant tailbacks. The narrowness of the road, and the fact that two sizeable vehicles cannot pass each other without one stopping to let the other go past is not helping. Whilst the recent closures of Melbourne North et al has made the problem exponentially worse, the closure of Melbourne South and the roads in the Village have also had a significant knock on impact.

Delivery drivers parking on this section of road is simply the tip of the iceberg. Banning them completely is likely to be impractical (there will invariably be furniture deliveries; builders merchants; ambulances etc where parking anywhere other than immediately outside a residential property is impractical, and as others have commented, the lack of suitable delivery spots on the final stretch of Lordship Lane leading up to Grove Vale is also an issue), and whilst it is no doubt something the council should look into, the more fundamental need is an urgent review of the Lordship Lane/ EDG junction which is a fatal accident waiting to happen. Until this is fixed, my own view is that all the roads in the vicinity ought to be reopened. It is a ticking timebomb otherwise.


northernmonkey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Whilst I agree that for the first couple of days
> the traffic on East Dulwich Grove was horrible,
> and outside the normal levels for that road, the
> picture being painted by the poster above simply
> isnít true of the days since, in fact around
> school times the traffic has been lower than
> normal.
>
> It is entirely possible that living right up next
> to the junction the above poster has a different
> impression but at that stretch, one car unloading
> for example has a huge impact. For an example see
> below:
>
> [twitter.com]
> 342302720?s=12



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit was september 15, 09:55am by Serena2012.

closed threadRe: Melbourne grove shopkeeper set-up petition against road closures
Posted by Dogkennelhillbilly September 15, 11:56AM

" I think a civil engineer would be best placed to try and look at traffic reduction measures without the interests of individual roads coming into play. "

That's exactly what has happened and has been happening for many years!

closed threadRe: Melbourne grove shopkeeper set-up petition against road closures
Posted by northernmonkey September 15, 12:42PM

Agree that the crossing needs attention. But whatever is put in will mean cars stopping outside your house as you live at the junction of 2 ĎAíroads. Will mean that every time the pedestrian crossing is used cars will have to stop. Whatís to be done then?


Serena2012 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As a resident of EDG, I strongly refute the claim
> that traffic volume on the Northern section of EDG
> is lower than normal at school drop off and pick
> up. This is simply not the case. Moreover, this
> section of road is currently being subjected to
> idling traffic at lunchtime; and into evening in
> circumstances where this did not happen
> previously. Both Saturdays since the most recent
> swathe of road closures were implemented have seen
> 9 hours of idling traffic outside our home between
> 10am and 7pm. Put simply it is so much worse than
> it was previously.
>
> I agree with the notion that this stretch of road
> is too narrow for all the traffic on it, and have
> personally seen buses get stuck. The fundamental
> issue is that the junction of Lordship Lane and
> EDG, as well as the Goose Green roundabout cannot
> cope with the volume of traffic they are currently
> experiencing, and this (whilst eminently
> predictable) is leading to significant tailbacks.
> The narrowness of the road, and the fact that two
> sizeable vehicles cannot pass each other without
> one stopping to let the other go past is not
> helping. Whilst the recent closures of Melbourne
> North et al has made the problem exponentially
> worse, the closure of Melbourne South and the
> roads in the Village have also had a significant
> knock on impact.
>
> Delivery drivers parking on this section of road
> is simply the tip of the iceberg. Banning them
> completely is likely to be impractical (there will
> invariably be furniture deliveries; builders
> merchants; ambulances etc where parking anywhere
> other than immediately outside a residential
> property is impractical, and as others have
> commented, the lack of suitable delivery spots on
> the final stretch of Lordship Lane leading up to
> Grove Vale is also an issue), and whilst it is no
> doubt something the council should look into, the
> more fundamental need is an urgent review of the
> Lordship Lane/ EDG junction which is a fatal
> accident waiting to happen. Until this is fixed,
> my own view is that all the roads in the vicinity
> ought to be reopened. It is a ticking timebomb
> otherwise.
>
>
> northernmonkey Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Whilst I agree that for the first couple of
> days
> > the traffic on East Dulwich Grove was horrible,
> > and outside the normal levels for that road,
> the
> > picture being painted by the poster above
> simply
> > isnít true of the days since, in fact around
> > school times the traffic has been lower than
> > normal.
> >
> > It is entirely possible that living right up
> next
> > to the junction the above poster has a
> different
> > impression but at that stretch, one car
> unloading
> > for example has a huge impact. For an example
> see
> > below:
> >
> >
> [twitter.com]
>
> > 342302720?s=12

closed threadRe: Melbourne grove shopkeeper set-up petition against road closures
Posted by Serena2012 September 15, 02:18PM

Northernmonkey to address your comments:

1. I do not live at the junction of two A roads, in fact, our house is quite a distance from the junction, and the only reason we are currently experiencing idling traffic is because the volume of traffic caused by the closures elsewhere is overwhelming for this stretch of road. In case you hadnít noticed, Melbourne Grove, Derwent and Elsie also have junctions with two A roads. All these closures have done is to take the problems previously experienced at some of those junctions, particularly the Melbourne/ EDG junction and shoved it down the road, where the infrastructure cannot cope. There is a reason buses did not go down this section of EDG historically and went down Melbourne instead, and that is because this stretch of road is very very narrow.

2. What needs to happen therefore is that rather than bunging planters in and hoping for the best, which clearly isnít working, and is inevitably significantly increasing air pollution, there should be a detailed consideration of all the options. This includes school streets alone, and one way streets. Expecting a narrow stretch of EDG to cope with all the additional traffic is naive, and quite frankly dangerous.

closed threadRe: Melbourne grove shopkeeper set-up petition against road closures
Posted by Pugwash September 15, 06:10PM

Hubby cycled most of his life until about 4 years ago when his health deteriorated through arthritis.

He sometimes rode from Tulse Hill to Cheshunt in Hertfordshire as he could not afford public transport (was unemployed at the time)- he frequently complained about other cyclists being a danger to themselves and other road users. He has always argued that cyclists should pay some form of road tax. Bike frames could have registration numbers etched on their frames. Also have a form of insurance.

As a younger and fitter person, I used to cycle from East Dulwich to Westminster, but having poor balance, I had the bike fitted with wing mirrors on both handles so I could see traffic behind me.

Many years ago, my aunt (in her late 60s) was knocked down by a youth (around 12- 15 years of age) cycling on the pavement outside the now Sainsbury's Local. She fractured her hip and throughout the rest of her life was in pain. The young man rode off when he realised that many pedestrians had witnessed the accident. Police were involved but never found the culprit.

closed threadRe: Melbourne grove shopkeeper set-up petition against road closures
Posted by Rockets September 15, 06:26PM

Serena2012 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Northernmonkey to address your comments:
>
> 1. I do not live at the junction of two A roads,
> in fact, our house is quite a distance from the
> junction, and the only reason we are currently
> experiencing idling traffic is because the volume
> of traffic caused by the closures elsewhere is
> overwhelming for this stretch of road. In case you
> hadnít noticed, Melbourne Grove, Derwent and Elsie
> also have junctions with two A roads. All these
> closures have done is to take the problems
> previously experienced at some of those junctions,
> particularly the Melbourne/ EDG junction and
> shoved it down the road, where the infrastructure
> cannot cope. There is a reason buses did not go
> down this section of EDG historically and went
> down Melbourne instead, and that is because this
> stretch of road is very very narrow.
>
> 2. What needs to happen therefore is that rather
> than bunging planters in and hoping for the best,
> which clearly isnít working, and is inevitably
> significantly increasing air pollution, there
> should be a detailed consideration of all the
> options. This includes school streets alone, and
> one way streets. Expecting a narrow stretch of EDG
> to cope with all the additional traffic is naive,
> and quite frankly dangerous.

Serena2012 - unfortunately what many of us predicted would happen is happening. The council has dome zero analysis of the impact of these closures on the remaining open roads. The combination of the DV closure and Melbourne Grove etc is putting unmanageable pressure on East Dulwich Grove.

Of course, when the council closures off Dulwich Village completely during certain hours of the day you may get some relief. But again, that traffic is going to have to go somewhere and the burden will likely be shouldered by Lordship Lane (which again today was tailing back to passed the M&S heading towards the Goose Green roundabout).

Of course any relief from that may be tempered by the closures/restriction of access to Townley, Burbage etc. I suspect the Townley closure will force more and more traffic down EDG. I am afraid it could be about to get a hell of a lot worse.

Instead of championing, and actively lobbying for, these closures our local councillors should have been assessing the likely impact of the closures on their constituents and fighting them - especially the DV closures which I think are the root cause of the majority of problems people are experiencing now. There has been a complete dereliction of duty from them - preferring to tow the party line over their constituents.

closed threadRe: Melbourne grove shopkeeper set-up petition against road closures
Posted by chichirara September 16, 10:41AM

At a time when the shops in East Dulwich are obviously worried about our futures, implementing road closures and parking zones is not helpful. I understand the need to lessen car use and encourage people to walk/ cycle. But a lot of business does come from people driving for various reasons. I have a small vintage shop in Upland Road and when ever the road has been closed for various works etc thereís always a drop in footfall.

closed threadRe: Melbourne grove shopkeeper set-up petition against road closures
Posted by Rockets September 17, 08:01PM

I am shocked at how bad the traffic is on Lordship Lane right now - it's scary how bad things have got so quickly following the implementation of the closures - it's obvious the EDG/LL junction and Goose Green roundabout cannot handle the numbers of extra cars being forced through them.

The problem is the council doesn't care about Lordship Lane, in fact I think a lot of them actually despise it.

closed threadRe: Melbourne grove shopkeeper set-up petition against road closures
Posted by Serena2012 September 17, 08:25PM

Rockets Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am shocked at how bad the traffic is on Lordship
> Lane right now - it's scary how bad things have
> got so quickly following the implementation of the
> closures - it's obvious the EDG/LL junction and
> Goose Green roundabout cannot handle the numbers
> of extra cars being forced through them.
>
> The problem is the council doesn't care about
> Lordship Lane, in fact I think a lot of them
> actually despise it.

Bus diversions are still operative down EDG even though Dog Kennel Hill has reopened, whilst they work on the wall. EDG has been bumper to bumper from the junction of LL to Townley going South practically all day. Iíve walked it four times (whilst doing the nursery run), and it was utterly hideous. So many schoolchildren, particularly as years 10 and 11 of Charter now enter from EDG and so many noxious fumes.

This is a prime example of how ill thought through these closures are. There will be multiple times a year when one of the A roads in the area is closed for one reason or another. The closure of all viable alternatives other than roads that are already beyond capacity is beyond idiotic.

Southwark have taken money allocated as a result of one public health crisis and created another public health crisis right on their doorstep. You honestly couldnít make this stuff up.

The number of flagrant breaches of the Highway Code I witnessed on EDG today were also through the roof. Approximately 10 adult cyclists (unaccompanied by minors), cycling on the pavement. A three point turn by a frustrated driver to turn around in the middle of a traffic jam, whilst a bus hurtled towards him; a lorry reversing down the road. The list goes on.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit was september 17, 08:29pm by Serena2012.

closed threadRe: Melbourne grove shopkeeper set-up petition against road closures
Posted by dulwichfolk September 17, 08:57PM

Council will probably survey the residents at the top of dog kennel hill whoíll say it was quiet today and use it justify closing the top of dog kennel hill permanently!

closed threadRe: Melbourne grove shopkeeper set-up petition against road closures
Posted by thebestnameshavegone September 18, 08:09AM

Rockets Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am shocked at how bad the traffic is on Lordship
> Lane right now - it's scary how bad things have
> got so quickly following the implementation of the
> closures - it's obvious the EDG/LL junction and
> Goose Green roundabout cannot handle the numbers
> of extra cars being forced through them.
>
> The problem is the council doesn't care about
> Lordship Lane, in fact I think a lot of them
> actually despise it.

Presumably you were driving through on another essential journey with your kids, and definitely not contributing to the traffic volume

closed threadRe: Melbourne grove shopkeeper set-up petition against road closures
Posted by Rockets September 18, 08:19AM

thebestnameshavegone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rockets Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I am shocked at how bad the traffic is on
> Lordship
> > Lane right now - it's scary how bad things have
> > got so quickly following the implementation of
> the
> > closures - it's obvious the EDG/LL junction and
> > Goose Green roundabout cannot handle the
> numbers
> > of extra cars being forced through them.
> >
> > The problem is the council doesn't care about
> > Lordship Lane, in fact I think a lot of them
> > actually despise it.
>
> Presumably you were driving through on another
> essential journey with your kids, and definitely
> not contributing to the traffic volume


No, my wife and I had walked up through Sydenham Woods, to the Rosendale for lunch (taking advantage of the extended Eat Out to Help Out) and then back through the village and along East Dulwich Grove to go to M&S. It was the same walk that I noticed all the parking tickets on the cars on EDG.

I would be careful jumping to conclusions in future....

closed threadRe: Melbourne grove shopkeeper set-up petition against road closures
Posted by Metallic September 18, 09:33AM

EDguy89 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> macutd Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > it's not a "rat run" it's just a street in East
> > Dulwich that enables people to get about
> without
> > having to clog up the roads that are left in a
> > dangerous and polluting way.
>
> It absolutely was a rat run. I've been living on
> the southern side of Melbourne Grove since 2016
> and it was used constantly as a way for people to
> bypass LL.
>
> Often times people would speed by simply because
> they could. The difference in the amount of
> traffic on this end has been like day and night.
It is a road from A to B. Like nearly all others, it is a road used by everyone probably since the place was created. But nimbyism is actually alive and well and created for a few people at the expense of the population. Like my road. We never asked for what we are about to get.
Has anyone ever asked or leafletted properly and followed that up? No.

closed threadRe: Melbourne grove shopkeeper set-up petition against road closures
Posted by thebestnameshavegone September 18, 01:09PM

I don't remember being consulted about all the people being able to store 2 tons of their private property for free at the sides of the roads, but here we are.

Has anyone ever asked or leafletted properly and followed that up? No.

closed threadRe: Melbourne grove shopkeeper set-up petition against road closures
Posted by Rockets September 18, 01:37PM

thebestnameshavegone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't remember being consulted about all the
> people being able to store 2 tons of their private
> property for free at the sides of the roads, but
> here we are.
>
> Has anyone ever asked or leafletted properly and
> followed that up? No.

I am not entirely sure what your point is here - parked cars weren't suddenly dropped in overnight - people have been parking cars on roads for lifetimes - so no real need for a consultation on that as nothing has changed in that regard.

Went down to Lordship Lane again today (I walked, just in case you are about to suggest I drove a car!) and once again it was tailing back and now Matham Grove has a constant queue of traffic as cars try to find a way around the EDG junction.

It's an utter mess that the council needs to fix.
These changes are not going well

closed threadRe: Melbourne grove shopkeeper set-up petition against road closures
Posted by ED - NAGAIUTB September 18, 01:46PM

thebestnameshavegone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't remember being consulted about all the
> people being able to store 2 tons of their private
> property for free at the sides of the roads, but
> here we are.
>
> Has anyone ever asked or leafletted properly and
> followed that up? No.

Itís paid for by taxes that we all pay and drivers especially so.

For free? Thatís your most cretinous one yet.

closed threadRe: Melbourne grove shopkeeper set-up petition against road closures
Posted by Spartacus September 18, 02:47PM

thebestnameshavegone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't remember being consulted about all the
> people being able to store 2 tons of their private
> property for free at the sides of the roads, but
> here we are.
>
> Has anyone ever asked or leafletted properly and
> followed that up? No.


As the car was invented in 1886 , I'm not surprised you can't remember being consulted as senility possible accounts for the lack of memory (looking good for a 134 Year old I have to add !)

closed threadRe: Melbourne grove shopkeeper set-up petition against road closures
Posted by TheCropolite September 18, 03:04PM

Can people just stop driving their cars for absolutely no bloody reason so we can all stop arguing on here? Thereís about 50 threads of the same old twoddle being blurted out by the same old people.
Edit: too much traffic=too many cars. Simply as that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was september 18, 03:05pm by TheCropolite.

closed threadRe: Melbourne grove shopkeeper set-up petition against road closures
Posted by Abe_froeman September 18, 03:45PM

It's not even safe to cycle these roads any more though!

I walked up Calton Avenue about half an hour ago and it was fulthy with pollution due to being backed up with cars nearly all the way from Townley road down to so-called Dulwich Square. Nothing could get out because of the queue on Townley Road heading to EDG.

closed threadRe: Melbourne grove shopkeeper set-up petition against road closures
Posted by Spartacus September 18, 03:59PM

TheCropolite Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can people just stop driving their cars for
> absolutely no bloody reason so we can all stop
> arguing on here? Thereís about 50 threads of the
> same old twoddle being blurted out by the same old
> people.
> Edit: too much traffic=too many cars. Simply as
> that.

How absolutely arrogant and inflammatory is that statement?

It's akin to "can everyone stop cycling and walking so cars can rule the roads".

The reason there are so many discussions is because it has really divided opinion so needs to be discussed to come to a consensus.

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